8K discussion thread

[Staying Salty]

8K is Closer than You Think

https://displaydaily.com/article/152...than-you-think

However, Samsung had a bad Q2 with its QLED LCD TVs - sales were said to be significantly down between Q1 of this year and Q2, while OLED sales were up. The word on the street from those tracking the market in detail is that at the same price points, Samsung's arguments over colour volume and brightness are just not persuading buyers to buy from them. It's the fantastic black level and contrast of OLED that is winning the sales.

I hear all the time from those that understand the trade off in the visual system between viewing distance and acuity - "They just can't see the difference". However, watch consumers in the stores. They like to get up close to have a really good look at the quality of the image and, there, FullHD, UltraHD and 8K are all clearly different, if the content has not been mangled in the compression. And TV set makers are much less bothered about what their customers watch as about what they buy.

The key point behind the strong move I expect to see from Samsung to 8K at CES is that, as industry analyst, David Barnes, used to say before his retirement (and I miss his great insight!) "For LCD makers, the pixels are free". 8K in cameras, production and transmission is really tricky. But for LCD makers with big fabs, it really isn't.

Our thread for one stop shopping for our 8K news.

My question is, if they build it, will we come?

[grodd]

The QLED is very overpriced for what you get compared to other comparable LCD TV's like Vizio or Sony. In some ways the current QLED is worse than the 2016 models.

Samsung has made some major mistakes lately (especially 2017) and will be interesting to see where they go next year. I don't see 8K next year, and it won't really help with their blooming problems either. They need to look at better local dimmer technology like Sony or they will find themselves dookin it out for bottom place again.

The only saving grace seems to be the anti reflective screen which helps them in brightly lit rooms.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

8K is Closer than You Think

https://displaydaily.com/article/152...than-you-think




Our thread for one stop shopping for our 8K news.

My question is, if they build it, will we come?

I say no, they won't. and that coming from someone who has seen the 8k displays in person. Content is everything, and without that it's meaningless.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by JoeDeM

I say no, they won't. and that coming from someone who has seen the 8k displays in person. Content is everything, and without that it's meaningless.

Amen to that. There is nothing trivial about recording, storing, transporting, and furnishing 8k content via physical storage or over a network. People complain about 2K DI vs 4K DI, what studio is going to provide 8K DI?

[krismate]

Presumably, with 8K TVs (maybe not right out of the gate) would come 12 or 14 bit panels, higher peak brightness etc. Once that happens, yes, people will be buying.

Which is ultimately very frustrating as 4K vs 8K strictly in terms of resolution is a complete waste of bandwidth. Bandwidth we already don't really have. It's too bad the manufacturers don't simply work together a little more and agree to stick with 2160p resolution but increase bit depth and HDR capabilities.

Also, as for Samsung, they are almost certainly going to be releasing an actual QLED soon, as in, an emissive Qdot display similar an OLED.

[ray0414]

8k panels yes, 8k content no. (8k broadcast strictly in Japan doesn't count.)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by ray0414

8k panels yes, 8k content no.

Exactly. 8k displays will be made, for sure, but it's not like there's going to be 8k broadcast, 8k discs or 8k native content for a long ass time.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by ray0414

8k panels yes, 8k content no. (8k broadcast strictly in Japan doesn't count.)

Would like to know why 8K by NHK doesn't count in your estimation?
Early testing will certainly lead to improvements to the final "product" when it is rolled out elsewhere. Also wondering what flavor of HDR is being included?

[Cortiz]

There's a limit of what the human eye can perceive. Just saying....

[LordoftheRings]

Methinks 8K is the gate to the cinema heavens.
Why? Because it will open the doors to 3D in 4K without the 3D glasses.

The most important aspect of it all is; the cinematographers. ...The artists using the technological advanced cameras with red stereoscopic lenses and high frame rates.

Samsung has lost the battle by pushing the obsolete...in the TV picture department, QLED. ...In the opinion of me.

8K and paper thin OLED that you can roll up like a parchment and unroll anywhere you go, plug it in to the black box with the chip, in sizes from 40 to 100 inches, wireless stream of 8K content from your subscribed flick channel, including dts:X and Atmos, plus 3D in 4K ... is the future.

Coming up soon by the year 2030. See you all there ... Wear your prescription glasses if your eyes are less than 20/20 and leave your shades @ home or in your car or both.

[i_max2k2]

Maybe 10 years from now? I have already spent the money I had on my TV, speakers, receiver and movies.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Would like to know why 8K by NHK doesn't count in your estimation?
Early testing will certainly lead to improvements to the final "product" when it is rolled out elsewhere. Also wondering what flavor of HDR is being included?

IMHO because it focused on Live Events rather then films. The storage involved for recording/storing is massive.

If there comes a time that you are actually watching a 8k digital film in the theaters transmitted by satellite link you would be closer to it eventually coming to consumers. After all we are always interested in reproducing what we watch in the best cinema's in our own homes.

Its not worth confusing the non-AV usage such as 8K PC monitors with 2xDisplayPort interfaces for example to perform medical/science related work or to use it for photography mastering.

Below is a example of Dell 32" 8K display for $3899 with a workstation to drive it. Uses 2xDisplayPort Cables



Businessinsider added this caption
So, it's insanely sharp, but there's one big problem: There very little 8K content to view or watch.

And that is what pretty much all have said here!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

The most important aspect of it all is; the cinematographers....

