What To Expect From Old 4:3 Aspect Ratio Productions on BD?

[Azyiu]

I am interested to know when or if companies begin re-releasing old old TV programs on BD, what should we expect out of them?

I mean, will those re-releases still be in 4:3 aspect ratio? And how do you enhance such old programs, when some of them were recorded on old video tapes instead of film?

[Mr. Hanky]

Toshiba SUC processing in the encoding?!

On a more serious note, probably sd video-sourced material need not migrate from dvd. There won't be any resolution to be gained in the end product by going to br for that kind of material, I would think.

Film-based 4:3 material (does that even exist?...I really don't know about that kind of stuff) could potentially get the restoration treatment into the br realm. Perhaps, the more risque move could be to employ a moderate crop of 16:10 so that it fills more of a widescreen display w/o drastically changing the proportions/original presentation? I've noticed that you can actually crop a lot of sd material to a 16:9 frame w/o serious consequences to on-screen objects. Even 4:3 news shows really don't lose much.

As an experiment, I took the Family Guy Blue Harvest broadcast and cropped it to 16:9, and it actually worked out pretty well. It mimics the cinematic feel of the real SW movie, and it almost looks as if it was designed to be framed that way.

[mrgreed202]

well shows like seinfeld and older show like that were actually shot on 35 mm film. so they actually can transfer it to blu-ray, althought i've heard they will probably leave it at OAR, but i wouldnt mind. It would look a whole lot better.

[Chevypower]

No point in releasing standard def video stuff on Blu Ray, your player can do the upconverting from DVD. Yes 35mm is more square anyway. You need to anamorph the picture to put widescreen on standard 35mm.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/home/wsfaq.html

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky

Film-based 4:3 material (does that even exist?...I really don't know about that kind of stuff) could potentially get the restoration treatment into the br realm. Perhaps, the more risque move could be to employ a moderate crop of 16:10 so that it fills more of a widescreen display w/o drastically changing the proportions/original presentation? I've noticed that you can actually crop a lot of sd material to a 16:9 frame w/o serious consequences to on-screen objects. Even 4:3 news shows really don't lose much.

Yes, a lot of movies filmed before the 50s were in 1.37:1 (Academy Ratio).

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Chevypower

No point in releasing standard def video stuff on Blu Ray, your player can do the upconverting from DVD. Yes 35mm is more square anyway. You need to anamorph the picture to put widescreen on standard 35mm.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/home/wsfaq.html

If a TV show or movie was shot in 1.33:1, I'll rather have it that way on Blu-ray.

[andyn1080]

PLEASE SOMEONE PM ME! WHAT DOES OAR MEAN?????? IT'S BEEN DRIVING ME CRAZY!

[Chevypower]

Original Aspect Ratio (the aspect ratio the movie/show was filmed on)

[Mr. Hanky]

Maybe they could do something creative and shove the 4:3 frame all the way to one side and then put some sort of interactive java screen tile in the free space? Maybe some online chat community dialog could appear there (the special interest topic being the show, of course)?

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by andyn1080

PLEASE SOMEONE PM ME! WHAT DOES OAR MEAN?????? IT'S BEEN DRIVING ME CRAZY!

Original Aspect Ratio. Most enthusiasts want dvds and Blu-rays in the original aspect ratio of the theatrical presentation. If a movie was shot in a 2.35:1 frame they want the Blu-ray to duplicate that instead of it being cropped to say a 1.85:1 aspect ratio.

[SlmShdy1]

Well, they've already been transfering Dragon Ball Z to Blu-ray. The original aspect ratio is 1.33:1 but they are cropping the film to fit a 16:9 aspect ratio. So you end up losing the top and bottom of the picture. Sure, I'll buy the Blu-rays but I'm keeping my old DVD's because they have the full picture.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky

Maybe they could do something creative and shove the 4:3 frame all the way to one side and then put some sort of interactive java screen tile in the free space? Maybe some online chat community dialog could appear there (the special interest topic being the show, of course)?

Well, that's quite an idea I'll say.

[mrgreed202]

i think they should use a automatic CG filler to fill in the sides with what the computer would think would be there, based on what it's seen before. hey it could work.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by mrgreed202

i think they should use a automatic CG filler to fill in the sides with what the computer would think would be there, based on what it's seen before. hey it could work.

No, no it wouldn't.

Honestly, 4:3 should be kept in it's OAR with the possible exception of when widescreen ratio is available. Changing it is no better than all the black bar haters wanting to change widescreen movies to fill the screen.

[WickyWoo]

i think they should use a automatic CG filler to fill in the sides with what the computer would think would be there, based on what it's seen before. hey it could work.

No it couldn't. The process you're talking about is used for repairing scratches and such. It's not going to work for that, not even close

[Azyiu]

Cropping sounds like a nice idea, but would you guys accept any BD re-release of 4:3 materials in OAR? And you have the "black bars" on both sides?

And then more specifically, I am a huge NBA fan and I would love to see some of those classic games to be re-released on BD one day. Knowing the NBA uses mostly the original footage from the tv broadcast in those days, I don't think cropping those video would really work in that situation.

Also, according to what I read from above, you can't really improve the video any more if the source was video tape based? Am I correct? Thanks for all your inputs.

[mrgreed202]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

No it couldn't. The process you're talking about is used for repairing scratches and such. It's not going to work for that, not even close

not that process. but since in sitcoms we are usually limited to a certain set in every episode, they can take a scan of every viewing point of the set and they could recreate it in CG and widen the picture. I'm pretty sure they could do it, they've done similar things to recreate buildings for movies.

Originally Posted by Azyiu

Also, according to what I read from above, you can't really improve the video any more if the source was video tape based? Am I correct? Thanks for all your inputs.

well yes if it was tape based, but most older shows were filmed with actual film, so they actually can get high resolutions.

[WickyWoo]

not that process. but since in sitcoms we are usually limited to a certain set in every episode, they can take a scan of every viewing point of the set and they could recreate it in CG and widen the picture. I'm pretty sure they could do it, they've done similar things to recreate buildings for movies.

The expense would be amazingly gigantic. When they do it with buildings on movies they plan to do it from the beginning. They have all their material set ahead of time and things like tracking markers are placed on the set. They have reference lighting passes, they know exactly the stock and lenses in use etc etc

All the sets for these shows are long since in the trash. Without tracking markers which means that even if you got a photoreal set you still have to align it pixel by pixel by hand, for every shot for hundreds of episodes and re-create every single set ever used.

No, it's not possible whatsoever, I don't even want to think about the staggering expense, but for say a Seinfeld it would probably hit $50 million easily, and I wouldn't be shocked at a hundred. Remember that ST:TOS is running on about $200k for under 5 minutes of new FX per episode. You're talking to 20-25min of FX for 200+ episodes.

Or you just ask people who object to the pillarboxing to press zoom

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by Azyiu

And then more specifically, I am a huge NBA fan and I would love to see some of those classic games to be re-released on BD one day. Knowing the NBA uses mostly the original footage from the tv broadcast in those days, I don't think cropping those video would really work in that situation.

Also, according to what I read from above, you can't really improve the video any more if the source was video tape based? Am I correct? Thanks for all your inputs.

Any NBA Finals game from before the 90's looks hideous and is strictly on videotape from the tv broadcasts. The current dvds are as good as those games will ever look.

[Sean4000]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

No it couldn't. The process you're talking about is used for repairing scratches and such. It's not going to work for that, not even close

Wicky, let's write that plugin and be rich beyond our wildest dreams