Do I NEED a new receiver with a PS3 doing all the decoding?...:confused:

[TheycallmeBruce]

Hello all.

First post, but been watching the Hot Deals forum daily, great place!

After reading a lot, I am unsure if I need to upgrade to a different receiver. Since I am using the PS3 and it does all the decoding, do I need a receiver with all of the True HD and Lossless audio decoding capabilities?

I currently have a Kenwood VR 6070 THX Ultra Certified unit. w/the following specs: It does have 6.1 inputs, optical in and out, but no HDMI

Technical Details

* Number Component Video Inputs : 2
* A+B Speaker Switching : Yes
* Front Power (Watts) : 100 x 2 @ 8 Ohms
* Center Power (Watts) : 100 x 1
* Surround Power (Watts) : 100 x 3
* Bandwidth @ Rated Power : 20Hz - 20kHz
* THD% at Rated Power : .09
* Dolby Pro Logic : Yes
* Dolby Pro Logic II : Yes
* Dolby Digital : Yes
* Dolby Digital EX (6.1) : Yes
* DTS : Yes
* DTS ES (6.1) : Yes
* THX : Yes
* Number DSP Modes : 5
* Multi-channel Input : 6.1
* Number Digital Coaxial Inputs : 2
* Number Digital Optical Inputs : 2
* Number S-Video Inputs : 5
* Subwoofer Output : Yes
* Phono Input : Yes
* Number AM/FM Tuner Presets : 40
* Remote Type : RF/IR Learning Remote
* Video Display of Receiver Audio Settings : No
* Warranty Parts : 24 Months
* Warranty Labor : 24 Months
* Center Power (Watts) : 100 x 1
* THD% at Rated Power : .09
* Number DSP Modes : 5
* Dolby Pro Logic : Yes
* Dolby Digital : Yes
* THX : Yes
* DTS : Yes
* Number S-Video Inputs : 5
* Subwoofer Output : Yes
* Number AM/FM Tuner Presets : 40
* Remote Type : RF/IR Learning Remote
* Video Display of Receiver Audio Settings : No
* Front Power (Watts) : 100 x 2 @ 8 Ohms
* Dolby Pro Logic II : Yes
* Bandwidth @ Rated Power : 20Hz - 20kHz
* Surround Power (Watts) : 100 x 3
* Dolby Digital EX (6.1) : Yes
* DTS ES (6.1) : Yes
* Phono Input : Yes
* Number Digital Optical Inputs : 2
* Number Digital Coaxial Inputs : 2
* A+B Speaker Switching : Yes
* Number Component Video Inputs : 2
* Multi-channel Input : 6.1

I was looking @ the Onkyo 805 but dont really want to spend the $700-$900. ESPECIALLY if I dont really need it because the PS3 is doing all the decoding.

The sound that it is producing sounds really good! All the channels are working except for the rear, but that works if I have the appropriate audio source. I can definitely hear the difference with the Blu Ray experience.

PS3 connected to the HDTV through HDMI
PS3 connected to the receiver through optical

I have the receiver set to "auto detect" so the audio signal wont be a matrix or simulated.

I played 300 and switched between the 3 audio options and the first 2 that were Dolby Digital and Multi Channel I couldnt hear any difference, but when I switched to the 3rd audio which was Linear PCM 5.1 but it didnt sound as good as the other two.

Am I totally confused or close to understanding?

Please help.

Thanks in advance.

[hagar852]

Originally Posted by TheycallmeBruce

Hello all.

First post, but been watching the Hot Deals forum daily, great place!

After reading a lot, I am unsure if I need to upgrade to a different receiver. Since I am using the PS3 and it does all the decoding, do I need a receiver with all of the True HD and Lossless audio decoding capabilities?

