Dementia (1955) - Blu-ray Forum

bigshot · 11-07-2020, 07:46 PM

I just got this new BFI restoration and screened it last night. What a remarkable film! I've been on the hunt for this movie since I first read about it in Psychotronic magazine long ago. I found a VHS of the narrated version ("Daughter of Horror"), but the print was so beat and the transfer was so dim, I could barely make out what was happening. This new restoration is a revelation.

The film is visually amazing... very much like a Hollywood version of German Expressionism. It resembles Eraserhead in many ways. The cinematography and lighting is really good... it's by Bill Thompson, the cameraman for Ed Wood, and he would have been working on this film at around the same time as Glen or Glenda. In fact there are a lot of similarities between this film and Wood's films. The opening credits are just like Plan 9 and there is a graveyard scene that may have had props that Ed Wood recycled for his film. The surreal montages are very much like Glen or Glenda too.

But that is where the similarities end. The acting in this film is fantastic. The villain reminds me of Emil Jannings and the lead actress does a great job of putting across her inner turmoil. It's very much like a silent film... well, exactly like a silent film, because there isn't a single line of dialogue in the whole film. There's some really affecting use of symbolism and the staging of the scenes, cutting, and transitions from sequence to sequence are inspired. It reminds me in a lot of ways of Orson Welles' films.

The film is made on a shoestring, using the back alleys of Hollywood. I'm sure it was made on a similar budget as Plan 9, but the impact of the film belies its low budget. The director tried to get it released with no luck. Apparently the censor board objected to the depictions of prostitution, rape and dismemberment. But in today's world, the way the film approaches these subjects actually seems respectable. There was just one screening in New York a few years after the film was completed, and it was sold off to the producer of The Blob to use as stock footage in the movie theater scene. He released it with awful narration by Ed McMahon but it still didn't get very wide release.

Personally, after finally getting a chance to see this film well transferred from an excellent print, I think this is one of the most important outsider films ever made. Had it been made in the 80s instead of the 50s, it would have been playing midnight shows just like Eraserhead.

The blu-ray includes a copy of the narrated version in mediocre quality, but there is no reason to watch that except for curiosity's sake. The transfer and sound are great. Perfect black levels and tons of detail. I definitely recommend it.

Killer Meteor · 11-07-2020, 08:30 PM

The BD's print is missing key footage - https://trailersfromhell.com/dementia/

bigshot · 11-07-2020, 11:14 PM

That says that the shot of the john at the window of the jazz club with the stump arm was missing, but I definitely saw it last night. Unless there was a closer shot that is missing. All of the shots of him at the window are framed the same. The first one, you can't see his hand. The last one he raises it up and you can see it. I didn't notice any break in the soundtrack either.

Telstar · 11-08-2020, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot

That says that the shot of the john at the window of the jazz club with the stump arm was missing, but I definitely saw it last night. Unless there was a closer shot that is missing. All of the shots of him at the window are framed the same. The first one, you can't see his hand. The last one he raises it up and you can see it. I didn't notice any break in the soundtrack either.

That's really strange. The fellow who wrote the review and noted the missing footage is generally extremely reliable and seems quite certain of his facts. He's also obviously a huge fan of the film, which is why he was so frustrated about the missing footage.
For what it's worth, I myself own the original Kino dvd but would be extremely hesitant at this point to purchase the BFI disc just to do a direct comparison only to discover I'd been burned.
All that said, it is a pretty amazing film.

bigshot · 11-08-2020, 07:27 PM

The blu-ray is a fantastic restoration. It couldn't look or sound better.

I kind of got the feeling that the guy who wrote the article felt that he and his friends should have done the commentaries on this. Maybe he wants us to wait for a US version. In any case, there is one shot of the rich man holding up his stump. I'm thinking that there may have been an optical blowup on the scene in some prints. That may be why he thought it was missing.

bigshot · 11-08-2020, 08:07 PM

I just checked the version on youtube, which I'm guessing come from the old DVD. That sequence has different takes than the BFI ones. There are camera movies that aren't in the BFI. They are different, and the DVD cut is better. I think the BFI is some sort of alternate cut, because the takes in the BFI one are completely different than the ones in the DVD cut.

oddbox83 · 11-09-2020, 11:18 AM

So it's not cut as such, it's an alternative edit?

Does anyone have any idea what and where it is and comes from?

Killer Meteor · 11-09-2020, 02:17 PM

Given the film was submitted to and rejected by the New York Censor Board several times between 1953 and 1955, I suspect this is the reason - slightly different edits. It may be one is the final release print and the other one picked up by a private collector.

Jobla · 11-09-2020, 07:10 PM

I'd guess that the less explicit version might have been the final print that was submitted to the censor board.

WaverBoy · 11-09-2020, 07:19 PM

There’s also a cut at the beginning — the director’s credit has been removed. Lovely.

bigshot · 11-09-2020, 07:33 PM

The director's credit was cut when they made the narrated version. This film might have as many different edits as Birth of a Nation.

