Why Onkyo?

[Bokchoy]

Before I start, here's a history lesson:

Back when Blu-ray and HD-DVD were still doing battle, players that decoded both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA were rare and expensive. Meanwhile, Onkyo's x05 series was the first entry-level AVR line to be able to decode lossless audio codecs. No other AVR manufacturer could match this at under $1000, and Onkyo was the champ at this price range. Onkyo was particularly popular with HD DVD early adopters, because the cheapest player + receiver combination to bestow lossless audio always included the Onkyo 605. This was a truly compelling reason to purchase Onkyo over any other brand.

Fast-forward to the present. HD DVD is long gone. The PS3 finally decodes Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, as does just about every other $500+ player. Most notably, just about every $500+ MSRP AVR features lossless audio, 3+ HDMI inputs, and (at least) a Faroudja chip. Having these features at this price is no longer special. On top of that, Onkyo receivers have developed a reputation for overheating and questionable build quality. Not many receiver manufacturers have 300+ post threads about build quality issues on AVS.

So, under these circumstances, Onkyo, while still a power player in AVRs, is no longer the king of sub-$1,000 receivers, yet its fifteen minutes of fame still echo through these forums while AVR experts have moved on. This doesn't bother me at all except for the fact that just about everyone looking for recommendations on these forums is quickly pointed in the direction of Onkyo with little to no justification on why this particular brand is favorable to the many other brands out there.

I don't claim to be someone who can judge-by-ear the quality between equal-caliber receivers of different manufactuers. I don't think anyone can. However, surely someone here can explain why the Onkyo 606 is a better choice than: Pioneer 1018, Marantz 5001, Denon 789, Yamaha 663, Sony 920, H/K 254, etc... (or any other comparison of receivers competing in the same caliber).

This isn't a criticism against Onkyo receivers. I bet that anyone in the market for an AVR could buy any of the aforementioned receivers and be completely satisfied with their purchase. This post is more of a criticism behind the "Buy this brand and this model. Don't ask why. Just do it." mentality.

[PanasonicPlasmaMan]

Onkyo is popular because it came out with a technology that was already out but offered it for a fraction of the price but still offered good quality and reliability. Look at Samsung with its LCD if you told someone 10 years ago that Sony LCD and Samsung LCD would be in the same category they would think you are crazy. But samsung came and made similar tv to Sony (spec wise if not better) and sold it cheaper. Look at Vizio it is popular (i am not saying vizio is bad) it is cheap but it is more you get what you pay for where as Onkyo is you are getting a good deal on a receiver that should cost more because of its specs and name.

I love my Onkyo receiver and for the price nothing comes close. $250 for a 7.1 loseless audio reciever. you cant beat that

And that is why Onkyo is popular

[Nooff]

Can't agree more.

Onkyo offers everything and more for less than most other manufacturers plus their *05 range was HEAVY!

The *05 range offers great sound for a fraction compared to a brand like Denon which I find WAY overpriced. I'm sure there are many receivers that sound better, but 9 out of 10 times you will have to pay a lot more for the slightest improvement. I'm not going there cuz I don't feel like it's the improvement I'd like to pay $200-$500 extra for. Onkyo ROCKS!

[Bokchoy]

Originally Posted by Circuit City

Onkyo is popular because it came out with a technology that was already out but offered it for a fraction of the price but still offered good quality and reliability. Look at Samsung with its LCD if you told someone 10 years ago that Sony LCD and Samsung LCD would be in the same category they would think you are crazy. But samsung came and made similar tv to Sony (spec wise if not better) and sold it cheaper. Look at Vizio it is popular (i am not saying vizio is bad) it is cheap but it is more you get what you pay for where as Onkyo is you are getting a good deal on a receiver that should cost more because of its specs and name.

I love my Onkyo receiver and for the price nothing comes close. $250 for a 7.1 loseless audio reciever. you cant beat that

And that is why Onkyo is popular

Your LCD analogy is completely off topic and has nothing to do with what I'm saying about receivers. I'm not surprised that Onkyo became one of the leading brand names in AV receivers. That's irrelevant. For all I care, Fisher Price can come out with an awesome AVR next year that blows its competition away, and if the Fisher Price AVR-2000 was that good of a receiver, I'd probably agree if everyone recommended it to everyone.

As for Onkyo right now, I think some people are quick to recommend Onkyo's above any other brand because that's what people were doing last year, when there WAS a reason to recommend Onkyo's over its competitors. Many of the recommendations I've seen in the past 8 months or so (when I was in the market for a receiver) have had little to no reason and logic behind them.

[Bokchoy]

Originally Posted by Nooff

Can't agree more.

