Why is BD not getting into the price war? - Blu-ray Forum

krisztoforo · 05-30-2007, 05:20 PM

Honestly I'm a bit surprised that none of the blu-ray manufacturers dropped prices to try to match Toshiba's aggressive price cuts. I mean there is a 2-to-1 price difference between the cheapest blu-ray vs hd-dvd unit right now. That's gotta matter to the average buyer who's trying to get into HD.

Zaphod · 05-30-2007, 05:25 PM

Why lower the price when you already have an edge selling your movies over HD-DVD, there is no incentive. Granted you would think this would end the war, but movie studios know this will be going on for some time before a single winner is determined, so there is no reason for them to get into a price war when they can make what they are making now. This sucks I know for consumers but good for the bottom line for studios.

Also the studios don't want to get into what they did with DVD's. Granted there was no price war in formats but one in between studios. In the 90's studios aggressively priced DVD's and the price fell dramatically for the sake of share and for the adoption of the DVD format. This killed the studios and the days of $9.99-$12.99 new releases subsided as well as the $7.99-$9.99 prices for movies that had been out for a couple of months. Now keep in mind this was early in the formats life and the cost per DVD was higher than it is now due to supply, which now the same prices can be attainable in today's market. Thus the studios again have been offering DVD's for dirt cheap for older titles and even new releases as low as $12.99-$14.99.

Josh · 05-30-2007, 05:25 PM

Content is king. No matter how much you drop the cost, its still a player that can only play movies from half the studios that Blu-ray can. You also have to remember, that in many countries, price equals quality. So pricing Blu-ray more will make consumers think it is better.

Then think about what lowering the price does. It lets more people access the technology - true - but only people who spend $2000+ for an HD TV will want it anyways. Are they going to be very concerned about spending an extra couple hundred to get more/better movies? Probably not. HD DVD is aiming low, but they are lower than what the market dictates - to people without HDTVs.

GaS · 05-30-2007, 05:26 PM

I am quite sure the BDA is keeping a close eye on the market. If they see that super cheap prices are having an impact, they will make a move.

JTK · 05-30-2007, 05:27 PM

http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=7325

^^ There's a fairly recent example in there of some more aggressive BD pricing.

krisztoforo · 05-30-2007, 05:34 PM

Yes, blu-ray has the edge right now, but not as solid as I thought..I mean the Planet earth thing has actually sold more in HD-DVD than Blu-ray. Now we can go back and forth about why that is, the bottom line is still that it is selling more. I just don't think it's a wise move for Blu-ray to let HD-DVD gain install base, it can easily backfire.

Zaphod · 05-30-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisztoforo

Now we can go back and forth about why that is, the bottom line is still that it is selling more.

Yes but you are talking about one title, one title does not a format make. There are plenty of HD-DVD/Blu-ray movies where the Blu-ray outsells that of the HD-DVD, a lot more actually.

krisztoforo · 05-30-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Yes but you are talking about one title, one title does not a format make. There are plenty of HD-DVD/Blu-ray movies where the Blu-ray outsells that of the HD-DVD, a lot more actually.

That's true, but unfortunately Universal won't concede as long as there are examples like the above mentioned title.

blitz6speed · 05-30-2007, 05:54 PM

Sony

Pioneer

Panasonic

These companys are honorable japanese companys who are the TOP TIER of CE products around the world. They did not get to where they are by having fire sales on faulty hardware. Seriously, everyone needs to relax, i know that people are upset, so am i. The cancled titles, the firesale by toshiba, the mysterious Matrix 19.99 sale that got honored amung THOUSANDS of people, and the hd-dvd zealots crowing about the a2 sales at amazon.

At the end of the day, they still have nothing left in their arseonal and nothing coming up that will hold a candle. All hd-dvd has is fire sales on hardware. Their software lineup is absymal. Also, toshiba screwed themselves. With the A2 at 234 at amazon, who in their right mind would EVER pay more then 250 at this point for any hd-dvd player? If they were that price once, the low end can never be above that. Thats it.

