mythos ST speakers setup question

[Gujjuraja]

Hey guys i am not very tech savvy when it comes to speakers. thinking of purchasing two mythos st speakers with built in subs. Question is that what kind of receiver would i need to drive these spearks properly and what kind of wiring would i be needing, plus i am going to removing my sony 1000w 5.1 surround sound system, so would i be able to take those speakers and use it along with the two mythos ST to make it a decent 7.1 sytem. you replies would be really appreciated.
Thank you

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Gujjuraja

Hey guys i am not very tech savvy when it comes to speakers. thinking of purchasing two mythos st speakers with built in subs. Question is that what kind of receiver would i need to drive these spearks properly and what kind of wiring would i be needing, plus i am going to removing my sony 1000w 5.1 surround sound system, so would i be able to take those speakers and use it along with the two mythos ST to make it a decent 7.1 sytem. you replies would be really appreciated.
Thank you

I have the ST's, and they're terrific speakers. Mine are pushed by the Pioneer Elite 84THX, with 140 watts per channel at 8 ohms output, perfect for the ST's (and the rest of the Definitive Mythos line I use for surrounds and rears). A couple of warnings, though:

1. The ST subs are not room-rumbling units. They're just not that powerful. You can use a splitter for your sub output, and fire them up as straight subs, but the better option is to use them as full range speakers - they produce absolutely clean subwoofer sound, but not at huge volume. They have a relatively small amplifer for each speaker, pushing an active sub driver and a passive radiator - a superb design, and very fast - but volume is not the greatest, unless you're in a small space. The regular drivers play VERY loud and clean with sufficient power - use them as full range units, if possible.

2. You do need plenty of clean power. The Pioneer 91, 92, and 94 series are all sufficient (the lowest is rated at 110 watts RMS at 8 ohms) and are the cleanest units I've heard. Any powerful receiver will work, however; Onkyo and Yamaha will deliver just fine, but may not do justice to the ST's for pure clarity of sound. Get the strongest unit you can afford.

3. Get a dedicated sub, if you can. Good ones can be found for $400 to $600; if you can't do this now, you can use the ST's, but don't overdrive them to get the sub levels you want - you'll sacrifice sound clarity, and I haven't heard anything as clear as the Definitive line until you're paying at least twice as much.

Hope this helps...

[talbers23]

I know this thread is a bit older but I'm hoping for some help with these speakers. I'm very close to buying a pair of mythos st for my mains and a mythos ten for my center. I already have a def tech supercube reference for a sub so my question would be how would I hook it up? I know the sub will produce bass much lower and louder then the towers. I dont plan on running sub cables to the speakers so how would they react with only speaker wire running to them. I use a denon 3808 for a receiver and one thought I have would be to set the towers as small and cross them over at 40hz and let the sub handle the rest. What would the difference be if I did that or let the towers set as full range? I know the speakers are rated to do 14hz but are only work well down to 35hz. I've wasted hours looking for an answer to these questions but cant find anything on it because the system is always reviewed without a sub. Any help will be much appreciated.

[Big Daddy]

The Def Tech Mythos speakers are beautiful with excellent sound. The built-in subs are not really made to be used as subwoofers. They are included to give the speakers low frequency extension in order to get great-sounding full-range tower speakers. Your best option is to run them as part of your front speakers and use an external subwoofer for HT applications. Definitive Technology and many other companies make great subwoofers.

The best way to connect them is summarized below:

Connection with No External Subwoofer

• Use a Y adapter (1 male, 2 female) and connect it to the LFE out (sub out or sub pre-out) on the back of the receiver.
• Run a set of RCA cables from the Y adapter to the sub-in on the back of the speakers.
• Run a set of speaker wires from the back of the receiver to the speaker inputs for the midrange/tweeters.
• Don't forget to plug them in.
• Adjust the subwoofer levels to account for placement, room interaction, and your room and preference.
• Run the calibration program.
• According to Def Tech, the LFE signal is mixed with the low frequency of the front channels and are played through the built-in subwoofers.
• In the receiver's menu, set the front speakers to Large and the subwoofer to Yes.