Onkyo offers everything and more for less than most other manufacturers plus their *05 range was HEAVY!

The *05 range offers great sound for a fraction compared to a brand like Denon which I find WAY overpriced. I'm sure there are many receivers that sound better, but 9 out of 10 times you will have to pay a lot more for the slightest improvement. I'm not going there cuz I don't feel like it's the improvement I'd like to pay $200-$500 extra for. Onkyo ROCKS!

I don't think you understand the first post.

We've already established that the Onkyo x05 was the king of 2007. The 605 offered features that Denon's 788 couldn't. You'll need to move up to the Denon 988 to get these features, which costs $400 more. THAT gave a compelling reason to buy the 605 over the 788 or anything else in its price range. THAT gave good reasons to recommend Onkyo over its competition. We already said that.

However, what about this year? Does the Onkyo 606 carry any such advantage anymore, now that the competition offers the same features that made the 605 famous?

You can justify Onkyo 605 over Yamaha 661, Denon 788, Pioneer 1017.
Can you justify Onkyo 606 over Yamaha 663, Denon 789, Pioneer 1018?

[Nooff]

Originally Posted by Bokchoy

I don't think you understand the first post.

We've already established that the Onkyo x05 was the king of 2007. The 605 offered features that Denon's 788 couldn't. You'll need to move up to the Denon 988 to get these features, which costs $400 more. THAT gave a compelling reason to buy the 605 over the 788 or anything else in its price range. THAT gave good reasons to recommend Onkyo over its competition. We already said that.

However, what about this year? Does the Onkyo 606 carry any such advantage anymore, now that the competition offers the same features that made the 605 famous?

You can justify Onkyo 605 over Yamaha 661, Denon 788, Pioneer 1017.
Can you justify Onkyo 606 over Yamaha 663, Denon 789, Pioneer 1018?

Manufacturers always catch up. Onkyo was the first to offer everything for less, I'm sure this year's competition will be heavier, no doubt.

What's the prices on those Receivers you mentioned, all the same? or is the Onkyo still cheaper. If so, than you have your answer.

You're also looking at the lower end of the bunch. If you'd compare the 906 to the 4308 or even the 905, there's no doubt the Onkyo offers the same for less.

[Slec]

Originally Posted by Bokchoy

I don't think you understand the first post.

We've already established that the Onkyo x05 was the king of 2007. The 605 offered features that Denon's 788 couldn't. You'll need to move up to the Denon 988 to get these features, which costs $400 more. THAT gave a compelling reason to buy the 605 over the 788 or anything else in its price range. THAT gave good reasons to recommend Onkyo over its competition. We already said that.

However, what about this year? Does the Onkyo 606 carry any such advantage anymore, now that the competition offers the same features that made the 605 famous?

You can justify Onkyo 605 over Yamaha 661, Denon 788, Pioneer 1017.
Can you justify Onkyo 606 over Yamaha 663, Denon 789, Pioneer 1018?

The points the other guys made are perfectly correct and valid. Remember, people typically recommend what they own in *most* cases. With the 605 being the best bang for your buck for so long, there are a TON of people out there who own them. The 605 is replaced by the 606, its kind of seen as an extension of the 605, so that is what people are going to recommend. Customers are buying the Pioneer and Yammy now, but time on the market is pushing the recommendation behavior your seeing.
Conversely if the 605 had turned out to be a dog of a unit, many would have purchased because of its low price point, but would be screaming that people should avoid it, or warning against the 606.

[Footloose301]

I loved my first Onkyo, then I upgraded to the TX-SR805 and I LOVE this one even more. Never had a problem with it. Gives me a great bang for the buck considering MSRP was $1200 and I picked it up for $550. So of course I will recommend Onkyo to anybody at this point. However, I was heavily leaning towards the Marantz 7002 or 8002 but I just couldn't pass up this deal on the Onkyo.

[Slec]

Originally Posted by Footloose301

I loved my first Onkyo, then I upgraded to the TX-SR805 and I LOVE this one even more. Never had a problem with it. Gives me a great bang for the buck considering MSRP was $1200 and I picked it up for $550. So of course I will recommend Onkyo to anybody at this point. However, I was heavily leaning towards the Marantz 7002 or 8002 but I just couldn't pass up this deal on the Onkyo.

Exactly where I am now. The only reason I want to swap out my 605 is because it lacks preouts and in the future I WILL have a dedicated theater with separates. It my 605 had that, I couldn't be happier. I really want a Marantz 7002, but at $625 (curently) the 805 will not be ignored.