HDTV1080P · 05-30-2007, 05:58 PM

If one looks at DVD player prices today they well see some DVD players for $19.99 and lower. There are many quality DVD players around $50. One can even purchase a 1080P HDMI upconvert DVD player for under $50. The playstation 2 which plays DVD movies sales for $129.99.
My main point is just like the Playstation 2 is more expensive then the average DVD player the same thing will happen to the BLU-RAY format over time. One day the Playstation 3 will be one of the most expensive BLU-RAY players compared to the average selling price of other BLU-RAY players. Perhaps late this year we might see BLU-RAY players for $399 and lower.
The BLU-RAY camp is already bringing prices down. Pioneer announced their second generation BLU-RAY player with a price of only $1,000 compared to the first generation Pioneer which was selling for $1500. Panasonic has done an amazing thing of lowering its price from $1300 to $599. That’s a $700 savings plus they are giving away free BLU-RAY movies. Sony has lowered their price from $999 to $599 with the coming second generation BLU-RAY player,
HD-DVD players are always going to be cheaper then BLU-RAY players. One day a HD-DVD player might sale for $49.99 and a BLU-RAY player will be $199.99.

Longshot · 05-30-2007, 06:01 PM

I agree with Chris B in a previous thread. People are just fliiping out over every little thing and making the same tyring arguemnts again and again. If the BDA feels threatened by Toshiba they will adjust accordingly

Let's see what the sales figures are for the week ended 5/28. So what will the zealots say when their proclaimed "Holy Grail of HD", The Matrix failed to outsell either Pirates and possibly Apocalypto? I mean how could this be. The Matrix is assuredly the be all and end all that will pull thousands upon thousand of new customers into the HD DVD camp right? Plus their practically giving these players away. If I'm a Toshiba shareholder I really have to question their business plan.

JTK · 05-30-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot

I agree with Chris B in a previous thread. People are just fliiping out over every little thing and making the same tyring arguemnts again and again. If the BDA feels threatened by Toshiba they will adjust accordingly

Let's see what the sales figures are for the week ended 5/28. So what will the zealots say when their proclaimed "Holy Grail of HD", The Matrix failed to outsell either Pirates and possibly Apocalypto? I mean how could this be. The Matrix is assuredly the be all and end all that will pull thousands upon thousand of new customers into the HD DVD camp right? Plus their practically giving these players away.

If I'm a Toshiba shareholder I really have to question their business plan.

I feel more sorry for those people each and every day.

k20king · 05-30-2007, 06:43 PM

Ehem...

Well Sony did do a marketing counter attack with the great bundle that is available with a purchase of a PS3 and they had POTC come out, so toshiba made a move b4 all of this to try to win a weekend battle.

There is no need for BD to drop. HD DVD is losing so they really needed to adjust prices.

The Don · 05-30-2007, 08:43 PM

I've seen more and more sale prices on BD players that have come down some...

the Sony 999.99 player was around 750 and the newer samsung model at 600...

it's at least a start....by christmas, I think BD will really bring the prices down...

aaronwt · 05-30-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot

I agree with Chris B in a previous thread. People are just fliiping out over every little thing and making the same tyring arguemnts again and again. If the BDA feels threatened by Toshiba they will adjust accordingly

Let's see what the sales figures are for the week ended 5/28. So what will the zealots say when their proclaimed "Holy Grail of HD", The Matrix failed to outsell either Pirates and possibly Apocalypto? I mean how could this be. The Matrix is assuredly the be all and end all that will pull thousands upon thousand of new customers into the HD DVD camp right? Plus their practically giving these players away. If I'm a Toshiba shareholder I really have to question their business plan.

Why would a title that costs 3x as much sell the same amount? That's apples to oranges.

Blue · 05-31-2007, 02:42 PM

Blu-ray is much cheaper than HD-DUD, assuming you purchase movies.
I know this is an inflated price but say $700 for a Blu-ray player vs $300 for a HD-DUD player. 25 Disc's later and you are ahead.

Blu-Ray Buckeye · 05-31-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Why would a title that costs 3x as much sell the same amount? That's apples to oranges.

But somehow when people compare PS3 unit sales against Wii & X-Box that's fair. can't have it both ways, dude.

kjack · 05-31-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisztoforo

I just don't think it's a wise move for Blu-ray to let HD-DVD gain install base, it can easily backfire.

OTOH, having sold even 1M stand-alone players of either format is still relatively insignificant, and would have little influence in the outcome of the format war. The companies involved in the format war think in much bigger numbers than the average person.