WaverBoy · 11-09-2020, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot

The director's credit was cut when they made the narrated version. This film might have as many different edits as Birth of a Nation.

Then why is it missing from DEMENTIA? Man this release is messed up. I’ll wait to find a decent price on the old DVD.

Telstar · 11-09-2020, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

Then why is it missing from DEMENTIA? Man this release is messed up. I’ll wait to find a decent price on the old DVD.

Yeah, if the BFI BD winds up super cheap I may eventually pick it up, but in the meantime I'm happy to stick with my old DVD with the inferior image quality but the complete version of the film.

modernmalaise · 11-10-2020, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer Meteor

Given the film was submitted to and rejected by the New York Censor Board several times between 1953 and 1955, I suspect this is the reason - slightly different edits. It may be one is the final release print and the other one picked up by a private collector.

Makes sense as this one should be a Cohen restoration (and thus maybe from Rohauer's collection). And we've seen that the Keaton releases from Kino and Cohen can have significant differences as a result of scanning and reconstructing from various elements. Perhaps Kino may release their own blu-ray with their own restoration.

bigshot · 11-10-2020, 07:22 AM

I'm just going to make my own edit of the two. It's a pretty easy fix.

Killer Meteor · 11-10-2020, 07:49 AM

I shared this with the Classic Horror Film Board and it looks likely that was is on the BFI disc is the final New York release, with appropiate censor cuts.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mons...96588#p1596588

Killer Meteor · 11-10-2020, 07:55 AM

More info here - https://catalog.afi.com/Film/51479-D...137&cp=1&pos=0

I think Parker's director credit is missing as he objected to the cuts.

Rutger Lundgren · 11-10-2020, 08:13 AM

Good enough for me, although it would be great to get a Blu-ray release of the full version as well.

oddbox83 · 11-10-2020, 12:30 PM

Yes, as I suspected since bigshot shared his observations, it's not a simple case of them screwing up. I'm happy enough to have the final released version though it's a shame, if not a dealbreaker for me, that the originally intended version doesn't seem to have been the intent of this restoration.

bigshot · 11-11-2020, 12:10 AM

I think Kino and BFI should get together are restore it properly. You couldn't edit the director credit back in without extending the music, but I'm pretty sure that the running time of the long shots of the rich man in the blu-ray are the same length as the close ups and truck ins on the DVD. The DVD should just neatly drop in. I plan to create a combination of both for myself.

One other note, although all of the articles on this note that it was shot in Venice, CA, a lot of it was shot in Hollywood. I recognized the Hollywood Dog & Cat Hospital on Highland in one shot, and there were a lot of alleyways that looked to be just off of Hollywood Bl and off Santa Monica Bl.

Here is the dog & cat hospital https://ladailymirror.com/2017/02/27...lutes-animals/

11-07-2020, 07:46 PM	#1
bigshot Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2010 Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:82 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:3	Dementia (1955) I just got this new BFI restoration and screened it last night. What a remarkable film! I've been on the hunt for this movie since I first read about it in Psychotronic magazine long ago. I found a VHS of the narrated version ("Daughter of Horror"), but the print was so beat and the transfer was so dim, I could barely make out what was happening. This new restoration is a revelation. The film is visually amazing... very much like a Hollywood version of German Expressionism. It resembles Eraserhead in many ways. The cinematography and lighting is really good... it's by Bill Thompson, the cameraman for Ed Wood, and he would have been working on this film at around the same time as Glen or Glenda. In fact there are a lot of similarities between this film and Wood's films. The opening credits are just like Plan 9 and there is a graveyard scene that may have had props that Ed Wood recycled for his film. The surreal montages are very much like Glen or Glenda too. But that is where the similarities end. The acting in this film is fantastic. The villain reminds me of Emil Jannings and the lead actress does a great job of putting across her inner turmoil. It's very much like a silent film... well, exactly like a silent film, because there isn't a single line of dialogue in the whole film. There's some really affecting use of symbolism and the staging of the scenes, cutting, and transitions from sequence to sequence are inspired. It reminds me in a lot of ways of Orson Welles' films. The film is made on a shoestring, using the back alleys of Hollywood. I'm sure it was made on a similar budget as Plan 9, but the impact of the film belies its low budget. The director tried to get it released with no luck. Apparently the censor board objected to the depictions of prostitution, rape and dismemberment. But in today's world, the way the film approaches these subjects actually seems respectable. There was just one screening in New York a few years after the film was completed, and it was sold off to the producer of The Blob to use as stock footage in the movie theater scene. He released it with awful narration by Ed McMahon but it still didn't get very wide release. Personally, after finally getting a chance to see this film well transferred from an excellent print, I think this is one of the most important outsider films ever made. Had it been made in the 80s instead of the 50s, it would have been playing midnight shows just like Eraserhead. The blu-ray includes a copy of the narrated version in mediocre quality, but there is no reason to watch that except for curiosity's sake. The transfer and sound are great. Perfect black levels and tons of detail. I definitely recommend it. Last edited by BigNickUK; 11-08-2020 at 10:13 AM.