[Footloose301]

Yep, and as far as I can tell, my receiver doesn't over heat. Yes, it does get much hotter than any other receiver I've ever had, but none of them could ever do 130wattsx7, Burr Browns, etc.... I just thought of this heat being normal considering the power it outputs. It has never shut off on me or messed up. I just wish I could upgrade the firmware before I get myself a new Blu-ray player that bitstreams DTS-HDMA. Upgrading the firmware seems rather difficult.

[aramis109]

Meh, you say you're not criticizing, but you are. This comes across as trolling to me. What point are you trying to make? That Onkyo owners are sheep and followers?

The bottom line to answer you question is price-to-performance ratio. With arguably the Yamaha 663, show me another receiver that has the features of the 605 at below a $300 price range. *edit* The 606 is also over $100 cheaper than the Yamaha and Pioneer receivers you mentioned- $356 vs. $469/$479, so again while they're comparable your argument fails.

Your argument about overheating and build is just as invalid. This is no longer an issue, and AVS is the king of picking things to pieces, so I'd question truly how many actually had an issue to begin with.

When the topic comes up next time, you'd be much better off offering constructive choices for a new person of something other than Onkyo. Personally, it's a brand that I feel offers great quality, and I feel that maybe you don't like it simply because it's popular.

[MacDaddyOJack]

Originally Posted by Bokchoy

On top of that, Onkyo receivers have developed a reputation for overheating and questionable build quality. Not many receiver manufacturers have 300+ post threads about build quality issues on AVS.

The reason they have more of a reputation for that is becuase there are more of them in use. The only reason these rumors get started is because of morons who cram a receiver into a completely enclosed cabinate or put another component on top of it. As far as build quality goes, the 805 outweighs everything in its class - by far.

I demoed the Onkyo 805, Yamaha RX-V1800, and a 3000 series Denon when I bought mine a year ago. All were roughly the same price although the Onkyo had the edge there. However, the Onkyo was clearly the best for me. That is why I think the Onkyo is popular, and that is why I recommend it to many others.

[zweet77]

Originally Posted by Bokchoy

I don't think you understand the first post.

We've already established that the Onkyo x05 was the king of 2007. The 605 offered features that Denon's 788 couldn't. You'll need to move up to the Denon 988 to get these features, which costs $400 more. THAT gave a compelling reason to buy the 605 over the 788 or anything else in its price range. THAT gave good reasons to recommend Onkyo over its competition. We already said that.

However, what about this year? Does the Onkyo 606 carry any such advantage anymore, now that the competition offers the same features that made the 605 famous?

You can justify Onkyo 605 over Yamaha 661, Denon 788, Pioneer 1017.
Can you justify Onkyo 606 over Yamaha 663, Denon 789, Pioneer 1018?

I don't really see that many pushing the 06s since the 05s can be had pretty easily at really budget prices the 05s are still the best bang for the buck.In fact the 05s get pushed over the 06s the majority of the time.

[HOME THEATRE ADDICT!]

Im happy with my Onkyo, even though now Id like to have the 876. I didnt start with Onkyo because of anything to do with this website. They were the 1st to offer HD codecs, and now that other manufacturers are offering them also Id happily take a Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon etc. Personally I like the Yammy Z-11 but I dont have $5 grand to drop on a receiver, and Id take the 663 or the 3800. Yamahas are really comming up in the world as well as Pioneer. If I were buying a new receiver today it may not be a Onkyo but Im satisfied with my purchase..........for now!

[EQ3282]

I can see Bokchoy's point. When I was looking at receivers, the 820 suited my needs. But, that still didn't stop people on this board from saying, "Onkyo rocks...get one!" or, "Sony is OK, but you can't go wrong with Onkyo."

Some of you who are comparing prices are comparing apples to bananas. You're quoting a price for a used, refurdbed Onkyo to in-store retail prices of the Yamaha's and Pioneers. No sh*t you're going to pay less for a refurb than a new item.

What Bokchoy is saying is that is there really justification in today's market to keep recommending Onkyo over other brands? MSRP prices are generally in the same ballpark for comparable receivers (I have seen the Sony 920 MUCH cheaper than the Onkyo 606), so why keep saying "Onkyo is best!"? To use a point someone mentioned, if you want to start comparing LCD manufacturers, if we maintained the same argument as we do with receivers, no one would be recommending Samsungs...it would be all about Sony, as they have the 'history' of being the best, so why recommend anything else?

[jcs913]

The irony of Onkyo, is that it used to be higher end only. Now the have tapered back to include the masses(price wise) and use the Integra name as pretty much their high end line. Onkyo makes a good product for the price, but with their past reliability issues, I have stuck with Pioneer Elite.

