Question about PCM?!?

[burdenbrother]

Okay so I own a PS3 and I want to get 5.1 PCM surround but I do not have a capable reciever. I went out and bought a Harmon Kardmon AVR-146 reciever that supports HDMI 1080p pass through. Someone on this forum had previously told me that any reciever with HDMI will accept PCM surround sound yet this one does not even recognize sound coming from the PS3. I looked in the manual and it says hat the reciever supports 2 channel PCM but not 5.1. I'm going to return the reciever because of this. Does anyone know how I can get 5.1 PCM through a playstation 3 and HDMI cable? Thanks!

[JTK]

You can test this if you like otherwise yes, you may need to consider changing to a different AV receiver. Sounds like the manual was pretty straightforward on the issue.

You need to go into the PS3's audio settings menu and basically check on everything through 5.1.

Make sure anything higher than 5.1 is NOT checked. The audio should come through HDMI. You need to connect the PS3 via HDMI down to your receiver and then send another HDMI from the receiver to the TV for video. That's the only way you are going to get uncompressed PCM and the other goodies.

This receiver has HDMI 1.1 or higher switching. You should be good to go. You may need to consult the manuals for both the PS3 and the HK 146 to get it done right but you should be in business right now.


If $300 or so is all you can spend you can do pretty well with something like a Panasonic SA-Xr57. Check the brands that you like at the most you're willing to spend and just make sure the features are there that you want before you make a move.

[burdenbrother]

Thanks, I'm gonna try it out tomorrow, as I am currently out of town but hopefully it'll work, if not I'll just return it and wait for a reciever that is capable of decoding dtsHD audio.

[ra1024]

If the receiver is listed as "pass through", this generally means it passes the signal through to the tv and just acts as a video switcher. You'll want a receiver that does HDMI sound processing. I would suggest the Yamaha RX-V661 or the new Onkyo 605. The Onkyo isn't available just yet but was listed for pre-order on JR.com for $400 (no longer there) while the Yamaha can be had for around $500. You'll want to confirm these models do HDMI sound processing but from what I've read, they're the best deal for PS3 owners.

Here's a good thread on AVS for PS3 owners looking for lossless audio.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&page=1&pp=30

[JTK]

Originally Posted by ra1024

If the receiver is listed as "pass through", this generally means it passes the signal through to the tv and just acts as a video switcher. You'll want a receiver that does HDMI sound processing. I would suggest the Yamaha RX-V661 or the new Onkyo 605. The Onkyo isn't available just yet but was listed for pre-order on JR.com for $400 (no longer there) while the Yamaha can be had for around $500. You'll want to confirm these models do HDMI sound processing but from what I've read, they're the best deal for PS3 owners.

Here's a good thread on AVS for PS3 owners looking for lossless audio.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&page=1&pp=30

^^ Nice!

[Smooth2DJ]

I have a stupid question then. I have one of the rec on that list, the Onkyo SR604 connected to my PS3 via HDMI. However when playing DVD movies on my PS3 (Non-bluray), the sound just isnt that great. When I switch the PS3 settings to Audio via Optical the sound is amazing.

I also have a DVD Player with HDMI, so just for kicks I tried the same movie to see the difference in sound. The DVD Player when connected via HDMI or Optical for Sound, was exactly the same. The REc registered both as DD 5.1.
When on the PS3 the Rec registered the Optical as DD 5.1 and HDMI as PCM.

But what am I missing? I left the volume at the same level for all the above tests. So I'm a bit confused?

I am in no ways a pro, and would appreciate any advice/help.

thanks.

forgot to mention, on the PS3 I have the Audio only checked for all 5.1 sound. I have none of the 7.1 selected. I have the Audio for PCM selected on my PS3 Setup.

[nhaase]

Originally Posted by burdenbrother

Thanks, I'm gonna try it out tomorrow, as I am currently out of town but hopefully it'll work, if not I'll just return it and wait for a reciever that is capable of decoding dtsHD audio.

If you want the receiver to decode DTS-HD, you have to wait for the HDMI 1.3 receivers to come out. Onkyo announced several for release this summer, including the TX-SR705 (not dead sure on all those numbers). I started a thread when I first saw the press release from Onkyo concerning these receivers. From what I've read, receivers must have HDMI 1.3 to accept DTS-HD. Also, the PS3 currently doesn't output that signal, though it can be made available through a software update, when Sony decides to do that.

Here's the thread w/ the link to the Onkyo press release: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=8162

[kurt vidal]

Originally Posted by Smooth2DJ

I have a stupid question then. I have one of the rec on that list, the Onkyo SR604 connected to my PS3 via HDMI. However when playing DVD movies on my PS3 (Non-bluray), the sound just isnt that great. When I switch the PS3 settings to Audio via Optical the sound is amazing.

I also have a DVD Player with HDMI, so just for kicks I tried the same movie to see the difference in sound. The DVD Player when connected via HDMI or Optical for Sound, was exactly the same. The REc registered both as DD 5.1.
When on the PS3 the Rec registered the Optical as DD 5.1 and HDMI as PCM.

But what am I missing? I left the volume at the same level for all the above tests. So I'm a bit confused?

I am in no ways a pro, and would appreciate any advice/help.

thanks.

forgot to mention, on the PS3 I have the Audio only checked for all 5.1 sound. I have none of the 7.1 selected. I have the Audio for PCM selected on my PS3 Setup.

Thats a very interesting problem. I have not run a std DVD on my PS3 via HDMI. Why are you using the PS3 for std DVD's? Especially if you already have a HDMI capable DVD player? I just use my HDMI capable DVD player to watch std DVD's.
I'll be interested to hear others experiences.
good luck

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by Smooth2DJ

I have a stupid question then. I have one of the rec on that list, the Onkyo SR604 connected to my PS3 via HDMI. However when playing DVD movies on my PS3 (Non-bluray), the sound just isnt that great. When I switch the PS3 settings to Audio via Optical the sound is amazing.

