Why is my UHD Blu-ray picture so grainy?

[SunShines]

Hello!

I have a problem with my UHD Blu-rays. The picture is really grainy, especially visible on skin tones (close-ups look horrible) and white scenes (such as the Westworld intro, embedded below).

I have tried on two different players (UBP-X500 and UBP-X700), and three different TVs (Sony AF8 and LG E8, as well as an "old" Samsung F9005), and the problem exists on all combinations of these.

I have experimented a lot with the settings, and the only setting that reduces this grainyness at all, is the "Contrast" setting (and "Dynamic contrast"). However, even with Dynamic contrast turned completely off, and regular "Contrast" turned down to an unwatchable level, the grainyness is still there (although less visible).

The regular (1080p) Blu-ray may have some grain if I am specifically looking for it, but this is not noticeable at all.
The UHD Blu-ray is very grainy, and no settings on the TV are able to help it (at least not without otherwise ruining the picture). It is a major distraction to the movie.
Dolby Vision is ridiculous. Just ridiculous. The amount of grain in this mode looks like it was filmed on 35mm coarse sandpaper. None of the available settings are even remotely helpful to hiding these grains. Ridiculous.

As this happens across three different TVs, two different UHD Blu-ray players, all of my UHD discs, and all settings I can think of, I am now at a loss as to what to try. I even went out and bought new premium HDMI cables, but to no effect. Surely, it is not the UHD format itself that is this bad, or else everyone would have complained too. As I have quite recently upgraded all my stuff to 4K, my anticipation of a great 4K experience has been brutally shot down by this, discovering that regular Blu-rays are actually being displayed significantly better than my 4K ones. One friend told me to just be happy. "That means you can just buy the cheap discs and save money". Well, I don't want to save money, I want to have great movie experiences.

Does anybody have any suggestions to what I can try?
Thank you very much in advance!


(Also, how do I link to YouTube without embedding the video?)

Westworld intro

[JohnAV]

Sony 4K releases for example will display the original film grain at 4K, that was lacking at 1080P. Its not something you can avoid in these cases because you are reproducing the way film looks. You can however utilize a little DNR using that noise reduction adjustment in your source to remove that grain so its not so noticeable.

[JohnAV]

If you really want to see a example of pushing the limits of resolution versus film grain look at the remastering BD reissue A&E Pride and Prejudice.

Pride and Prejudice will become a "poster-child" for the Blu-ray format. The tech specialists at A&E have gone back to the original 16mm film negative and performed a frame-by-frame restoration of Pride and Prejudice that has produced something you have to see to believe. Yes a DVD originally brought to HD resolution from Super 16 film.

My point is when one approaches the limits of the filming standard used, the original noise is actually desirable, not a negative. Eliminating the film noise removes the maximum sharpness of the content you are look at so it looks softer without it.

[SunShines]

I'm sure some noise is unavoidable when upscaling old film to 4K, but what I am experiencing here is just objectively horrendous. As I said, it is a major distraction to the movie. Major. And Dolby Vision is so ridiculously grainy that is more or less unwatchable. There's no way it was meant to be this way. Something is wrong here, I am sure of it. Unless you're saying that 1080p standard Blu-rays are actually objectively better looking than UHD ones? In that case I see no point buying them anymore.

[koberulz]

"Why do my films look like they were shot on film?"

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by SunShines

Unless you're saying that 1080p standard Blu-rays are actually objectively better looking than UHD ones? In that case I see no point buying them anymore.

No I am not, most 4k films don't have excessive amounts of visable noise.

Have you brought over someone technical to examine your picture playback quality?

[SunShines]

Originally Posted by koberulz

"Why do my films look like they were shot on film?"

No. Please read before you comment sarcastically. A little grain is okay. What I have is not okay.

Also, the "natural" grain shouldn't be so dramatically increased from base HDR to Dolby Vision, should it? I understand how 4K would preserve natural grains more than 1080p, but not to this extent, and not how that would make Dolby Vision completely unwatchable compared to "just distracting" HDR10 grain.

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Have you brought over someone technical to examine your picture playback quality?

No, I'm not really sure where to get hold of these people here in Norway. The only places I know of that calibrate TVs, are the retailers who sell them, but they just use part-time highschoolers to adjust the settings according to a standard set of values. I have friends who did that, and they openly admit they had no idea what they were doing. And I have no idea where to find professionals here. Thanks for answering!

Edit:
I googled, and there is only one person in the entire northern half of Norway who is a certified ISF level II calibrator. No wonder they are so hard to come by.

[SunShines]

So I was just about to write again, saying I just tested E.T. (Extra-Terrestrial) and that it was the best-looking movie yet, with the least amount of grain. So the "film vs digital" argument shouldn't be the issue. Then I tested Bohemian Rhapsody, and there were no sign of grains at all. So I went back to Westworld, which has always been the most grainy $#!t of them all (made me cringe just a few hours ago), and it was completely fine. I have absolutely no idea what has happened. All of the settings (which I have also tweaked a gazillion times before) were returned to the usual states, and it still looks fine. I even tried to elicit the grains on purpose, but no matter how much I tried, I wasn't able to bring back the grains I so desperately tried to get rid of only 30 minutes ago.

