Pink Floyd SACD problem... - Blu-ray Forum

doctorsteve · 01-14-2009, 05:01 PM

So I'm playing Dark Side of the Moon SA-CD...

Several times, I KNOW there's stuff missing...

On multi-channel SACD feed it's missing
On 2 Ch. SACD feed it's there.

I'm using my PS3. Onkyo 805, and only a 5.0 set up (yes, yes - I know... I need a sub).

Does the absence of a sub (or a 7.1 setup) cause some kind of sound downgrade where I lose half of the coins at the begining of Money, as well as other minutiae when I play the multi-channel feed using the all-channel stereo setting on my Onkyo?

I need my SACD Floyd fix, and stuff's just missin'!!!

Thanks, Doc

phantompwr · 01-14-2009, 05:10 PM

not 100% on this, but All Channel Stereo multiplies a 2ch signal to play out of all the speakers. You want to leave off any DSP like that if the source is already multichannel. Probably your receiver is ignoring all the other channels coming from the PS3 and just copying the front left and right channels.

dobyblue · 01-14-2009, 05:26 PM

phantompwr has nailed your problem dead on.

Please change your TX-SR805 to "PURE AUDIO" or "DIRECT" and you will get the correct 5.0 sound.

You may want to set your speakers to "FULL RANGE" as well so you get everything from the .1 channel mixed into your main speakers.

doctorsteve · 01-14-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

phantompwr has nailed your problem dead on.

Actually, just figured it out... I had used the auto-detect for configuring output over HDMI on the PS3. Few of the output possibilities were checked, Once I checked off a few more of the 5.1 outputs, the missing bits showed up.

My next question though is, how do I know which boxes to check off?

What frequencies should I check off? (it says if your devices do not support those frequencies, your speakers could become damaged.) So should I dig out my Polk Monitor 50 manuals???

But by the way you guys are ALSO correct, toggling between Pure Audio/All Channel Stereo keeps the missing pieces there, but are allocated differently to the speakers - all channel splits it left/right, Pure Audio divvies it up l/r/lsurr/rsurr.

So how 'bout those frequencies?

doctorsteve · 01-14-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

You may want to set your speakers to "FULL RANGE" as well so you get everything from the .1 channel mixed into your main speakers.

Good tip, just checked - they already were set as "full band". Thanks

EDIT: By the way. having changed the audio settings manually on the PS3 Dark Side sounds even more really ridiculously beautiful...

kingofgrills · 01-14-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorsteve

Actually, just figured it out... I had used the auto-detect for configuring output over HDMI on the PS3. Few of the output possibilities were checked, Once I checked off a few more of the 5.1 outputs, the missing bits showed up.

My next question though is, how do I know which boxes to check off?

What frequencies should I check off? (it says if your devices do not support those frequencies, your speakers could become damaged.) So should I dig out my Polk Monitor 50 manuals???

But by the way you guys are ALSO correct, toggling between Pure Audio/All Channel Stereo keeps the missing pieces there, but are allocated differently to the speakers - all channel splits it left/right, Pure Audio divvies it up l/r/lsurr/rsurr.

So how 'bout those frequencies?

No worries. The spec limitations the PS3 message is warning against has to do with the sampling rate limitations of the receiver, not the frequency limits of the speakers. Since your 805 has 192kHz / 24 bit DACs on all channels, it will handle anything the PS3 can throw at it through an HDMI connection. I have mine running through my Yamaha at the max, 176.4kHz, and you should do the same with your Onkyo.

Simply have the PS3 via HDMI set to auto detect, and it will check all the boxes. You should be fine with that one. Just be careful to check which SACD track or Blu-ray audio track you select when playing a disc. The default track selected is not always the track you want.

It's funny, but I cranked up my DSOTM SACD in my PS3 last night too. It's probably the 3rd disc based copy I've had, including the gold superbit remastered CD. I'm still stunned at how incredible the SACD copy sounds, especially the 5.1 channel mix. I'm normally a big 2-channel fan, but Pink Floyd lends itself naturally to surround sound.

doctorsteve · 01-14-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

No worries. The spec limitations the PS3 message is warning against has to do with the sampling rate limitations of the receiver, not the frequency limits of the speakers. Since your 805 has 192kHz / 24 bit DACs on all channels, it will handle anything the PS3 can throw at it through an HDMI connection. I have mine running through my Yamaha at the max, 176.4kHz, and you should do the same with your Onkyo.

