HDMI enabled Xbox 360

[Damon Payne]

http://www.damonpayne.com/PermaLink,...c65e301b3.aspx

[marzetta7]

Hahahaha. No HD DVD drive. Classic. Just shows how much Microsoft is behind their format of choice...not.

[ra1024]

I was thinking the same thing. They don't seem to have a lot of faith in the format if they release an updated machine without a high def drive. I think it's funny that the machine is going to cost as much as a 20G PS3 but still doesn't have an HD drive or Bluetooth.

I suspect the real reason for this is they intend to start pushing movie downloads and the 360 needs HDMI and a bigger drive for that to be viable.

[jorg]

micro soft alredy said they wont include a hdmi port

[Damon Payne]

Its all but official Jorg.

The point, as I stated in my article, is that this decision very much validates many of the PS3 design choices. What we've heard in the past is that consumers don't want this stuff and the PS3 is too expensive, and now we see an XBox with more playstation3-esque features and a very high price tag. Guess Sony is not so crazy after all?

[WriteSimply]

This is like throwing money after bad.

Damon already said it succinctly: This is going to be a PS3-wannabe, except that at THAT price, it still won't have a HD-DVD drive. It would be crazy for any of the X-Box 360 fanbois or fans in general to NOT see this as it is. All it takes is for Phil Harrison to spin this version as a PS3-wannabe. Then it'd be fun to see Peter Moore counter that argument, if he can.


fuad

[Maximus]

At $480 in August, it is going to have a tough time competing with the PS3 which will more than likely have had or will have a price cut in September or October. It just seems like a bad idea to price it so high.

On different note, it includes HDMI 1.3, but it seems a bit pointless as games only ever use DD sound or DTS. The only reason that Sony included HDMI 1.3 was the prospect of using a 12bit palette for some games, but as the X360 is already out with only VGA/component, games with a 10/12bit palette will be incompatible with the older version. MS would have been better of sticking with HDMI 1.1a as it is cheaper to implement.

[Shin-Ra]

There's already some difference in performance with games running through component and VGA (usually more tearing through VGA) so it'd be interesting to see if catalogue games have compatibility or performance problems through HDMI. Microsoft 'broke' the VSync in Dead Rising with a simple firmware update (fall'06 update) to the existing models so that it started tearing nearly constantly through VGA instead of occasionally, and haven't fixed it.

It was around that time that I stopped tolerating the 360's tearing problems. I expected developers to find a better balance between visual quality and performance a year after launch but it didn't happen.

[jermwhl]

You still will have to buy wireless adapters and a charging station for wireless controllers? Microsoft just plain sucks! That is horrible. And not putting the HD-DVD into the unit..........retarted! I think the add-on is absolutely ugly and wouldn't buy it, just for that reason. As a matter of fact, I was seriously considering buy an Xbox 360 once they released a newer version, if it had HD-DVD built in. Guess i can scrap that idea.
I'm not a hater towards HD-DVD or Xbox, but Microsoft is making some serious mistakes in their marketing of this whole thing!

[Blubaru]

Originally Posted by jermwhl

You still will have to buy wireless adapters and a charging station for wireless controllers? Microsoft just plain sucks! That is horrible. And not putting the HD-DVD into the unit..........retarted! I think the add-on is absolutely ugly and wouldn't buy it, just for that reason. As a matter of fact, I was seriously considering buy an Xbox 360 once they released a newer version, if it had HD-DVD built in. Guess i can scrap that idea.
I'm not a hater towards HD-DVD or Xbox, but Microsoft is making some serious mistakes in their marketing of this whole thing!

The PS3 used Blu-ray for games.

The 360 dose not use HD-DVD for games.

Gamers will be stuck with a internal $200 piece of crap when HD-DVD dies.

The PS3 can still use the Blu-ray for games if Blu-ray were to fail.