HDTV1080P · 05-31-2007, 05:16 PM

Let’s not forget that the PS3 has sold several millions of players for $599. Sony has shipped over 6 million PS3's world wide and many people are buying them for $599. Of course the PS3 is a BLU-RAY game machine first and a BLU-RAY movie player second, but some people have been getting the PS3 just for movie watching. Lets see if Toshiba can catch up to PS3 sales since their HD-DVD player is half the price on the PS3. Last numbers released revealed that Toshiba HD-DVD players sold only 100,000 players. For Toshiba to sale 2-3 million players they may need to lower the price to $99.

dialog_gvf · 05-31-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisztoforo

Honestly I'm a bit surprised that none of the blu-ray manufacturers dropped prices to try to match Toshiba's aggressive price cuts. I mean there is a 2-to-1 price difference between the cheapest blu-ray vs hd-dvd unit right now. That's gotta matter to the average buyer who's trying to get into HD.

Because winning a war isn't the objective. It's building a new profitable business opportunity.

Toshiba isn't selling players at under $300 because they can, but because they feel they must. But their scorched-earth policy is going to have ramifications.

One is that it is unlikely many CE could make HD DVD players and make money at it. Practically giving them away may work for Toshiba, but everyone else would have to pay Toshiba royalties for the IP and so are immediately uncompetitive if Toshiba is always cutting margins to the bone (or even selling at a loss).

Much cheaper BD players will arrive later in the year. The BDA seems to be targetting Black Friday (day after American Thanksgiving).

Gary

05-30-2007, 05:20 PM	#1
krisztoforo Member Member since:Oct 2006	Why is BD not getting into the price war? Honestly I'm a bit surprised that none of the blu-ray manufacturers dropped prices to try to match Toshiba's aggressive price cuts. I mean there is a 2-to-1 price difference between the cheapest blu-ray vs hd-dvd unit right now. That's gotta matter to the average buyer who's trying to get into HD.

05-30-2007, 05:25 PM	#2
Zaphod Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse. Blu-ray collection:350 Trading Score:4	Why lower the price when you already have an edge selling your movies over HD-DVD, there is no incentive. Granted you would think this would end the war, but movie studios know this will be going on for some time before a single winner is determined, so there is no reason for them to get into a price war when they can make what they are making now. This sucks I know for consumers but good for the bottom line for studios. Also the studios don't want to get into what they did with DVD's. Granted there was no price war in formats but one in between studios. In the 90's studios aggressively priced DVD's and the price fell dramatically for the sake of share and for the adoption of the DVD format. This killed the studios and the days of $9.99-$12.99 new releases subsided as well as the $7.99-$9.99 prices for movies that had been out for a couple of months. Now keep in mind this was early in the formats life and the cost per DVD was higher than it is now due to supply, which now the same prices can be attainable in today's market. Thus the studios again have been offering DVD's for dirt cheap for older titles and even new releases as low as $12.99-$14.99. Last edited by Zaphod; 05-30-2007 at 05:34 PM.

05-30-2007, 05:58 PM	#10
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	If one looks at DVD player prices today they well see some DVD players for $19.99 and lower. There are many quality DVD players around $50. One can even purchase a 1080P HDMI upconvert DVD player for under $50. The playstation 2 which plays DVD movies sales for $129.99. My main point is just like the Playstation 2 is more expensive then the average DVD player the same thing will happen to the BLU-RAY format over time. One day the Playstation 3 will be one of the most expensive BLU-RAY players compared to the average selling price of other BLU-RAY players. Perhaps late this year we might see BLU-RAY players for $399 and lower. The BLU-RAY camp is already bringing prices down. Pioneer announced their second generation BLU-RAY player with a price of only $1,000 compared to the first generation Pioneer which was selling for $1500. Panasonic has done an amazing thing of lowering its price from $1300 to $599. That’s a $700 savings plus they are giving away free BLU-RAY movies. Sony has lowered their price from $999 to $599 with the coming second generation BLU-RAY player, HD-DVD players are always going to be cheaper then BLU-RAY players. One day a HD-DVD player might sale for $49.99 and a BLU-RAY player will be $199.99. Last edited by HDTV1080P; 05-30-2007 at 06:01 PM.

