Ratatouille vs TMNT (AVC VS VC1?) - Blu-ray Forum

Maniccow · 02-12-2008, 10:54 AM

Ok just watched Ratatouille on blu-ray and the picture quality was simply amazing. Now I watched TMNT on blu-ray some time ago and it was digitally sourced and the picture was no where near as impressive, yes it was sharp etc but I found a problem with color banding in dark backgrounds scenes. It not my TV because Ratatouille had same kind of scenes and the picture was perfect.

So is it the codec or the bitrates. Either way, for me this not good news for HD DVD because HD DVD mainly uses VC1 and cannot have the bitrates of blu-ray.

Please note I’m not attacking HD DVD I’m just saying from what I’ve seen. I want your opinion on it was TMNT just a bad transfer.

Maxell · 02-12-2008, 11:11 AM

TMNT looked great. But also they are 2 different types of animation styles, as well as TMNT being a dark movie while Rat is more colorful bright movie. But then again Disney movies beats almost all other movies in terms of PQ and transfer.

bageleaterkkjji · 02-12-2008, 11:13 AM

who cares if you attack hd-dvd or not...it sucks and is making people not get some movies they want because of it, and/or bad quality ones (hmm warner?)..im not positive if banding can be caused by lowbitrate but my guess would be its just the movie itself (i dont think that movie has alot of color to begin with). but then again it could be warners fault since they cant do anything right but join blu ray lol

Maniccow · 02-12-2008, 11:15 AM

Sorry i posted this in HD digest forums first anc coppied it and last time i got a warning lol

jd213 · 02-12-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniccow

Ok just watched Ratatouille on blu-ray and the picture quality was simply amazing. Now I watched TMNT on blu-ray some time ago and it was digitally sourced and the picture was no where near as impressive, yes it was sharp etc but I found a problem with color banding in dark backgrounds scenes. It not my TV because Ratatouille had same kind of scenes and the picture was perfect.

Heh. I thought I was the only one who noticed the banding in TMNT. Rat definitely looks better overall, as well.

tron3 · 02-12-2008, 03:02 PM

TMNT is one of those Warner transfers from 30gb HD DVD to blu-ray. Someone on this site said they use some Microsoft software to resize the sectors. You won't get the bit rates you do with a true blu-ray transfer.

With that being said, stay away from "The Polar Express". That was tranfered from a 15gb HD DVD. I can't tell at all it is HD. Piece of crap transfer.

WickyWoo · 02-12-2008, 03:04 PM

TMNT was also done on less than a third of the budget with an outsourced asian animation crew. Not with the masters at Pixar

Apples and oranges, invalid comparison even for master tapes

bageleaterkkjji · 02-12-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tron3

TMNT is one of those Warner transfers from 30gb HD DVD to blu-ray. Someone on this site said they use some Microsoft software to resize the sectors. You won't get the bit rates you do with a true blu-ray transfer.

With that being said, stay away from "The Polar Express". That was tranfered from a 15gb HD DVD. I can't tell at all it is HD. Piece of crap transfer.

the dvd of polar express is better

Icemage · 02-12-2008, 06:18 PM

TMNT looks pretty good, but it's nowhere near as crisp as Ratatouille.

Part of it might be due to restricted capacity/bitrate, but the visual style is also very different; simpler models, less stylish art direction, plus some artificially added grain that some won't like.

Even so, TMNT is still a fantastic presentation on Blu-ray.

I don't get all the HD DVD hate - come on folks, it's a dying format, but it does do most movies justice when the proper tools are applied; and in the case of TMNT, they were.

Granted, I'm sure a Blu-ray optimized version will look better, but I don't think a bit of extra bandwidth or capacity is going to significantly improve the PQ (though getting a lossless soundtrack would be nice).

zombieking · 02-12-2008, 06:43 PM

And you have to remember NO other film studio can do CGI like Pixar can. They are simply the best for animated children's movies.

YAY!! Post #1000

cakefoo · 02-12-2008, 07:21 PM

Happy Feet had this problem too. Just look at the rings around the whale.

It was a 13GB VC-1 encode, but I don't know if that matters.