I currently have a Kenwood VR 6070 THX Ultra Certified unit. w/the following specs: It does have 6.1 inputs, optical in and out, but no HDMI

Technical Details

* Number Component Video Inputs : 2
* A+B Speaker Switching : Yes
* Front Power (Watts) : 100 x 2 @ 8 Ohms
* Center Power (Watts) : 100 x 1
* Surround Power (Watts) : 100 x 3
* Bandwidth @ Rated Power : 20Hz - 20kHz
* THD% at Rated Power : .09
* Dolby Pro Logic : Yes
* Dolby Pro Logic II : Yes
* Dolby Digital : Yes
* Dolby Digital EX (6.1) : Yes
* DTS : Yes
* DTS ES (6.1) : Yes
* THX : Yes
* Number DSP Modes : 5
* Multi-channel Input : 6.1
* Number Digital Coaxial Inputs : 2
* Number Digital Optical Inputs : 2
* Number S-Video Inputs : 5
* Subwoofer Output : Yes
* Phono Input : Yes
* Number AM/FM Tuner Presets : 40
* Remote Type : RF/IR Learning Remote
* Video Display of Receiver Audio Settings : No
* Warranty Parts : 24 Months
* Warranty Labor : 24 Months
* Center Power (Watts) : 100 x 1
* THD% at Rated Power : .09
* Number DSP Modes : 5
* Dolby Pro Logic : Yes
* Dolby Digital : Yes
* THX : Yes
* DTS : Yes
* Number S-Video Inputs : 5
* Subwoofer Output : Yes
* Number AM/FM Tuner Presets : 40
* Remote Type : RF/IR Learning Remote
* Video Display of Receiver Audio Settings : No
* Front Power (Watts) : 100 x 2 @ 8 Ohms
* Dolby Pro Logic II : Yes
* Bandwidth @ Rated Power : 20Hz - 20kHz
* Surround Power (Watts) : 100 x 3
* Dolby Digital EX (6.1) : Yes
* DTS ES (6.1) : Yes
* Phono Input : Yes
* Number Digital Optical Inputs : 2
* Number Digital Coaxial Inputs : 2
* A+B Speaker Switching : Yes
* Number Component Video Inputs : 2
* Multi-channel Input : 6.1

I was looking @ the Onkyo 805 but dont really want to spend the $700-$900. ESPECIALLY if I dont really need it because the PS3 is doing all the decoding.

The sound that it is producing sounds really good! All the channels are working except for the rear, but that works if I have the appropriate audio source. I can definitely hear the difference with the Blu Ray experience.

PS3 connected to the HDTV through HDMI
PS3 connected to the receiver through optical

I have the receiver set to "auto detect" so the audio signal wont be a matrix or simulated.

I played 300 and switched between the 3 audio options and the first 2 that were Dolby Digital and Multi Channel I couldnt hear any difference, but when I switched to the 3rd audio which was Linear PCM 5.1 but it didnt sound as good as the other two.

Am I totally confused or close to understanding?

Please help.

Thanks in advance.

Is your PS3 set to LPCM output over HDMI? It doesn't sound like it is...

[Slec]

For the PS3, you need HDMI to get lossless audio. With CE receivers, you can use the analog inputs on the back as long as the set top unit decodes internally. and Welkommen.

[Big Daddy]

To get lossless high resolution sound, you need an HDMI connection from your PS3 to your receiver.
Read my thread on "A Guide to Home Theater Audio CODECs".
Sticky under Home Theater Discussion: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820

[Slec]

Audio and the PS3 sticky.

[Slec]

HAHA, bigDaddy and I are post whoring for our stickies... Choose mine Choose mine!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Slec

HAHA, bigDaddy and I are post whoring for our stickies... Choose mine Choose mine!

I am just trying to help. I don't get paid. The thread I recommended deals with all audio codecs and not only lossless high resolution sound.

[Slec]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I am just trying to help. I don't get paid. The thread I recommended deals with all audio codecs and not only lossless high resolution sound.

I know, I feel the same way, I was just trying to have a little fun...and I link to your article in mine!

[TheycallmeBruce]

Originally Posted by hagar852

Is your PS3 set to LPCM output over HDMI? It doesn't sound like it is...

I have the audio set to Digital out (optical) That is the only receiver connection.

I have the BD Audio Output Format (optical) set to Bitstream.