Good to know...

Quote:

Simply have the PS3 via HDMI set to auto detect, and it will check all the boxes.

Auto detect only checked off:
Dolby digital 5.1
linear pcm 2 ch 44.1 kHz
linear PCM 2 ch 48 kHz

it checked off NO 5.1 set ups (nor 7.1)

Users may want to be aware of this... can't believe what I was missing, wonder what I've been missing from Blu-rays...

SDon1969 · 01-14-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

It's funny, but I cranked up my DSOTM SACD in my PS3 last night too. It's probably the 3rd disc based copy I've had, including the gold superbit remastered CD. I'm still stunned at how incredible the SACD copy sounds, especially the 5.1 channel mix. I'm normally a big 2-channel fan, but Pink Floyd lends itself naturally to surround sound.

Agreed, they really took advanatge of the format on DSOTM - it sounds fantastic in 5.1!

kingofgrills · 01-14-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorsteve

Good to know...

Auto detect only checked off:
Dolby digital 5.1
linear pcm 2 ch 44.1 kHz
linear PCM 2 ch 48 kHz

it checked off NO 5.1 set ups (nor 7.1)

Users may want to be aware of this... can't believe what I was missing, wonder what I've been missing from Blu-rays...

That's really odd. I've never seen the HDMI autodetect setting do that before. And you're connected via HDMI to the 805, right? Hopefully some Onkyo users can weigh in on this one, because I'm not sure what's going on with the receiver.

dobyblue · 01-14-2009, 07:26 PM

That is weird, my PS3 checks ALL options on and it's hooked up to an 805.
Must be the HDMI chipset firmware perhaps.

Easiest way to do it manually is turn on the 5.1 176.4 and 192 options (leave 7.1 blank, no point checking it off) and the 2.0 176.4 and 192 options as that will automatically turn on the lesser frequencies too.

The Onkyo has 24/192 DAC's, the frequencies have nothing to do with speakers.

But still, for the multi-channel mix you want DIRECT or PURE AUDIO - that'll give you the best sound.
And yes, DSOTM on SACD is freaking amazing, clarity, clarity, clarity!

doctorsteve · 01-14-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

That is weird, my PS3 checks ALL options on and it's hooked up to an 805.
Must be the HDMI chipset firmware perhaps.

And yes, DSOTM on SACD is freaking amazing, clarity, clarity, clarity!

Weird, agreed.
Amazing, agreed.

I even checked off some boxes and re-ran the auto detect... same 3 initial boxes got rechecked and the others were disabled. So I rechecked all except 7.1, played the disc, then had to smoke a cigarette.

...and yes, PS3 to 805 via hdmi...

phantompwr · 01-15-2009, 03:37 PM

This thread got me thinking... Does any version of the PS3 play SACDs? I have the 40GB and although I have DSotM on bootleg DVD-A, I might like to check out this version, and maybe some jazz albums that I wished came out on DVD-A instead.

dobyblue · 01-15-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantompwr

This thread got me thinking... Does any version of the PS3 play SACDs? I have the 40GB and although I have DSotM on bootleg DVD-A, I might like to check out this version, and maybe some jazz albums that I wished came out on DVD-A instead.

For North America the 60GB and 20GB versions are SACD compatible, decimating DSD to PCM at 24/176.4 - the playback is of a very high calibre.

If you're just looking for a good SACD player with low cost, the Pioneer Elite DV-48 is $99 shipped from Vanns and has an HDMI 1.2 interface so it can bitstream DSD.

SDon1969 · 01-15-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

For North America the 60GB and 20GB versions are SACD compatible, decimating DSD to PCM at 24/176.4 - the playback is of a very high calibre.

How about the 80 gig PS3? That's what I have (got it right before they dropped them) and it plays the DSOTM SACD...

dobyblue · 01-15-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDon1969

How about the 80 gig PS3? That's what I have (got it right before they dropped them) and it plays the DSOTM SACD...

The DSOTM SACD is a hybrid SACD.
Your PS3 is playing the CD layer of the disc.
When you go into the MUSIC section of your PS3, if your PS3 supports SACD it will look as though there are 3 discs loaded. One will say "CD", one will say "SACD Stereo" and one will say "SACD Multi", then you pick the one you want.

If your PS3 doesn't support SACD it will only show you one disc loaded, with "CD" beside it.