A session at thee upcoming SMPTE 2017 Annual Technical Conference & Exhibition in Hollywood (I’m attending, again this year) is actually devoted to the topic -

Beyond 4K: Can we actually tell stories in motion pictures and TV in 8K? A Cinematography Perspective.
Salon 2

While the full scale implementation of 4K (Ultra HD) is still under way, demos showcasing 8K (Super Hi-Vision) are already being introduced at major industry conferences and shows. While it is part of the strategic plan of some public and private parties, and already standardised (Rec. ITU-R BT.2020, SMPTE ST 2036-1, ARIB STD-B56) the question of the value of 8K as a storytelling tool deserves further consideration.

In this paper, we analyze the relative worth of such a high spatial resolution through the lens (pardon the pun) of temporal resolution and optical flow. Using motion models with real-life footage from some of the most popular recent motion pictures and television shows, the paper clearly demonstrates that even at a frame rate of 120 frames per second, it is nearly impossible to shoot compelling stories that match today's audience expectations while preserving such a high level of spatial resolution, due mainly to motion blur, meaning that the viewer's experience may not be improved by a migration from 4K to 8K.

To achieve an 8K level of resolution on screen (or at least a visible increase in resolution from a 4K source, shown side-by-side), camera motion has to be almost nil. At 8K120, using cameras that are compatible with full-size sensor lenses, an angular motion of only one degree per second in pan or tilt is enough, for example, to negate the increase in resolution. That means that a left to right pan of 45 degrees in a scene would need to last 45 seconds, which is unthinkable in modern cinematography. Progress in bandwidth and compression would be more effectively leveraged in the delivery of "better" pixels, instead of "more" pixels. The author describes several avenues that could be explored using this philosophy, namely the use of ultra high frame rates (240Hz), lesser compression, higher dynamic range and more immersive media.

Speaker:
Pete (see last paragraph)

[TheGuyWhoLovesMovies]

I thought I saw something about Japan already having a 8k tv or 8k broadcasting or something. But why do 8k why not just skip straight to 16k or even 32k?

[Robert Zohn]

Just wanted to make a point for clarification about 8k so no one worries about their new UHD/HDR TV being outdated. 8k will use all of the established HDR standards we are enjoying on our 2016-2017 4K HDR TVs and projectors.

So when 8k contents becomes available it will play beautifully on today's UHD/HDR TVs and projectors that support HLG HDR and the SMPTE base standard, HDR10. You will also enjoy WCG in the rec.2020 and P3 color gamuts, 10-bit and EOTF. 8k down-converted to 4k will look beautiful on today's premium TVs and projectors. So bring it on.

[Aidenag]

Im not too worried about 8k taking over. It will be a big improvement for cinemas, and home projectors in the 100+ inch range, but for the average 55-75 inch tv, i can't see it making that much of a difference. There will need to be some major technological hurdles for 8k to become a normal thing in home too. Bandwidth and screen tech being the main obstacles as to be able to stream 8k HDR you would need some major bandwidth, which majority don't have. And the screens themselves, were years and years from that becoming something for the non jetset crowd to even think about affording.

That said, like always, i'll be in the first wave to jump on the new techs bandwagon once it becomes affordable for us mere mortals. My new family room could totally handle a 110 inch 8k OLED

[Robert Zohn]

8K will also help with live sports broadcasts when they show replays and the operator wants to digitally zoom in on a specific small area that can now hold the detail for the home viewers.

[LordoftheRings]

In the vein of Penton-Man's above post (#13) ↓

♦ http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...jectors-989655

Making for interesting reading ↓

• https://creators.vice.com/en_au/arti...future-of-film
• http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-c...cinema-983659/
• https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...ture-of-cinema

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

8K will also help with live sports broadcasts when they show replays and the operator wants to digitally zoom in on a specific small area that can now hold the detail for the home viewers.

^This.

I suspect that 8K displays will precede 8K movie content AFA DI's or DCP's are concerned. Now, I'm pretty sure WB scanned GWTW and The Wizard of Oz at 8K a few years ago, and maybe Casablanca too. There are probably a few others as well. So there would be some great catalogue movie content for an 8K display.

And current 4K content could upscale in the 8K display, just like current 4K displays do upscaling.

But probably the biggest beneficiary of 8K display should be televised broadcasts of sports, and other televised content with minimal (or no) cgi involved. If you can get 8K sports broadcasts, esp. NFL on Sunday, then basketball and baseball you would have fans geeking out and absolutely demanding more of the same. I'm assuming of course that some flavor of HDR and HFR would already have been implemented in the 2K / 4K live broadcast world we're in, and it would transfer over to 8K.

Then you have your displays based in the homes, and I think the rest of entertainment will follow at 4K and 8K depending on technology and cost effectiveness of same. What I'm really predicting (hoping) is that broadcasting jumps from 1080 to 8K, and they're the ones who skip 4K.

Now something akin to Moore's law may keep this jump from occurring as fast as I'm predicting, but it would be cool if it could. Now that 4K home equipment has a strong foothold in homes, 8K doesn't really feel like it's that far away.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

8K will also help with....

8K could have a potential market for use in the operating room to better see borders between different structures beyond only operating in the belly region…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...k#post12947578 especially since there is no significant movement.

As an aside, with regards to color, Panasonic has already manufactured a 55 inch 120Hz/8K/4K monitor using a backlight system with laser light sources which covers 99% of BT.2020