Patent lawsuit against Vizio

[m_tyson]

I see that the original thread in this forum was closed. Anyone have an update?

[WickyWoo]

There won't be any update for months, if not years

These things take forever

The likely endgame will be Vizio shutting its doors and/or selling off its assets to another company (Like Westinghouse sold to Toshiba), and then their Chinese backers will start a new crap brand and start again (just like Vizio arose from the ashes of Cyberhome after their patent lawsuit)

[m_tyson]

I was wondering if the complaint has even been served on Vizio yet, or are the plaintiffs having second thoughts?

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

There won't be any update for months, if not years

These things take forever

The likely endgame will be Vizio shutting its doors and/or selling off its assets to another company (Like Westinghouse sold to Toshiba), and then their Chinese backers will start a new crap brand and start again (just like Vizio arose from the ashes of Cyberhome after their patent lawsuit)

[WickyWoo]

There wouldn't have been press without it being served

[m_tyson]

Not true. News coverage started no later than June 3, after the complaint was filed on June 2. I just pulled the case docket, and Vizio was not served until June 6.

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

There wouldn't have been press without it being served

FYI - An amended complaint was filed on June 12, and delivered via FedEx on June 13. An answer will be due in a few weeks...

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by m_tyson

Not true. News coverage started no later than June 3, after the complaint was filed on June 2. I just pulled the case docket, and Vizio was not served until June 6.



FYI - An amended complaint was filed on June 12, and delivered via FedEx on June 13. An answer will be due in a few weeks...

ha.





I wonder what the facts of the case are. I have a feeling there is a little of one and a little of the other... If they had a solid case, Vizio would have already shut down and went away. If they have an alright case, I expect that Vizio settles. If they have a garbage case, I expect that it it tried...


I think it is VERY unlikely Vizio gets a ruling against it. If WickyWoo is right they will just fold out before they have to pay for lawyers. If he is wrong they will settle it up before a Judge starts hearing about it.

Either way, Vizio will be around for a few more years while they sort it out.

[WickyWoo]

Not true. News coverage started no later than June 3, after the complaint was filed on June 2. I just pulled the case docket, and Vizio was not served until June 6.

My crystal ball does not reach into the legal departments

wonder what the facts of the case are. I have a feeling there is a little of one and a little of the other... If they had a solid case, Vizio would have already shut down and went away. If they have an alright case, I expect that Vizio settles. If they have a garbage case, I expect that it it tried...

Vizio knows they can get another Christmas out where they will make millions more than the lawyers will cost them before the thing ever goes to trial, hell maybe two if they get enough stalling tactics going.

Like I said, not paying IP patents is SOP for every other cheapass company that shows up. Avex, Cyberhome etc. I seriously doubt Vizio will be any different

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Vizio knows they can get another Christmas out where they will make millions more than the lawyers will cost them before the thing ever goes to trial, hell maybe two if they get enough stalling tactics going.

Like I said, not paying IP patents is SOP for every other cheapass company that shows up. Avex, Cyberhome etc. I seriously doubt Vizio will be any different

Very true... though, I doubt you'll see them much into next year. The same basic company (management, production lines, etc.) will still be in use, but the company will likely be officially disbanded in favor of an identical company under a new name before they rack up too much in legal fees.

Welcome to business in China.

[m_tyson]

I expect that either (a - most likely) there was no patent violation at all, or (b - less likely) any owed payments will be made as Vizio enjoys a superior profit margin to its competitors and continue to grow marketshare. I think Vizio and other Chinese-based commercial powers are here to stay.

[WickyWoo]

I expect that either (a - most likely) there was no patent violation at all, or (b - less likely) any owed payments will be made as Vizio enjoys a superior profit margin to its competitors and continue to grow marketshare. I think Vizio and other Chinese-based commercial powers are here to stay.

You're missing what I'm saying

The same money is behind all of these companies. Instead of paying the royalties they shut the door and run. Then they move next door and start Jizio or Baypex Or CyberTheater and crank the operation anew.