ClaytonMG · 02-12-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bageleaterkkjji

the dvd of polar express is better

Yeah that's not true...

And second, you guys think AVC doesn't have banding? The Simpsons has banding in the sky scenes. But like Wicky said, you can't compare the 2. You'd have to get the exact same movie, from the exact same master and do 2 encodes with it to see which one does the better job. Even then there's other variables. I think people need to stop thinking about which codec is being used and start looking at PQ (and now, I don't mean in the way the OP said). VC-1 is just as good as AVC IMO, it's just that it's gotten a bad rep due to the HD DVD ports. If you want to see a good VC-1 presentation that's not from an HD DVD port, take a look at Deja Vu.

LynxFX · 02-12-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icemage

Even so, TMNT is still a fantastic presentation on Blu-ray.

Exactly, I was pleasantly surprised by it.

Quote:

They are simply the best for animated children's movies.

I disagree with that. They are simply the best for animated adult movies as well.

I'm hardly a child and love all of their films to date. Cars seems to be the first one that was really geared to a younger audience but still didn't talk down to them.

richterbon23 · 02-12-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bageleaterkkjji

the dvd of polar express is better

the polar express blu-ray was so much better than the dvd. put them both on at the same time and pause the same scenes and then switch sources. the detail and color in the blu-ray blows the dvd away.

Joe Cain · 02-12-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richterbon23

the polar express blu-ray was so much better than the dvd. put them both on at the same time and pause the same scenes and then switch sources. the detail and color in the blu-ray blows the dvd away.

Don't mind him---his day's not complete if he can't work in at least a half dozen "Warner sucks lol" posts.

LynxFX · 02-12-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Don't mind him---his day's not complete if he can't work in at least a half dozen "Warner sucks lol" posts.

To be fair, Warner hasn't exactly been a crown jewel of Blu-ray. Just because they finally decided to end their neutral stance doesn't mean they should get a free pass. While they have done a good job on most of their high profile releases, they still have a lot of catching up to do to equal the quality of Sony, Fox and Disney, all of which have released every single one of their titles with lossless audio. Warner has only released 28% of their titles with a lossless track, let alone all of the HD ported releases. The bar has been set pretty high and we should now start pushing Warner to rise up to it.

bageleaterkkjji · 02-12-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Don't mind him---his day's not complete if he can't work in at least a half dozen "Warner sucks lol" posts.

best post ive seen in awhile lol

Septimus Prime · 02-12-2008, 10:59 PM

Nothing, on either format, looks better than Ratatouille.

Bobby Henderson · 02-13-2008, 02:22 AM

There's no logical basis in comparing AVC versus VC1 based on how two entirely different movies look compressed in different formats.

The biggest reason why Ratatouille looks better than TMNT is that Pixar is just way better at doing CGI cartoons than anyone else. Both artistically and technically. Pixar's CGI quality often looks better than the usual CGI stuff you see in most live action movies. Pixar very often defines and pushes the state of the art in computer animation. Everyone else is usually playing catch-up.

If someone put a similar effort into encoding a VC-1 version of Ratatouille, and do so at comparable bit rates, then one could do blind comparisons of either codec.

I'm not too worried about AVC versus VC-1 comparisons since Blu-Ray supports both video encoding formats. I just want the best use of the bits on available on the disc made as possible. Naturally, I prefer a movie to be on a BD-50 disc than a BD-25.

02-12-2008, 07:21 PM	#11
cakefoo Active Member Member since:Dec 2007	Happy Feet had this problem too. Just look at the rings around the whale. It was a 13GB VC-1 encode, but I don't know if that matters. Last edited by cakefoo; 02-12-2008 at 07:23 PM.

