HD DVD a lot cheaper - not really

[Canada]

As of August 24 2007 HD DVD is not that much cheaper than Blu Ray equipment. Case in point this is how things stack up.

Toshiba HDA20 $499 2.0 Analog Audio 1080P
Sony PS3 $550 2.0 Analog Audio 1080P
Samsung BDP 1200 is $599 5.1 analog Audio 1080P

They were saying on the forum rules you can't go on and on about how when the HD DVD players become really cheap the HD DVD is going to slaughter Blu Ray. Oh I guess I just broke the forum rules. But wait what good are cheap players when Blu Ray has more exclusive titles like.

Sin City
The Rock
Cars
Pirates of the Carribean
Casino Royal (I know that's old)
The Spiderman Trilogy
Black Hawk Down
The Simpsons movie
Die Hard
Master and Commander

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14492 This will get you to another post I did that has way more releases than I mentioned here.

[Mr.Neutral]

Just to use real world prices that many people would pay:

HD-A20 = $339.95
PS3 = $499
BDP 1200 = $483.88

So there is over $100 difference in all cases above between HD DVD and Blu-ray. The biggest difference however is the entry level. People can get in on the bottom floor with the HD-A2 for $238.88. For someone just interested in getting more out of their High Def TV, its certainly an attractive price.

Factor in 5 movies with any of the players too and their equivalent price drops by about $100.

Price is definetely a factor for some. And I see the A2 being at such a low price as being a good thing for blu-ray. Someone decides to not invest much since things are still uncertain. They buy the A2. They see the benefits of HD media. They now no longer like to watch DVD, yet there are a whole lot of movies out there they way to watch. So, what do they do? They buy a blu-ray player. That's to a lesser extent exactly what I did.

[jw]

yes but I also notice that the HDDVD movies are about 5.00 higher than the same title on blu-ray .

[erowe83]

What people dont realize is the average consumer doesnt know what the hell 1080i or 1080p is. They see the $240 dollar HD-Dvd player next to the $500 dollar Blu-ray player and think wow they are both hd but the Hd-dvd player is half the price.

That is what happens with the average consumer. Obviously judging from the sales numbers it really doesnt matter though.

[Klaus]

I know entry level HDTV equipment is quickly coming down in price. But I don't really see the consumer that buys a $1000-$1600 full HDTV trying to save a buck on their HDM choice. Maybe that's why Ultimate electronics reported higher sales of stand alone Blu-Ray players.

When I bought my first HDTV in 2004 I remember spending $400 on a DVD player. I picked up another HDTV last fall and remember trying to find a DVD player over $100 at BB and CC because the $50 ones just didn't seem expensive enough.......

[BigB88]

Originally Posted by erowe83

What people dont realize is the average consumer doesnt know what the hell 1080i or 1080p is. They see the $240 dollar HD-Dvd player next to the $500 dollar Blu-ray player and think wow they are both hd but the Hd-dvd player is half the price.

That is what happens with the average consumer. Obviously judging from the sales numbers it really doesnt matter though.

If they don't know the difference between 1080i and 1080p, how do they even know if they have a display capable of 1080p? The trick here is that BD is price competitive if the consumer has a 1080p display, if not they are no longer price competitive because the 1080i v 1080p differential is moot. I don't think the average consumer worried about a couple of hundred bucks is going to have a 1080p display, hence they would lean towards the cheapest player possible, which at present is HD-DVD. BluRay needs to lower their prices, their player prices are clearly too high. The MSRP of a 1080p capable bluray player is about $499 or more and the PS3 MSRP is $599? How is this possible? Sony's price structure is out of whack.

[erowe83]

Originally Posted by BigB88

If they don't know the difference between 1080i and 1080p, how do they even know if they have a display capable of 1080p? The trick here is that BD is price competitive if the consumer has a 1080p display, if not they are no longer price competitive because the 1080i v 1080p differential is moot. I don't think the average consumer worried about a couple of hundred bucks is going to have a 1080p display, hence they would lean towards the cheapest player possible, which at present is HD-DVD. BluRay needs to lower their prices, their player prices are clearly too high. The MSRP of a 1080p capable bluray player is about $499 or more and the PS3 MSRP is $599? How is this possible? Sony's price structure is out of whack.

They dont! Most people dont even know if there set is 720p or 1080i or 1080p. Its crazy I know! but this is a fact.

[TyrantSilkey]

To be quite honest. Most consumers won't notice the difference between 1080i and 1080p. If you do a double blind test between the two with the same tv with different input sources, or a 1080i only tv vs a 1080p tv of comparable quality, contrast ratio and response time (ie: not comparing a POS $600 tv to a $3,000 one) the difference is pretty much moot. I've seen 1080i plasma screens which completely blow away any 1080p tv in the store at best buy due to the vivid richness of the colors and amazing contrast ratio.
When the consumer is standing there looking at a 1080p 50" screen and a 1080i screen of the same size and they look identical, but the 1080p is $500-1,000 more, it's not a tough decision to make.

[E-Dogg]

Originally Posted by erowe83

They dont! Most people dont even know if there set is 720p or 1080i or 1080p. Its crazy I know! but this is a fact.

My tia actually didn't know the difference and I had to steer her in the right direction and she purchased a 1080p lcd. I plan on buying her a blu-ray player this X-mas so she can start her library as well.

