PCM 5.1 Question

[Got2LoveGadgets]

Im looking at upgrading two main parts of my home cinema to get the best out of Blu Ray. Im thinking of changing my amp to the Denon 2808 but have a question. When I play a 5.1 PCM track from the PS3 via HDMI to the amp will the amp lock to 5.1 or will it still use for example Prologic 2x to achive 7.1 as is the case with my current amp (Denon 2805 (no HDMI support)) I have recently upgrade my centre rears which I find add alot to the whole atmos and would hate for them to be dorment

[mastertang]

If an old one does it, it's likely an upgrade will do it. PCM can be extended to 7.1 (through PLII) by a onkyo 605, so unless their engineers are incompetent, I'd say you're good to go. PCM isn't a special codec, it's just straight sound.

[Got2LoveGadgets]

Originally Posted by mastertang

If an old one does it, it's likely an upgrade will do it. PCM can be extended to 7.1 (through PLII) by a onkyo 605, so unless their engineers are incompetent, I'd say you're good to go. PCM isn't a special codec, it's just straight sound.

Thanks I thought that probably would be the case does anyone on here own a Denon 2808 would like to know what you think?

[WickyWoo]

Just FYI

Any sort of processing like PL2 or Neo6 will degrade the audio quality, signifigantly in some cases (stereo to 5.1 via PL2).

[Got2LoveGadgets]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Just FYI

Any sort of processing like PL2 or Neo6 will degrade the audio quality, signifigantly in some cases (stereo to 5.1 via PL2).

My amp uses the normal DD or DTS processing for 5.1 then DTS Neo or Prologic 2x to add the two rear centres and I have to say works brilliantly! I just want to check if I can do the same with PCM im sure you can but would just like someone to confirm

[savage1984]

How would I turn off something like neo or cinema sound if i have an onkyo 605. I had no idea I was degrading the sound.

[WickyWoo]

I don't know. On my Pioneer reciever for stereo sources you just press "stereo", and then go back to "standard", which autodetects 5.1 and switches

[savage1984]

Thanks, I'll try that.

[Clark Kent]

PCM sources should be left untouched if at all possible. Applying DSP processes like Dolby Prologic to PCM degrades the audio quality significantly.

[Got2LoveGadgets]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

PCM sources should be left untouched if at all possible. Applying DSP processes like Dolby Prologic to PCM degrades the audio quality significantly.

My system will suffer alot if films are just played in 5.1 there must be away in most new amps to get 7.1 from a 5.1 pcm track without loss of quality?

[musicman1999]

No, anytime you process the signal it is degraded.Your system won't suffer, the signal is clearer and cleaner so it should be better not worse.

bill

[Brain Sturgeon]

There are preprocessor modes that do a fabulous job of 5.1 to 7.1 upconversions, such as Lexicon's Logic7 or Meridian's Trifield. Whether or not you prefer the sound or not is a matter of each individual's taste. I can tell you that Logic7 applied to 5.1 movie soundtracks in a properly calibrated system can sound phenomenal-- certainly no worse than the 5.1 mix to my ears, and in some cases, the directionality of the sound is more coherent.

Unfortunately, the prepros that will do a good job of this are pricey. I have not heard what Denon's or Onkyo's would do in this regard, but the best way to tell would be multiple listenings of a raw 5.1 LPCM soundtrack and then comparing it to a up-processed mode such as Dolby PL IIx. I have had critical listeners tell me that they preferred PL IIx over the original 5.1, but you have to trust your own ears.

[WickyWoo]

My system will suffer alot if films are just played in 5.1 there must be away in most new amps to get 7.1 from a 5.1 pcm track without loss of quality?

How does it suffer? You're losing a split rear surround channel, that's all....

[Got2LoveGadgets]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

How does it suffer? You're losing a split rear surround channel, that's all....

Due to room restrictions my rear left and rights are slightly infront of the listening position angled towards me. My rear centres are to the left and right of the listening position and really help bring you into a film. Drew a quick diagram to help picture the setup see attached. So if I run a film in just 5.1 isn't not as great an experiance

[musicman1999]

Do you have a couch against a back wall, and is that why the room is set up like that?
If so there are 2 things you can do to improve your sound.First move the couch away from the wall at least as far as half way between the side and rear surrounds, all the way to the side surround if possible.Second, do away with rear surround and go to 5.1 with the rear speakers where the rear surrounds are now.Both of these options will increase the sound quality of your system, if you want a 7.1 setup the rear surrounds really need to be behind you, and as far as 5.1 goes, a properly set up 5.1 system will sound far better than a 7.1 system that is not set up properly.

bill

[Got2LoveGadgets]

Originally Posted by musicman1999

Do you have a couch against a back wall, and is that why the room is set up like that?
If so there are 2 things you can do to improve your sound.First move the couch away from the wall at least as far as half way between the side and rear surrounds, all the way to the side surround if possible.Second, do away with rear surround and go to 5.1 with the rear speakers where the rear surrounds are now.Both of these options will increase the sound quality of your system, if you want a 7.1 setup the rear surrounds really need to be behind you, and as far as 5.1 goes, a properly set up 5.1 system will sound far better than a 7.1 system that is not set up properly.

bill

I agree my speaker placement is not perfect but it works very well indeed. I don't have a dedicated home cinema room (yet) so I have to make a compromise with my girlfriend on room layout as its our main living room. Yes the sofa is against the wall and im afraid that is where its staying. I have tried going back to 5.1 but it just doesn't fill the room like my 7.1 does. The amp im currently using (Denon 2805) is brilliant at making the 6th and 7th channel stereo. If for example a plain flies from front to back down the left hand side then only the SBL will output SBR is quiet, the amp handles this very well a gives perfect spacing to the audio delay from the front to the back channel's.

At the end of the day you have to go with what sounds good for you and your listening environment even if that means your setup isn't by the book