11-07-2020, 11:14 PM	#3
bigshot Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2010 Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:82 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:3	That says that the shot of the john at the window of the jazz club with the stump arm was missing, but I definitely saw it last night. Unless there was a closer shot that is missing. All of the shots of him at the window are framed the same. The first one, you can't see his hand. The last one he raises it up and you can see it. I didn't notice any break in the soundtrack either. Last edited by bigshot; 11-07-2020 at 11:19 PM.

11-11-2020, 12:10 AM	#20
bigshot Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2010 Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:82 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:3	I think Kino and BFI should get together are restore it properly. You couldn't edit the director credit back in without extending the music, but I'm pretty sure that the running time of the long shots of the rich man in the blu-ray are the same length as the close ups and truck ins on the DVD. The DVD should just neatly drop in. I plan to create a combination of both for myself. One other note, although all of the articles on this note that it was shot in Venice, CA, a lot of it was shot in Hollywood. I recognized the Hollywood Dog & Cat Hospital on Highland in one shot, and there were a lot of alleyways that looked to be just off of Hollywood Bl and off Santa Monica Bl. Here is the dog & cat hospital https://ladailymirror.com/2017/02/27...lutes-animals/ Last edited by bigshot; 11-11-2020 at 12:16 AM.

11-07-2020, 08:30 PM	#2
Killer Meteor Banned Member since:Jan 2013 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:-	The BD's print is missing key footage - https://trailersfromhell.com/dementia/

11-08-2020, 07:27 PM	#5
bigshot Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2010 Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:82 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:3	The blu-ray is a fantastic restoration. It couldn't look or sound better. I kind of got the feeling that the guy who wrote the article felt that he and his friends should have done the commentaries on this. Maybe he wants us to wait for a US version. In any case, there is one shot of the rich man holding up his stump. I'm thinking that there may have been an optical blowup on the scene in some prints. That may be why he thought it was missing.

11-08-2020, 08:07 PM	#6
bigshot Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2010 Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:82 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:3	I just checked the version on youtube, which I'm guessing come from the old DVD. That sequence has different takes than the BFI ones. There are camera movies that aren't in the BFI. They are different, and the DVD cut is better. I think the BFI is some sort of alternate cut, because the takes in the BFI one are completely different than the ones in the DVD cut.

11-09-2020, 11:18 AM	#7
oddbox83 Blu-ray Champion Member since:Sep 2013 Location:UK	So it's not cut as such, it's an alternative edit? Does anyone have any idea what and where it is and comes from?

11-09-2020, 02:17 PM	#8
Killer Meteor Banned Member since:Jan 2013 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:-	Given the film was submitted to and rejected by the New York Censor Board several times between 1953 and 1955, I suspect this is the reason - slightly different edits. It may be one is the final release print and the other one picked up by a private collector.

11-09-2020, 07:10 PM	#9
Jobla Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Mar 2013 Location:Boulevard of Broken Dreams	I'd guess that the less explicit version might have been the final print that was submitted to the censor board.

11-09-2020, 07:19 PM	#10
WaverBoy Blu-ray Knight Member since:May 2013 Location:Seattle, WA Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:5	There’s also a cut at the beginning — the director’s credit has been removed. Lovely.

11-09-2020, 07:33 PM	#11
bigshot Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2010 Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:82 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:3	The director's credit was cut when they made the narrated version. This film might have as many different edits as Birth of a Nation.

11-10-2020, 07:22 AM	#15
bigshot Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2010 Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:82 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:3	I'm just going to make my own edit of the two. It's a pretty easy fix.

11-10-2020, 07:49 AM	#16
Killer Meteor Banned Member since:Jan 2013 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:-	I shared this with the Classic Horror Film Board and it looks likely that was is on the BFI disc is the final New York release, with appropiate censor cuts. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mons...96588#p1596588

11-10-2020, 07:55 AM	#17
Killer Meteor Banned Member since:Jan 2013 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:-	More info here - https://catalog.afi.com/Film/51479-D...137&cp=1&pos=0 I think Parker's director credit is missing as he objected to the cuts.

11-10-2020, 08:13 AM	#18
Rutger Lundgren Power Member Member since:Aug 2019 Location:Virovitica, Croatia 4K collection:167 Blu-ray collection:2263 DVD collection:191	Good enough for me, although it would be great to get a Blu-ray release of the full version as well.

11-10-2020, 12:30 PM	#19
oddbox83 Blu-ray Champion Member since:Sep 2013 Location:UK	Yes, as I suspected since bigshot shared his observations, it's not a simple case of them screwing up. I'm happy enough to have the final released version though it's a shame, if not a dealbreaker for me, that the originally intended version doesn't seem to have been the intent of this restoration.

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