[Mr.Neutral]

Originally Posted by erowe83

What people dont realize is the average consumer doesnt know what the hell 1080i or 1080p is. They see the $240 dollar HD-Dvd player next to the $500 dollar Blu-ray player and think wow they are both hd but the Hd-dvd player is half the price.

That is what happens with the average consumer. Obviously judging from the sales numbers it really doesnt matter though.

Do you really think the "average consumer" is even considering buying these yet? Heck no! We're still in the very early stages. Only average consumers that likely have a player are those with a PS3.

Originally Posted by jwbbud

yes but I also notice that the HDDVD movies are about 5.00 higher than the same title on blu-ray

Only ones that are $5 more are the Combo's. And I think there are fewer and fewer of these being released now.

[spam.curitiba]

Originally Posted by Mr.Neutral

Do you really think the "average consumer" is even considering buying these yet? Heck no! We're still in the very early stages. Only average consumers that likely have a player are those with a PS3.



Only ones that are $5 more are the Combo's. And I think there are fewer and fewer of these being released now.

even on the non-combo ones. I have seen some that weren't be about 2 to 3 dollars more than the blu-ray ones.

[scott1256ca]

I think he is posting Canadian prices. We don't have that many online places to buy from, so the discounts aren't the same as the U.S. A quick check did turn up one HD A2 at $399, though.

[GasCat]

Originally Posted by erowe83

What people dont realize is the average consumer doesnt know what the hell 1080i or 1080p is. They see the $240 dollar HD-Dvd player next to the $500 dollar Blu-ray player and think wow they are both hd but the Hd-dvd player is half the price.

That is what happens with the average consumer. Obviously judging from the sales numbers it really doesnt matter though.

You're right it doesn't matter.

They bought a HDTV and possibly a home theatre system. What's a conservative price for those? You decide. Now add in the HD player's price difference. How much of a percentage difference is that? I purchased a HDTV because it was functionally the better choice. I paid a premium for that. The same thing with Blu-Ray. It was a part of my purchasing decision.Should I stay with the PS2? No, I went with the PS3.

A two hundred dollar difference in purchase price is not the same as it was 20 years ago or even 10. We are a culture which buys water even though it is free. The two things holding most people back from HD players are misinformation and uncertainty. We need a winner.

Twenty years:
"In 2006, $200.00 from 1986 is worth:
$367.88 using the Consumer Price Index
$327.21 using the GDP deflator
$0.00 using the value of consumer bundle
$369.55 using the unskilled wage
$474.27 using the nominal GDP per capita
$591.32 using the relative share of GDP "

Ten years:
"In 2006, $200.00 from 1996 is worth:
$256.98 using the Consumer Price Index
$248.42 using the GDP deflator
$0.00 using the value of consumer bundle
$269.84 using the unskilled wage
$303.76 using the nominal GDP per capita
$337.59 using the relative share of GDP"
http://www.measuringworth.com/calcul...are/result.php

[davidPS3]

Originally Posted by spam.curitiba

even on the non-combo ones. I have seen some that weren't be about 2 to 3 dollars more than the blu-ray ones.

Just got my Circuit City Ad in the mail today. They have Blu Ray Movies at $29.99 and HD-DVD Movies at $34.99. The HD-DVD's are combo's. As someone mentioned earlier, they still have Blades of Glory listed as coming to Blu Ray.

They also have 4 HD-DVD's pictured and 1 Blu Ray. I can tell you here in the NW, the CC have almost twice the amount of space on the shelfs for HD-DVD as each title has it's own row, vs Blu Ray movies and lined up and combined by letter. I travel all over the state for work, it is the same pretty much everywhere here.

[Musashi]

The average customer may not know about 1080i vs p, but they will see a wall full of movies and think about which ones they want and what the format is.

The real price of getting either format, for most people, is the price of the HDTV itself. With ppl on hi-def forums like this one, HDTV is generally assumed.

[lch]

most people don't even know there is such a thing as 720p 1080i/p.
when they buy, they will just see x brand 40" lcd at x price which is cheaper than y brand 40" lcd at y price. even the x brand 40" is just SD and y brand is HD, they buy x brand.

[Smackos]

Unfortunately most consumers don't know the difference between owning a HD tv and watching they're bog standard cable running through it to actually having an HD source being piped through. I get more frustrated listening to people swear they've got HD at home when all they're doing it sticking 480i through it or at best an upscaling cheapo dvd player.. it pi$$e$ me off

[raginranger]

dude, try going to your grandparents house and they have a 50 inch 1080p panasonic plasma tv, but all they have is regular cable and a VCR. that is my life man, that is my life, lol

[russ]

The way that this technology is going to get into homes is basically going to have to be by sneaking it in. For the average, uneducated {on the technicals} consumer, you sneak an HDTV into their house by selling them on the fact that "yeah this flat panel LCD is so light and sleek and compact, it will look great in your living room and will let you get rid of that big, bulky tv." Even after they get their HDTV installed, as long as their components will plug into it, they will probably not care that cable or dvds "look a little weird ". But when manufacturers stop producing dvd players, and then dvds, and the consumer must upgrade, they will. These people aren't going to care so much about "i"s and "p"s and "uncompressed PCM"s. They are going to care about getting Spider-man 7 for their kid, and the newest special collector's edition of Titanic for the wife, and the newest special collector's edition of Die Hard for the husband. If they have to buy a blu-ray player to get those, so be it. If they have to buy an hd-dvd player to get them, so be it. If they have to get some kind of player, that is what they will do.