SDon1969 · 01-15-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

The DSOTM SACD is a hybrid SACD.
Your PS3 is playing the CD layer of the disc.
When you go into the MUSIC section of your PS3, if your PS3 supports SACD it will look as though there are 3 discs loaded. One will say "CD", one will say "SACD Stereo" and one will say "SACD Multi", then you pick the one you want.

If your PS3 doesn't support SACD it will only show you one disc loaded, with "CD" beside it.

Okay yes that is exactly what I saw, thanks, multiple choices for playback, so I guess we can add the 80 gig PS3 as a North American SACD PS3 player. It sounded fantastic but it is the only SACD I've tried (or own) right now.

SDon1969 · 01-15-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDon1969

Okay yes that is exactly what I saw, thanks, multiple choices for playback, so I guess we can add the 80 gig PS3 as a North American SACD PS3 player. It sounded fantastic but it is the only SACD I've tried (or own) right now.

Hate to quote myself, but that 80 gb statement looks wrong. If my poking around is correct (maybe someone can confirm?), the 80 gb model did at one time support SACD playback (like mine does) but that it has now been stripped of that capability. See the chart in the wiki link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3

dobyblue · 01-15-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDon1969

Hate to quote myself, but that 80 gb statement looks wrong. If my poking around is correct (maybe someone can confirm?), the 80 gb model did at one time support SACD playback (like mine does) but that it has now been stripped of that capability. See the chart in the wiki link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3

It looks like the 80GB Motostorm and MGS4 editions support SACD.
The regular 80GB models do not.

SDon1969 · 01-16-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It looks like the 80GB Motostorm and MGS4 editions support SACD.
The regular 80GB models do not.

That's it, dobyblue, I got the Motorstorm 80gb bundle.

Clark Kent · 01-16-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It looks like the 80GB Motostorm and MGS4 editions support SACD.
The regular 80GB models do not.

That is correct.

01-14-2009, 05:01 PM	#1
doctorsteve Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:Tonawanda, NY Home Theater Gallery:15 Blu-ray collection:188 Blu-ray reviews:16	Pink Floyd SACD problem... So I'm playing Dark Side of the Moon SA-CD... Several times, I KNOW there's stuff missing... On multi-channel SACD feed it's missing On 2 Ch. SACD feed it's there. I'm using my PS3. Onkyo 805, and only a 5.0 set up (yes, yes - I know... I need a sub). Does the absence of a sub (or a 7.1 setup) cause some kind of sound downgrade where I lose half of the coins at the begining of Money, as well as other minutiae when I play the multi-channel feed using the all-channel stereo setting on my Onkyo? I need my SACD Floyd fix, and stuff's just missin'!!! Thanks, Doc

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01-14-2009, 05:10 PM	#2
phantompwr Active Member Member since:Apr 2008 Location:Cape Cod, MA Home Theater Gallery:16 Blu-ray collection:63	not 100% on this, but All Channel Stereo multiplies a 2ch signal to play out of all the speakers. You want to leave off any DSP like that if the source is already multichannel. Probably your receiver is ignoring all the other channels coming from the PS3 and just copying the front left and right channels.

01-14-2009, 05:26 PM	#3
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	phantompwr has nailed your problem dead on. Please change your TX-SR805 to "PURE AUDIO" or "DIRECT" and you will get the correct 5.0 sound. You may want to set your speakers to "FULL RANGE" as well so you get everything from the .1 channel mixed into your main speakers.

01-14-2009, 07:26 PM	#10
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	That is weird, my PS3 checks ALL options on and it's hooked up to an 805. Must be the HDMI chipset firmware perhaps. Easiest way to do it manually is turn on the 5.1 176.4 and 192 options (leave 7.1 blank, no point checking it off) and the 2.0 176.4 and 192 options as that will automatically turn on the lesser frequencies too. The Onkyo has 24/192 DAC's, the frequencies have nothing to do with speakers. But still, for the multi-channel mix you want DIRECT or PURE AUDIO - that'll give you the best sound. And yes, DSOTM on SACD is freaking amazing, clarity, clarity, clarity!

01-15-2009, 03:37 PM	#12
phantompwr Active Member Member since:Apr 2008 Location:Cape Cod, MA Home Theater Gallery:16 Blu-ray collection:63	This thread got me thinking... Does any version of the PS3 play SACDs? I have the 40GB and although I have DSotM on bootleg DVD-A, I might like to check out this version, and maybe some jazz albums that I wished came out on DVD-A instead.

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