05-31-2007, 05:16 PM	#19
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Let’s not forget that the PS3 has sold several millions of players for $599. Sony has shipped over 6 million PS3's world wide and many people are buying them for $599. Of course the PS3 is a BLU-RAY game machine first and a BLU-RAY movie player second, but some people have been getting the PS3 just for movie watching. Lets see if Toshiba can catch up to PS3 sales since their HD-DVD player is half the price on the PS3. Last numbers released revealed that Toshiba HD-DVD players sold only 100,000 players. For Toshiba to sale 2-3 million players they may need to lower the price to $99. Last edited by HDTV1080P; 05-31-2007 at 05:20 PM. Reason: grammar

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05-30-2007, 05:25 PM	#3
Josh Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Home Theater Gallery:50 4K collection:37 Blu-ray collection:407 Digital collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 15 Trading Score:34	Content is king. No matter how much you drop the cost, its still a player that can only play movies from half the studios that Blu-ray can. You also have to remember, that in many countries, price equals quality. So pricing Blu-ray more will make consumers think it is better. Then think about what lowering the price does. It lets more people access the technology - true - but only people who spend $2000+ for an HD TV will want it anyways. Are they going to be very concerned about spending an extra couple hundred to get more/better movies? Probably not. HD DVD is aiming low, but they are lower than what the market dictates - to people without HDTVs.

05-30-2007, 05:26 PM	#4
GaS Senior Member Member since:Aug 2006	I am quite sure the BDA is keeping a close eye on the market. If they see that super cheap prices are having an impact, they will make a move.

05-30-2007, 05:27 PM	#5
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=7325 ^^ There's a fairly recent example in there of some more aggressive BD pricing.

05-30-2007, 05:34 PM	#6
krisztoforo Member Member since:Oct 2006	Yes, blu-ray has the edge right now, but not as solid as I thought..I mean the Planet earth thing has actually sold more in HD-DVD than Blu-ray. Now we can go back and forth about why that is, the bottom line is still that it is selling more. I just don't think it's a wise move for Blu-ray to let HD-DVD gain install base, it can easily backfire.

05-30-2007, 05:54 PM	#9
blitz6speed Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Anaheim Hills, CA Trading Score:8	Sony Pioneer Panasonic These companys are honorable japanese companys who are the TOP TIER of CE products around the world. They did not get to where they are by having fire sales on faulty hardware. Seriously, everyone needs to relax, i know that people are upset, so am i. The cancled titles, the firesale by toshiba, the mysterious Matrix 19.99 sale that got honored amung THOUSANDS of people, and the hd-dvd zealots crowing about the a2 sales at amazon. At the end of the day, they still have nothing left in their arseonal and nothing coming up that will hold a candle. All hd-dvd has is fire sales on hardware. Their software lineup is absymal. Also, toshiba screwed themselves. With the A2 at 234 at amazon, who in their right mind would EVER pay more then 250 at this point for any hd-dvd player? If they were that price once, the low end can never be above that. Thats it.

05-30-2007, 06:01 PM	#11
Longshot Senior Member Member since:Apr 2006 Blu-ray reviews:2	I agree with Chris B in a previous thread. People are just fliiping out over every little thing and making the same tyring arguemnts again and again. If the BDA feels threatened by Toshiba they will adjust accordingly Let's see what the sales figures are for the week ended 5/28. So what will the zealots say when their proclaimed "Holy Grail of HD", The Matrix failed to outsell either Pirates and possibly Apocalypto? I mean how could this be. The Matrix is assuredly the be all and end all that will pull thousands upon thousand of new customers into the HD DVD camp right? Plus their practically giving these players away. If I'm a Toshiba shareholder I really have to question their business plan.

05-30-2007, 06:43 PM	#13
k20king Senior Member Member since:Feb 2007	Ehem... Well Sony did do a marketing counter attack with the great bundle that is available with a purchase of a PS3 and they had POTC come out, so toshiba made a move b4 all of this to try to win a weekend battle. There is no need for BD to drop. HD DVD is losing so they really needed to adjust prices.

05-30-2007, 08:43 PM	#14
The Don Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Apr 2006 Blu-ray reviews:12 Trading Score:2	I've seen more and more sale prices on BD players that have come down some... the Sony 999.99 player was around 750 and the newer samsung model at 600... it's at least a start....by christmas, I think BD will really bring the prices down...

05-31-2007, 02:42 PM	#16
Blue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jan 2005 Location:Melbourne Australia Blu-ray collection:206	Blu-ray is much cheaper than HD-DUD, assuming you purchase movies. I know this is an inflated price but say $700 for a Blu-ray player vs $300 for a HD-DUD player. 25 Disc's later and you are ahead.

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