Connection with An External Subwoofer

• Run a set of good quality 12 gauge speaker wires from the back of the receiver for the front channels to the inputs on the back of the speakers.
• Run a relatively long subwoofer cable from the LFE output (sub out or sub pre-out) on the back of the receiver to the back of the subwoofer.
• Plug them in.
• Experiment with the position of the subwoofer to get the best bass response.
• Run the calibration program.
• With this type of connection, the speakers will become full-range front speaker and LFE signal and the redirected bass from the center and surround speakers will play through the external subwoofer.

[rded]

BD has done it again

[talbers23]

Thank you for the help! Would you set the receiver to large for the fronts and let the speakers run full range as well as having a sub or set them as small and cross them over around 40hz? I do have the supercube reference so I'm set on the very low bass.

[talbers23]

Another question thats interesting purely from a financial standpoint, has anyone compared the mythos st to the mythos one?

[sokrman14]

I have done quite of bit of comparing of these two, and the ST's are definitely better than the Mythos one. They are a lot more dynamic, obviously better bass, they are a very complete speaker. This is the only speaker that I am a fan of that has a built in sub. I have listened to the entire BP line from Def Tech, but I really feel that the ST's take the cake from them. Do you already have the receiver?

[talbers23]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

I have done quite of bit of comparing of these two, and the ST's are definitely better than the Mythos one. They are a lot more dynamic, obviously better bass, they are a very complete speaker. This is the only speaker that I am a fan of that has a built in sub. I have listened to the entire BP line from Def Tech, but I really feel that the ST's take the cake from them. Do you already have the receiver?

I have a receiver and it's the denon 3808. I really love the receiver.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by talbers23

Thank you for the help! Would you set the receiver to large for the fronts and let the speakers run full range as well as having a sub or set them as small and cross them over around 40hz? I do have the supercube reference so I'm set on the very low bass.

You can do it both ways and see if you notice a difference. It depends on many factors, including your room acoustics. If you don't notice a big difference, then set them to Large.

[Blu-Dog]

My ST's have regular speaker wire connections for the high level, and a single dedicated sub connector for LFE.

On mine, the way it works is that you use the high-level connectors for either high-level only, or full range if the LFE connector is not used. They have to be powered up for the subs to work.

If you connect the RCA connector to the LFE jack, it automatically dedicates the LFE channel to sub chores.

I use mine for full range work, they're terrific. I'm running a JL Audio Fathom, so there's no need for much more than that. I still cut off tones below 80Hz with my setup, but the full range sound is terrific.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by talbers23

Thank you for the help! Would you set the receiver to large for the fronts and let the speakers run full range as well as having a sub or set them as small and cross them over around 40hz? I do have the supercube reference so I'm set on the very low bass.

I use mine as full range units. I'd cross it over higher, even with a beast like the Supercube, which is clean from 80Hz down - the sound is seamless, and I prefer running the ST's in bass module mode. At higher volume, they tend to wobble below about 80Hz.

80 and above, they're very, very tight, and sound terrific in pure 2CH mode without sub if you have source material like that.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by talbers23

Another question thats interesting purely from a financial standpoint, has anyone compared the mythos st to the mythos one?

I have ST's for mains, the Mythos Ten for center, Mythos One for surrounds, and Mythos Eights for surround backs.

The Ones are absolutely fine for mains. Clarity, power handling, and output are incredible. I used them for a PA system one July 4th...

While not as imposing physically as the ST's, and not carrying as much bass as an ST in full range mode, they are excellent full range speakers. I'd say they're pretty much ideal as main speakers. There is a significant cost saving over the ST's, and if you have your subwoofer scenario dialed, go for the One's.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by talbers23

I have a receiver and it's the denon 3808. I really love the receiver.

It will push the Mythos line without breaking a sweat. A very good match, I think.

Frankly, I'm a Pioneer aficiando, but I start taking Denon seriously at the 3808 level.

[talbers23]

Thanks for all the advice Blu-dog!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

My ST's have regular speaker wire connections for the high level, and a single dedicated sub connector for LFE.