[My_Two_Cents]

It all comes down to price/performance. I bought a 705 earlier this year because it offered everything I wanted at a price I could afford. I would have rather purchased the Pioneer 92/94 model, but could not justify the 2-3X cost difference. Now that Yamaha and Pioneer have finally started offering models to compete with Onkyo in the sub-$700 range, folks have more of a choice. If I were looking today, I would probably consider Yamaha or Pioneer ahead of Onkyo. Sorry, but when it comes to AVR's, Sony just isn't there yet. Not trying to start anything, just my opinion.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by EQ3282

I can see Bokchoy's point. When I was looking at receivers, the 820 suited my needs. But, that still didn't stop people on this board from saying, "Onkyo rocks...get one!" or, "Sony is OK, but you can't go wrong with Onkyo."

Some of you who are comparing prices are comparing apples to bananas. You're quoting a price for a used, refurdbed Onkyo to in-store retail prices of the Yamaha's and Pioneers. No sh*t you're going to pay less for a refurb than a new item.

What Bokchoy is saying is that is there really justification in today's market to keep recommending Onkyo over other brands? MSRP prices are generally in the same ballpark for comparable receivers (I have seen the Sony 920 MUCH cheaper than the Onkyo 606), so why keep saying "Onkyo is best!"? To use a point someone mentioned, if you want to start comparing LCD manufacturers, if we maintained the same argument as we do with receivers, no one would be recommending Samsungs...it would be all about Sony, as they have the 'history' of being the best, so why recommend anything else?

The prices I quoted were for a new 606 vs new Yammy/Pio. It's still > $100 cheaper. Yes, there is justification in recommending them over other brands for that reason alone, but when I personally recommend it, I also nearly always recommend the Yammy 663. I've personally not owned one, but people's opinions I trust have, so it's worth mentioning. Add to that your analogy doesn't work because in the past, Onkyos may have had issues with overheating. So, no one is recommending them just because of their history.

So again, the argument fails.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

It all comes down to price/performance. I bought a 705 earlier this year because it offered everything I wanted at a price I could afford. I would have rather purchased the Pioneer 92/94 model, but could not justify the 2-3X cost difference. Now that Yamaha and Pioneer have finally started offering models to compete with Onkyo in the sub-$700 range, folks have more of a choice. If I were looking today, I would probably consider Yamaha or Pioneer ahead of Onkyo. Sorry, but when it comes to AVR's, Sony just isn't there yet. Not trying to start anything, just my opinion.

Professional reviewers would disagree.

I tend to believe that in this price range you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference between any of the receivers besides features.

http://whathifi.com/Review/Sony-STR-DG820/

Before we get stuck into how the SRT-DG820 sounds, it's worth noting that Sony went back to the drawing board for its whole 2008 receiver range. And the Japanese giant has introduced various new features that, it claims, help improve performance.

Silky sound, dynamic dialogue

But back to the receiver in action. Set-up is done through Sony’s Digital Cinema Auto Calibration system. It’s ridiculously quick, easy to use and accurate – the receiver takes just a few seconds to set up.

And, hooked up to a Blu-ray player such as the Panasonic DMP-BD30, the Sony sounds sensational. Fed the Dolby TrueHD soundtrack from Batman Begins, the STR-DG820 impresses with its solid, controlled sound.

When Batman’s Tumbler causes havoc on the streets of Gotham City, the Sony delivers explosions with a fine sense of immediacy and impact. Bass notes don’t wallow or linger. In fact, you soon forget you’re listening to a ‘budget’ receiver.

The Sony is a dab hand at dialogue, too. Voices sound full-bodied and boast exceptional clarity, even during the most boisterous action scenes. There’s no trace of brashness or harshness in the sound that could prove tiresome over prolonged listening.

Sure, more expensive receivers can give you a greater spread of sound and greater scale but, for this sort of money, the STR-DG820 is an absolute star.

It's equally adept at music

Dare we say it, the Sony also sounds adept when it comes to CD playback. Press the Analog Direct button to turn off all unnecessary internal processing and the receiver’s clear, composed sound once again comes to the fore.

It exhibits a fine sense of rhythm for an AV receiver and dishes out decent bass weight during Eminem’s Without Me.

Many of you will have been waiting for the verdict on Sony’s new receivers. Well, we can confirm that the STR-DG820 has definitely been worth it. If all the new models are as this good – and they can get that Sky HD nonsense sorted out – Onkyo et al had better watch out

[Maul]

To argue your point, please provide another reciever that you compare to the onkyo x05 AVR's, and give me enough info as to convince me to not recommend this receiver to any friends/family?