I have no idea what happened – but as long as it stays this way, I'm very happy.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by SunShines

So I was just about to write again, saying I just tested E.T. (Extra-Terrestrial) and that it was the best-looking movie yet, with the least amount of grain. So the "film vs digital" argument shouldn't be the issue. Then I tested Bohemian Rhapsody, and there were no sign of grains at all. So I went back to Westworld, which has always been the most grainy $#!t of them all (made me cringe just a few hours ago), and it was completely fine. I have absolutely no idea what has happened. All of the settings (which I have also tweaked a gazillion times before) were returned to the usual states, and it still looks fine. I even tried to elicit the grains on purpose, but no matter how much I tried, I wasn't able to bring back the grains I so desperately tried to get rid of only 30 minutes ago.

I have no idea what happened – but as long as it stays this way, I'm very happy.

I think you encounter a HDMi handshake issue. Where you saw this added noise artifacts.

Make sure the path from the player to display is using HDMI premium certified cables, not just high speed examples. These cables are not expensive at all, usually have this emblem on the packaging. Example is from Monoprice

Also for Dolby Vision processing usually IP image processing in a AVR should be off, unless it is very new and supports the AVR info overlay.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I think you encounter a HDMi handshake issue. Where you saw this added noise artifacts.

Make sure the path from the player to display is using HDMI premium certified cables, not just high speed examples. These cables are not expensive at all, usually have this emblem on the packaging. Example is from Monoprice

Also for Dolby Vision processing usually IP image processing in a AVR should be off, unless it is very new and supports the AVR info overlay.

I think those are the exact ones I purchased to make my connection between the Cambridge CXUHD and Samsung NU8000!

In general, Monoprice cables aren't to be beat; they offer a great value for a high-quality product (I use their RCA analog interconnect cables in my two-channel system).

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by SunShines

No, I'm not really sure where to get hold of these people here in Norway. The only places I know of that calibrate TVs, are the retailers who sell them, but they just use part-time highschoolers to adjust the settings according to a standard set of values. I have friends who did that, and they openly admit they had no idea what they were doing. And I have no idea where to find professionals here. Thanks for answering!

Edit:
I googled, and there is only one person in the entire northern half of Norway who is a certified ISF level II calibrator. No wonder they are so hard to come by.

No Level III at all? Regardless, the course is not cheap and the equipments cost a lot too.

[trekky76]

Could definitely be cables. I had white noise in some movies (not all) and it all went away completely by replacing all my hdmi cables.

[ZoetMB]

Some of it was shot Super-35mm which is a 3-perf format which will show a lot of film grain because it's optically expanded in the lab. But I doubt the opening was shot on film - it's probably all digital, so if you're seeing anything, it's not film grain, it's noise. But I'm not seeing any problems.

[discombobul8r]

I've been looking into the issue. The problem is when 35mm film is scanned upto 6.5k it enhances the grain. I personally hate it but other's like it. It really is personal preference.
Some studio's reduce the grain others i think are cheap & use the excuse of filmic grain.
Now i have 2 set ups on my LG C 9OLED. One for reference movies like Lucy. & another for scanned older movies.
I really cant wait for studio's to not only shoot in 4k & above but master in it as well so we all get that reference picture we're paying for.

[David M]

Why is my UHD Blu-ray picture so grainy?

You’ll be watching discs sourced from film, so what you’re seeing is film grain.

The grain texture will be more pronounced in certain shooting conditions (low-light scenes, etc.). It’s not a fault with your setup, just part of how the image was captured on celluloid.

If your display isn’t properly set up, it’ll be sharpening up the grain, which can make it look really obtrusive. Make sure you’re in a “hands off” picture mode (usually called Movie, THX, ISF, Custom, Pro etc.) and make sure the Sharpness control is correctly set.

Once you’ve done so, the grain, most of the time, should be a texture that makes up the image, and not one that distracts from it.

[sapiendut]

Yeah but too many UHD “filmgrain” look more severe than actual projected 35mm. I used to work with 35mm filmstock but discs such as Ghostbusters and Crouching Panda Hidden Llama are exaggerated.

[tcripe]

I know some films add grain to their films for a more filmic look. Pretty sure the most recent Godzilla film is an example of that. Could be wrong though

[LettuceJUMP]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Yeah but too many UHD “filmgrain” look more severe than actual projected 35mm. I used to work with 35mm filmstock but discs such as Ghostbusters and Crouching Panda Hidden Llama are exaggerated.

It’s funny you say that. I thought the grain in Ghostbusters and Crouching Monkey Hidden Dinosaur is fantastic. Loved the picture.

[Phillip c. Niethe]

...Is your HD setup in or near a silo?...

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Some of it was shot Super-35mm which is a 3-perf format which will show a lot of film grain because it's optically expanded in the lab. But I doubt the opening was shot on film - it's probably all digital, so if you're seeing anything, it's not film grain, it's noise. But I'm not seeing any problems.

This shouldn't apply to 4K scans and DIs unless they did something silly and used an anamorphic blow-up. Shouldn't be anymore grainy than standard (non-Scope) 35mm matted to widescreen. In fact, probably less since the format uses more film area than standard sound film.