On mine, the way it works is that you use the high-level connectors for either high-level only, or full range if the LFE connector is not used. They have to be powered up for the subs to work.

If you connect the RCA connector to the LFE jack, it automatically dedicates the LFE channel to sub chores.

I use mine for full range work, they're terrific. I'm running a JL Audio Fathom, so there's no need for much more than that. I still cut off tones below 80Hz with my setup, but the full range sound is terrific.

Is there any reason why you cannot connect the subwoofer inputs on the back of the speakers to the receiver's pre-outs for the front speakers and at the same time connect speaker wires to the high-level connectors only?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

The jumpers are irrelevant. Is there any reason why you cannot connect the subwoofer inputs on the back of the speakers to the receiver's pre-outs for the front speakers and at the same time connect speaker wires to the high-level connectors only?

You can do that, but it may not be worth it...there is only one connector on the ST that's RCA, and it's dedicated to LFE.

At that point, may as well just set the speakers to "large" and let the internal network on the speaker split out the low tones for the sub. It does a fine job of that.

Connecting a high level pre-out to the LFE channel is something I haven't tried - can't see the point, though it might work. I don't do it because I don't send anything below 80Hz to any of the seven channels, the under 80Hz stuff wouldn't show up anyway.

Maybe you're guarding against signall attenuation with your method, and there could be a benefit, I've never tried it. The subs - now actually bass modules, in my setup - thump hard and clean using only the high level input.

Look, I was suspicious, too, when I first tried it. I have a large room where these are located - I had them in my smaller secondary home theater at first, where they were fine, but they were simply lost in the large room for sub work. I had an LFE RCA cable running to each. So I just got a powerful sub, moved these to full range service, and never looked back.

My test is clarity, and when running the ST's in full range mode, set to Large, solely as 2ch speakers, they are fast and clear. Maybe I'll fool around and see if I can tell the difference with your method.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

You can do that, but it may not be worth it...there is only one connector on the ST that's RCA, and it's dedicated to LFE.

By connecting the subwoofers to the front pre-outs, you are effectively bi-amping the speakers. The receiver will power the midrage/tweeters and the built-in amp will power the subwoofers. It will make them full-range towers and may help clarity. I am not sure about the Mythos series, but Definitive Technology recommends this type of connection for their BP 2000 series.

I do not recommend connecting the built-in subs to LFE output of the receiver. A subwoofer's location is the most important factor in determining its performance. You do not want to have them in the fixed position of the front speakers. At the same time, by doing this, you will turn your front speakers into bookshelf wusses.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

By connecting the subwoofers to the front pre-outs, you are effectively bi-amping the speakers. The receiver will power the midrage/tweeters and the built-in amp will power the subwoofers. It will make them full-range towers and may help clarity. I am not sure about the Mythos series, but Definitive Technology recommends this type of connection for their BP 2000 series.

In the Mythos line, if you're not using the LFE connection from the sub-out, the signal to the sub speaker is tapped from high-level input. Most important, you're not using the power to drive the sub - it still has to be powered up. Unplugged, the subs are inactive. They can't be slaved to the power driving the tweeters and mids. I don't know if that's different from the BP line - I'd never want to have line current trying to drive my tweeters and mids, and some whopping sub driver.

I was concerned that using a high level line current signal would make the subs sound distorted, but that hasn't happened. Or at least, not from what I can tell. I think I'll give the LFE connector, driven from the front pre-outs, a shot. It won't be sub signal, but it will be cleaner than tapping off the speaker wire.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I do not recommend connecting the built-in subs to LFE output of the receiver. A subwoofer's location is the most important factor in determining its performance. You do not want to have them in the fixed position of the front speakers. At the same time, by doing this, you will turn your front speakers into bookshelf wusses.

Yeah, I found that out...almost scratched my head bald trying to figure out what the story was.

But as full range units, the ST's are unrivalled, at least in that price range.

[aramis109]

I don't currently have the ST's, but would maybe like to go to the BP ST's someday. BD, Blu-Dog, could you guys maybe post pics of the back of your ST's so I could see how you've got 'em hooked up? I'm a little confused.