I also have a DVD Player with HDMI, so just for kicks I tried the same movie to see the difference in sound. The DVD Player when connected via HDMI or Optical for Sound, was exactly the same. The REc registered both as DD 5.1.
When on the PS3 the Rec registered the Optical as DD 5.1 and HDMI as PCM.

But what am I missing? I left the volume at the same level for all the above tests. So I'm a bit confused?

I am in no ways a pro, and would appreciate any advice/help.

thanks.

forgot to mention, on the PS3 I have the Audio only checked for all 5.1 sound. I have none of the 7.1 selected. I have the Audio for PCM selected on my PS3 Setup.

What you are hearing is the difference between DD 5.1 soundtrack that is lossy and a lossless PCM track on the PS3.

Lossless PCM is much better and is not available on standard DVDs.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by burdenbrother

Okay so I own a PS3 and I want to get 5.1 PCM surround but I do not have a capable reciever. I went out and bought a Harmon Kardmon AVR-146 reciever that supports HDMI 1080p pass through. Someone on this forum had previously told me that any reciever with HDMI will accept PCM surround sound yet this one does not even recognize sound coming from the PS3. I looked in the manual and it says hat the reciever supports 2 channel PCM but not 5.1. I'm going to return the reciever because of this. Does anyone know how I can get 5.1 PCM through a playstation 3 and HDMI cable? Thanks!

Sorry, maybe I should have been more specific about this. I believe I said just about anything with HDMI these days should be fine. I should have said anything with HDMI 1.1 or higher should be fine (almost all receivers manufactured these days with HDMI is 1.1 or higher). HDMI 1.1 or higher spec. states that it supports 7.1 LPCM. The only other spec under that is HDMI 1.0 (hardly used).

[Smooth2DJ]

Actually this is funny, my girlfriend put the DVD in the PS3 instead of the DVD player, dunno why, but thats when I noticed this.

[Smooth2DJ]

Ascended question for you since you have a PS3 and a 1080p Rec. It seems when playing some PS3 games, that my sound is not at 5.1 PCM, even though the rec is registering PCM only few of the speakers are working. However on other games it is at 5.1? Is this Normal?

I also found when playing PS2 games, I only get 2 channel PCM when HDMI, but with Optical I get 5.1?

If this is normal then I'm ok with that, I guess I just expected everything to be in PCM 5.1.

thanks

[ProvenFlipper]

Originally Posted by Smooth2DJ

Ascended question for you since you have a PS3 and a 1080p Rec. It seems when playing some PS3 games, that my sound is not at 5.1 PCM, even though the rec is registering PCM only few of the speakers are working. However on other games it is at 5.1? Is this Normal?

I also found when playing PS2 games, I only get 2 channel PCM when HDMI, but with Optical I get 5.1?

If this is normal then I'm ok with that, I guess I just expected everything to be in PCM 5.1.

thanks

Check your sound properties in the PS3 menu. Make sure everything your receiver can input is checked. Even Dolby Digital and DTS. I have a HDMI receiver and when I'm playing a game that isn't in PCM, the PS3 still decodes it to PCM.

[Smooth2DJ]

The rec is still outputting PCM for all titles, but not in 5.1, some of the games it will do in 2 channel PCM and other titles are in 5.1 PCM.

But when I do Optical, I get all games on 5.1. So I was just wondering if that was normal for the PS3.

Thanks.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Smooth2DJ

The rec is still outputting PCM for all titles, but not in 5.1, some of the games it will do in 2 channel PCM and other titles are in 5.1 PCM.

But when I do Optical, I get all games on 5.1. So I was just wondering if that was normal for the PS3.

Thanks.

Maybe your receiver will not let you adjust your sound field (neo:6, all channels, etc.) when hooked up via HDMI. That would probably mean that whatever sound field you previously selected when you were using your optical cable becomes active again as you select your optical input. Therefore, you might be listening to simulated sound channels when you are hooked up through the optical interface. That is because most optical signals are decoded inside the receiver and not the PS3. Am I making any sense?

[Smooth2DJ]

You make perfect sense, I noticed this as well. When the rec shows PCM Multi, I cannot change the sound field, but when it shows DD via Optical I can, but I hardly ever change this, but did validate this. When my PS3 is connect via Optical it is DD 5.1 for everythign movies/games. When the PS3 is HDMI, I get PCM 5.1 for movies (nonbluray dont sound as loud, same volume level), and for games I get PCM 5.1 for some, and for most I get 2 Channel PCM.

With Optical I get 5.1 for all.

One thing I played around with today, that I have not done before, and this is related to only movies, if I switch the PS3 Sound Settings to Bitstream instead of PCM, MY rec shows DD 5.1 and the sound is the same as if it was on my DVD Player.

All in all I am satisfied with the sound for movies, cause even though the PCM sound is not as loud as the DD at the same volume level, I believe the PCM sound is much sharper/clearer.

For Games however, I'm confused, because I do expect 5.1 for all games, whether it be PCM or DD. So thats why I wanted to ask you since your profile states you also have a PS3 and if what I'm hearing is normal or not.

Thanks again for all your input.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

No problem.

[IAM1080P]

Can our ears detect the difference between these two formats?

[MatrixS2000]

^ yes - you can listen to 2 channel PCM on the PS3 and compare it to DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 - you will notice a huge difference....

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

^ yes - you can listen to 2 channel PCM on the PS3 and compare it to DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 - you will notice a huge difference....

I don't know if there would be a big difference in volume between LPCM via HDMI and DTS via optical, but the clarity would be worlds apart. Of course the type of speakers and receiver you have plays a big role in this.