[Damon Payne]

Regarding pricing and price cuts:

-The Xbox360 is 6-10million sales worldwide, already profitable, and in a much better price-cut position than the PS3, yet we see a more expensive unit using mostly "nothing new" components. The PS3 just launched, I don't think any console has ever had price cuts less than a year after launch, and it is using components that are new. I seriously doubt we'll be seeing a PS3 price cut this year, the numbers don't add up. A more expensive Xbox360 that validates the PS3 design decisions in some ways relieves pressure to cut the PS3 cost.
Fanboys are the vocal minority, the rest of the console buying public will see the PS3 as not such a bad deal after all. It's unfortunate for the early adopters that they might want to upgrade their console now, but I'd see the reasons if Sony did likewise down the line.

Regarding Microsoft's "mistakes": I deal with MSFT technology (.NET developer) day-in, day-out but have always favored Sony consoles and PC games on Windows. MSFT has executed so many things so incredibly well and wisely on the Xbox360 that its myopic and false to claim they are making mistakes left and right.

Consider:
1) They compete with Sony, they can't let Sony "have" the livingroom, of course they are going to try to douse the PS3 with an HD-DVD add on.
2) Technical requirement for Xbox360 games: the user can choose the in-game music be replaced by soundtracks on the HD. You're telling me you wouldn't like that in MotorStorm, et all?
3) All 360 games must support Live in some small way, even if just online scores.
4) All games use a common interface to Live, cross-game chat is included, etc.
5) Development for Xbox360 leverages the same APIs as PC development: DirectX, modified win32 API, etc. Barrier to entry is much lower.
6) I have XNA game studio on this PC. Price: free. I can write to the XBox360 APIs and if I come up with something cool $99 buys the subscription service to publish my game.
7) Background downloading, up-scaling of legacy games to HD resolution.
etc, etc, etc.

I believe the PS3 is very powerful and Sony is catching up VERY quickly and innovating new and different things at the same time. I believe public perception is shifting to see the method in the Sony madness, Blu-Ray is winning, the PS3 games are rolling out, the PS3 doesn't look like such a bad deal anymore.
Not recognizing what the competition is doing right makes one sound like an irrational fanboy. Consumers win when the pressure is on.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by Blubaru

The PS3 used Blu-ray for games.

The 360 dose not use HD-DVD for games.

Gamers will be stuck with a internal $200 piece of crap when HD-DVD dies.

The PS3 can still use the Blu-ray for games if Blu-ray were to fail.

I see what you're saying. Microsoft doesn't even have the faith in HD-DVD as a format. Otherwise, they'd put HD-DVD in.

So I guess this means that eventually there will be a BD add-on for X-Box 720. Urgh. I feel so dirty just thinking about it.


fuad

[MrBogey]

I had heard that MS's console unit wasn't expecting profitability till later this year.

As to the price of the PS3. The biggest cost to it was the blu-ray drive. blu-ray is dropping in price fairly steadily that I imagine their launchday costs are already quite lower.

I personally would have rathered if MS went for a HTPC xbox design instead of the elite. Try and snooker the higher-end market that PS3 is doing well with.

[Shadowself]

There is supposedly going to be no HD DVD in a possible future Xbox because Microsoft is not really behind the HD DVD format -- at least that's my opinion and the opinion of over 90% of the people I now.

True, Microsoft would have the possibility of making money off every HD DVD sold and every HD DVD player sold because of iHD (now called HDi). However, that is a small amount compared to possible money to be made off VC-1 if they can make THAT the standard for more than just the HD DVD oriented companies. That's where their push is.

Why?

Because if Microsoft can make VC-1 into the next generation compression standard (edging out AVC and others) then they can command huge royalties not only on players that play physical media, but also command royalties on a huge percentage of the visual media in any conveyed means (physical media, wireless [OTA and satellite], Internet, Cable, etc.).

Since the mid 80s Microsoft has played the long game and only the long game. They are looking 5-10 years down the road. If Microsoft can keep the fomat confusion (we probably can't really call it a war any more) going then they have a reasonable chance to keep pushing their compression scheme. Anygroup that is using iHD is automatically going to seriously consider VC-1 and some Blu-ray groups are seriously considering it too.