Does that offer any more help?

Thanks for the quick reply and welcome.

But by reading Slecs sticky, regarding the PS3 audio capabilities, I know I cant get Lossless because of the HDMI issue, but what about PCM through the optical?

[hagar852]

Originally Posted by TheycallmeBruce

I have the audio set to Digital out (optical) That is the only receiver connection.

I have the BD Audio Output Format (optical) set to Bitstream.

Does that offer any more help?

Thanks for the quick reply and welcome.

But by reading Slecs sticky, regarding the PS3 audio capabilities, I know I cant get Lossless because of the HDMI issue, but what about PCM through the optical?

No unfortunately you need HDMI to get the PCM output.. Optical won't do it.. That is the reason why I ended up getting my new receiver just like your situation..

[Slec]

PCM over optical is confined to 2.0 by bandwidth unfortunately. Optical just can't handle the amount of info lossless requires. Regular dolby digital and DTS can be send across optical though. If you decide to upgrade your receiver you atleast don't need to be in a hurry as you can get surround sound.

[bkbluray]

Originally Posted by Slec

PCM over optical is confined to 2.0 by bandwidth unfortunately. Optical just can't handle the amount of info lossless requires. Regular dolby digital and DTS can be send across optical though. If you decide to upgrade your receiver you atleast don't need to be in a hurry as you can get surround sound.

Actually, I heard it's because of copyright protection. But either way, you NEED an HDMI connection to the receiver to get any kind of lossless audio (unless you're using analog outs from a Blu-ray player other than PS3).

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheycallmeBruce

I have the audio set to Digital out (optical) That is the only receiver connection.

I have the BD Audio Output Format (optical) set to Bitstream.

Does that offer any more help?

Thanks for the quick reply and welcome.

But by reading Slecs sticky, regarding the PS3 audio capabilities, I know I cant get Lossless because of the HDMI issue, but what about PCM through the optical?

If you are using PS3 as your disc (both Blu-Ray and standard DVD) player and your receiver does not have an HDMI connection, use an Optical cable and set the PS3's audio output to Bitstream. However, you will only get Dolby Digital or DTS Digital surround signals.

If you are using PS3 as your Blu-Ray player and your receiver has an HDMI connection, use an HDMI cable and set the PS3's audio output to LPCM.

If you are using a standard DVD in PS3 and an HDMI connection, you can set the player’s audio output either to bitstream or LPCM.

Currently, the PS3 is not capable of carrying the high definition audio signals in bitstream format.

Originally Posted by bkbluray

Actually, I heard it's because of copyright protection. But either way, you NEED an HDMI connection to the receiver to get any kind of lossless audio (unless you're using analog outs from a Blu-ray player other than PS3).

The copyright issue goes back to SACD and DVD-A. When the two music formats were introduced, you could only connect your player to your receiver by analog cables. You could not use optical or digital cable. Later on, you could use i-link (IEEE 1394, Firewire) cable. Nobody had heard of HDMI at that time.

[TheycallmeBruce]

Originally Posted by Slec

For the PS3, you need HDMI to get lossless audio. With CE receivers, you can use the analog inputs on the back as long as the set top unit decodes internally. and Welkommen.

What is a "CE" receiver? What do you mean by the "set top unit" would that be the PS3? Or my receiver?

I do have a 6 channel input on my receiver can I use that to get any of the better audio codecs with the PS3?

[DutchBoy]

Originally Posted by TheycallmeBruce

What is a "CE" receiver? What do you mean by the "set top unit" would that be the PS3? Or my receiver?

I do have a 6 channel input on my receiver can I use that to get any of the better audio codecs with the PS3?

The PS3 doesn't have cables for that. The ONLY way to get the HD codecs from the PS3 is by HDMI.

[Slec]

Originally Posted by TheycallmeBruce

What is a "CE" receiver? What do you mean by the "set top unit" would that be the PS3? Or my receiver?

I do have a 6 channel input on my receiver can I use that to get any of the better audio codecs with the PS3?