They're all fronts for Chinese OEM companies, and if they go back to them, the Triads that are behind THEM will still be around to start another one.

[BTBuck1]

vizio apolgists....never thought i'd see the day

[m_tyson]

No, I've heard you say it many times over. I just think that times have changed and LG/Mitsu/Samsung/Sony/etc. are going to have their hands full this time. Of course, I could be 100% wrong.

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

You're missing what I'm saying

The same money is behind all of these companies. Instead of paying the royalties they shut the door and run. Then they move next door and start Jizio or Baypex Or CyberTheater and crank the operation anew.

They're all fronts for Chinese OEM companies, and if they go back to them, the Triads that are behind THEM will still be around to start another one.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

then their Chinese backers will start a new crap brand and start again (just like Vizio arose from the ashes of Cyberhome after their patent lawsuit)

I never knew this but I ain't surprised.

I had a Cyberhome DVD player once; it was a free gift. My friends offered it as an alternative to my dying PS2. First and only time I used it, the little scrap heap overheated halfway through Empire Strikes Back. Haven't touched it since then, and the only reason it's still around is I haven't remembered to go recycle it.

I think I learned somewhere along the way to only get top tier electronics, barring extensive homework on lesser brands.

[WickyWoo]

That's one of the big reasons why Blu-ray has so many tight controls on it. I have even heard from several people (but not verified) that before Chinese factories will be allowed to make players that they will have to pay royalties upfront, submit to random inspections and audits,and the same with their security around the copy protection features.

I want to clarify. I'm not saying that Vizio is a direct relative of Cyberhome necessarily, just that the same mechanisms and likely the same money if you trace it back far enough are behind them

No, I've heard you say it many times over. I just think that times have changed and LG/Mitsu/Samsung/Sony/etc. are going to have their hands full this time. Of course, I could be 100% wrong.

Apex was wiping the floor with everyone on DVD players too, and then they were sued into oblivion for the same thing.

[ThePhantomOak]

I think the major point you are trying to get across is China has zero accountability for its manufacturing.

I agree. They produce bullshit, and it is bought, and then someone figures out watching a Atom Bomb from 30 feet is safer than eating dog food or watching a Vizio

I have not had the chance to look at china much from their Economic growth perspective, but they general idea is that without better control and a home market (the largest mall in the world is 99.2% empty; 12 stores of 1500 spaces) their amazing growth will be stalling in the next few years.

Already there is a big backlash against their products...





I aint saying you are wrong, I am just saying Vizio will either be gone with no announcement (if there is a good case) or stay around for a lot longer (because they fill a big part of a market that no other TV does).

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

That's one of the big reasons why Blu-ray has so many tight controls on it. I have even heard from several people (but not verified) that before Chinese factories will be allowed to make players that they will have to pay royalties upfront, submit to random inspections and audits,and the same with their security around the copy protection features.

I want to clarify. I'm not saying that Vizio is a direct relative of Cyberhome necessarily, just that the same mechanisms and likely the same money if you trace it back far enough are behind them



Apex was wiping the floor with everyone on DVD players too, and then they were sued into oblivion for the same thing.

[tmok2000]

What's with this Vizio bashing? I thought they make good TV. I don't own one, but saw them in Costco. They seem decent.

Also, what's with this Chinese bashing? Even if a company has issues doesn't mean that all Chinese products are bad. The iPhone, made in China, is a fine example. Also, most of the world's laptop computers (HP, Dell, Lenovo, Asus) are made in China. Most of the cell phones (Nokia, Motorola) are made in China. Welcome to the world of contract manufacturing. I shake my head when I hear people complain about our manufacturing jobs being lost to other countries. We should look on the brighter side -- we have moved on from manufacturing to higher industries, such as services, management, and research. This is not unlike we moved on from agriculture to manufacturing some years back. Without cheap manufacturing, an iPhone would have been $699, instead of $299. A PS3 would be too cost prohibitive for most of you to own. There will be no sub-$100 Blu-ray players that we are all waiting for. In fact, the Blu-ray industry will never take off if no one could afford the players.