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02-12-2008, 10:54 AM	#1
Maniccow Junior Member Member since:Jan 2008	Ratatouille vs TMNT (AVC VS VC1?) Ok just watched Ratatouille on blu-ray and the picture quality was simply amazing. Now I watched TMNT on blu-ray some time ago and it was digitally sourced and the picture was no where near as impressive, yes it was sharp etc but I found a problem with color banding in dark backgrounds scenes. It not my TV because Ratatouille had same kind of scenes and the picture was perfect. So is it the codec or the bitrates. Either way, for me this not good news for HD DVD because HD DVD mainly uses VC1 and cannot have the bitrates of blu-ray. Please note I’m not attacking HD DVD I’m just saying from what I’ve seen. I want your opinion on it was TMNT just a bad transfer.

02-12-2008, 11:11 AM	#2
Maxell Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007	TMNT looked great. But also they are 2 different types of animation styles, as well as TMNT being a dark movie while Rat is more colorful bright movie. But then again Disney movies beats almost all other movies in terms of PQ and transfer.

02-12-2008, 11:13 AM	#3
bageleaterkkjji Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Sep 2007 Location:in the garbage 4K collection:59 Blu-ray collection:322 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:4	who cares if you attack hd-dvd or not...it sucks and is making people not get some movies they want because of it, and/or bad quality ones (hmm warner?)..im not positive if banding can be caused by lowbitrate but my guess would be its just the movie itself (i dont think that movie has alot of color to begin with). but then again it could be warners fault since they cant do anything right but join blu ray lol

02-12-2008, 11:15 AM	#4
Maniccow Junior Member Member since:Jan 2008	Sorry i posted this in HD digest forums first anc coppied it and last time i got a warning lol

02-12-2008, 03:02 PM	#6
tron3 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2004 Location:New Jersey Blu-ray reviews:3	TMNT is one of those Warner transfers from 30gb HD DVD to blu-ray. Someone on this site said they use some Microsoft software to resize the sectors. You won't get the bit rates you do with a true blu-ray transfer. With that being said, stay away from "The Polar Express". That was tranfered from a 15gb HD DVD. I can't tell at all it is HD. Piece of crap transfer.

02-12-2008, 03:04 PM	#7
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	TMNT was also done on less than a third of the budget with an outsourced asian animation crew. Not with the masters at Pixar Apples and oranges, invalid comparison even for master tapes

02-12-2008, 06:18 PM	#9
Icemage Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007	TMNT looks pretty good, but it's nowhere near as crisp as Ratatouille. Part of it might be due to restricted capacity/bitrate, but the visual style is also very different; simpler models, less stylish art direction, plus some artificially added grain that some won't like. Even so, TMNT is still a fantastic presentation on Blu-ray. I don't get all the HD DVD hate - come on folks, it's a dying format, but it does do most movies justice when the proper tools are applied; and in the case of TMNT, they were. Granted, I'm sure a Blu-ray optimized version will look better, but I don't think a bit of extra bandwidth or capacity is going to significantly improve the PQ (though getting a lossless soundtrack would be nice).

02-12-2008, 06:43 PM	#10
zombieking Special Member Member since:May 2007 Location:CANADA Blu-ray collection:304 Blu-ray reviews: 18	And you have to remember NO other film studio can do CGI like Pixar can. They are simply the best for animated children's movies. YAY!! Post #1000

02-12-2008, 10:59 PM	#18
Septimus Prime Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2008 Blu-ray collection:164 Trading Score:2	Nothing, on either format, looks better than Ratatouille.

02-13-2008, 02:22 AM	#19
Bobby Henderson Power Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Oklahoma Blu-ray collection:96 Blu-ray reviews: 12	There's no logical basis in comparing AVC versus VC1 based on how two entirely different movies look compressed in different formats. The biggest reason why Ratatouille looks better than TMNT is that Pixar is just way better at doing CGI cartoons than anyone else. Both artistically and technically. Pixar's CGI quality often looks better than the usual CGI stuff you see in most live action movies. Pixar very often defines and pushes the state of the art in computer animation. Everyone else is usually playing catch-up. If someone put a similar effort into encoding a VC-1 version of Ratatouille, and do so at comparable bit rates, then one could do blind comparisons of either codec. I'm not too worried about AVC versus VC-1 comparisons since Blu-Ray supports both video encoding formats. I just want the best use of the bits on available on the disc made as possible. Naturally, I prefer a movie to be on a BD-50 disc than a BD-25.

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