I mistyped... It should have read CE players.... Consumer Electronics Players or Set top units are the stand alone blu-ray players such as the Panasonic BD30, Sony S300 etc. If you click on the Players link underneath the blu-ray.com logo you'll see a whole slew of them. sorry for the confusion.

The best you'll get at the moment is the DTS core track at 1.5Mbps. Still a great track (especially on I,Robot), but not the same as full lossless. If a disc has DTSHD-MA on it, the "core" DTS track is embedded so select DTSHD-MA and you'll get the core track. Dolby Digital works the same way, but its bit rates are in the 448-640kbps range (Big Daddy can correct me if i'm wrong, he knows WAY more about bit rates than I)...

[DutchBoy]

Originally Posted by Slec

I mistyped... It should have read CE players.... Consumer Electronics Players or Set top units are the stand alone blu-ray players such as the Panasonic BD30, Sony S300 etc. If you click on the Players link underneath the blu-ray.com logo you'll see a whole slew of them. sorry for the confusion.

The best you'll get at the moment is the DTS core track at 1.5Mbps. Still a great track (especially on I,Robot), but not the same as full lossless. If a disc has DTSHD-MA on it, the "core" DTS track is embedded so select DTSHD-MA and you'll get the core track. Dolby Digital works the same way, but its bit rates are in the 448-640kbps range (Big Daddy can correct me if i'm wrong, he knows WAY more about bit rates than I)...

The DTS bitrates are WAY better than the DD. I think you're right. DTS runs around 1.5 I think (if not exactly) and the DD ones are roughly half that. If it has a DTS track on the disc, go with that with what you have.

But, time to update.

[ixlegitballinxl]

605 i believe is the lowest priced receiver to handle hd sound..i could be wrong though....check it out

[TheycallmeBruce]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If you are using PS3 as your disc (both Blu-Ray and standard DVD) player and your receiver does not have an HDMI connection, use an Optical cable and set the PS3's audio output to Bitstream. However, you will only get Dolby Digital or DTS Digital surround signals.

If you are using PS3 as your Blu-Ray player and your receiver has an HDMI connection, use an HDMI cable and set the PS3's audio output to LPCM.

If you are using a standard DVD in PS3 and an HDMI connection, you can set the player’s audio output either to bitstream or LPCM.

Currently, the PS3 is not capable of carrying the high definition audio signals in bitstream format.



The copyright issue goes back to SACD and DVD-A. When the two music formats were introduced, you could only connect your player to your receiver by analog cables. You could not use optical or digital cable. Later on, you could use i-link (IEEE 1394, Firewire) cable. Nobody had heard of HDMI at that time.

I am using the PS3 as the Blu Ray, and have been for DVD just for the convenience of it. I do have my standard DVD hooked up also if I choose to.

So, then am I just over excited with the Blu Ray picture that Im not really noticing that the audio is exactly the same as I always have been getting? That is what you are saying that I am receiving via the PS3/optical/bitstream/receiver connection right? Or is the audio quality simply higher because its on a Blu disc?

Or is it actually less because of the optical/Blu only sending 2 channels whereas my standard/DVD sends 5.1/6.1? This is where it seems particularly confusing. If it only sends 2 channels via optical, how am I getting the seperate rear left and right sounds to the surround and the subwoofer? I think that the center is somehow encoded with the two front ones if I remember correctly so I understand how I would get the main 3 channels. But how I get the rest of the channels I dont get? especially since I make sure there is no matrix or artificial soundfields doing that.

Or maybe it would be clearer if I were to say "With my current Kenwood receiver if I closed my eyes and switched an A/B switch between my standard DVD and my PS3 with the same movie playing would there be any difference in sound or sound quality?"

[TheycallmeBruce]

Originally Posted by DutchBoy

The PS3 doesn't have cables for that. The ONLY way to get the HD codecs from the PS3 is by HDMI.

SO the only way to get HD codecs to my current receiver would be to change the Blu Ray player? But if I am going to spend the $300 plus on that I should just bite the bullet and get an HDMI receiver.

SIGH.............. there goes my Discover Card balance!