The world is very hungry for cheap Chinese made products. If it were not China, it will be some other countries. I found it ironic that we are now blaming China for everything. We should be thankful to their contribution to advancing the world's standards of living. Without them, who could afford buying a PC, laptop, cell phone, LCD TV, gaming console, and Blu-ray player?

[WickyWoo]

I think the major point you are trying to get across is China has zero accountability for its manufacturing.

Well, that's not the point that I'm trying to make. I'm saying that China, like everywhere else is full of unethical people trying to make a fast buck with the least upfront investment they can, and if the government isn't going to chase after them, so much the better

What's with this Vizio bashing? I thought they make good TV. I don't own one, but saw them in Costco. They seem decent.

That's the problem. People see it as bashing. Sometimes the truth is hardly complementary

Also, what's with this Chinese bashing? Even if a company has issues doesn't mean that all Chinese products are bad. The iPhone, made in China, is a fine example. Also, most of the world's laptop computers (HP, Dell, Lenovo, Asus) are made in China. Most of the cell phones (Nokia, Motorola) are made in China.

And in a few years they'll be made in Vietnam because the Chinese workers are demanding fair pay and decent hours. And after that, Iraq, Afghanistan, who knows.

I suggest you watch the recent Panorama episode on UK brand Primark will be my only comment on the rest of it. It should be on Google video. Just change india to china

[kingofgrills]

Vizio was founded in Irvine, California, and that is where corporate headquarters resides today. Like any major manufacturer today, including Sony, Microsoft, Toshiba, and Nike they source parts from contract manufacturers around the world. Yes, many of those source manufacturers are in China, but that scenario is certainly not something unique to Vizio. China's economy is pretty much the fastest growing economy in the world, and it is largely due to how fiercely they're competing in electronics and textile manufacturing.

Vizio has been very successful because they focused their efforts on developing strategic partnerships on the distribution side with Costco, Walmart, and Sam's Club being the most notable. I don't think Vizio is going to give up the brand recognition and distribution arms they've developed, because of a law suit. If they can find a way to get past the lawsuit and move on, that's what they'll do.

I've never bought a Vizio television, nor would I consider myself a fan. However, they do offer a number of budget priced sets that I would possibly consider given the right circumstances.

Anyway, Vizio is a US company based in California and not some shady Chinese company. The founder, William Wang, was born in Taiwan and raised in Hawaii. Here's a Wall Street Journal article on the company:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1208...hpp_us_pageone

It's a pretty positive story. I guess I like the fact that Vizio has been instrumental in the overal decline of flat panel TV prices. Now, we just need the same sort of pressure placed on BD player prices.

[WickyWoo]

Vizio was founded in Irvine, California, and that is where corporate headquarters resides today. Like any major manufacturer today, including Sony, Microsoft, Toshiba, and Nike they source parts from contract manufacturers around the world. Yes, many of those source manufacturers are in China, but that scenario is certainly not something unique to Vizio. China's economy is pretty much the fastest growing economy in the world, and it is largely due to how fiercely they're competing in electronics and textile manufacturing.

Yes, we've all heard their company line before. As was Apex, as was Cyberhome. Except that they source parts from very specific people in China, often parts, if they do what those companies used to that have been rebranded after they were rejected for better products I might add.

I've been studying the knockoff/bootleg video/CD market in Asia for more than a decade now. I know how these outfits operate backwards and forwards. Electronics, handbags, CDs, doesn't make a lot of difference.

All of the above still applies, as does all the precident from Apex, Cyberhome etc

[mattym]

the chinese manufacturing is geared around copying,. i know as the company i work for is constantly finding chinese companies manufacturing patented products that they shouldnt make.