Microsoft does not have to commit to include a more expensive drive in the Xbox. (And no matter what the HD DVD fanboys try to claim, the HD DVD drive is more expensive than a DVD drive and will be for another year or more.) Doing so would cost them more money now with very little chance of making that money back in the long term (remember the long game).

Conversely if they can get their video systems (including online market places and online market places of licensees) centered around VC-1 and other Microsoft technologies then Microsoft can utilize the "Live" capabilities of an Xbox 360 or an enhanced Xbox 360 to be the media center for the home. Someone want to make a direct competitor to Apple's new AppleTV? Microsoft will license the software to them -- both for the online store and for the box. Will the streams be in MPEG-2 or AVC? No. They'll be in VC-1. Someone want to build a home theatre system for sale as a pre configured system? Microsoft will be only too glad to help them develop it -- but only if you use Microsoft's tools such as VC-1 (among others, maybe even iHD).

That's Microsoft's long term plan anyway. It's just the way they think. It's never been about HD DVD for them.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

True, Microsoft would have the possibility of making money off every HD DVD sold and every HD DVD player sold because of iHD (now called HDi). However, that is a small amount compared to possible money to be made off VC-1 if they can make THAT the standard for more than just the HD DVD oriented companies. That's where their push is.

Why?

Because if Microsoft can make VC-1 into the next generation compression standard (edging out AVC and others) then they can command huge royalties not only on players that play physical media, but also command royalties on a huge percentage of the visual media in any conveyed means (physical media, wireless [OTA and satellite], Internet, Cable, etc.).

Yep.

That's why I avoid it. And WMV as well. We all end up paying more than we need to..and then they will jack up the price so that it's more than the cost of the hardware. And you won't be able to access it on anything but a windows box - certainly not a Mac or Linux. Think Office file formats as their model.

600-700 dollars for Office Ultimate Premium whatever - to write a resume? Give me a break.

[helli3yte]

so why does microsoft give a rats ass about hd dvd anyway. they support it, i understand that but come on there has to be another reason. yeah they want blu ray to lose but look at all the great things blu ray has already accomplished. great movies, dynomite audio and a helluva lot of extra space to boot. i just think that hd-dvd is a lost cause. i dont think that the war will that quickly as some of you might think. but i do think that when it does happen microsoft will be shitting in their pants let alone toshiba. sorry im drunk. and forgive me if i posted in the wrong section


the drunk stages.

please dont hurt me. lol.

[Nismobeach]

Originally Posted by helli3yte

so why does microsoft give a rats ass about hd dvd anyway. they support it, i understand that but come on there has to be another reason. yeah they want blu ray to lose but look at all the great things blu ray has already accomplished. great movies, dynomite audio and a helluva lot of extra space to boot. i just think that hd-dvd is a lost cause. i dont think that the war will that quickly as some of you might think. but i do think that when it does happen microsoft will be shitting in their pants let alone toshiba. sorry im drunk. and forgive me if i posted in the wrong section


the drunk stages.

please dont hurt me. lol.

It was already mentioned a few posts up. Microsoft is just dragging out the format war by propping up HD-DVD just so they can push their HD download service. Digital 1080p HD downloads are not realistic ATM because the files are too big and people's INET connections are not fast enough yet.

[phranctoast]

I hope MS crashes and burns due to their support of HDDVD to spite Sony and blu ray. In the long run I hope no one goes with vc-1 ( i dont find it any better than mpeg2 at all...excluding the bad earlier releases) and they all go with avc and mpeg2.

Then they will eventually realize how much money they are losing on royalties due to them being spiteful against sony and their format.

In all honesty. MS should jump ship and support bluray now in their new machine ,and end the format war.

[Damon Payne]

Looks like Tycho (penny arcade) agrees with me:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/03/21/#22092

[Rustmonsteru]

Originally Posted by Nismobeach

Digital 1080p HD downloads are not realistic ATM because the files are too big and people's INET connections are not fast enough yet.

I prefer to own a physical object rather than download anyway.
It takes up a lot physical real world space but somehow I find that comforting.