Uncompressed great even optical

[BTBuck1]

So last night I watched my first Blu-Ray with LPCM on my ps3. (A Knights Tale) I don't know why, but I always assumed that Uncompressed LPCM only benefited those with multichannel analog outs (like My samsung bdp1000& Tosh HD-A1) I also always thought that if you selected it using optical output that you'd get no sound, or that it would sound exactly like Dolby Digital. Well I selected it on Knights Tale and Immediately I had to cut the volume in half. Everything was louder and more dynamic sounding, even through OPTICAL!!! I was shocked!

I guess it's my own dumb fault for assuming all this time, but I heard that optical lacked the bandwidth and all that, so my question then is...what am I getting? It says 48khz, 4.5mbps 5.1 channel. It sounded awesome, and even my 6th channel was blazing out sound (neo6 was selected) which was probably why.

Anyone know how much of the 48khz, 4.5mbps i'm actually getting out of optical? It sounded nearly as good as my samsung outputting lpcm over analogs...if not AS good.

[dobyblue]

Try listening to it through a direct setting instead of Neo:6, or turn off the Neo:6 processing and see how many channels are lighting up. You have the 1014 right? I do as well, it should show you whether or not you're getting a 5.1 track or not. What does the display show in THX mode?
Optical and Digital Coax can only support two channel PCM, not 5.1. If you're listening to a PCM track then it's most likely a 2 channel mix you're hearing. Either that or the player is downconverting to DTS.
One thing for sure is that you're not getting the LPCM 5.1 track through the optical.
What does your actual receiver light up and show you?

[JTK]

Brian, it does sound very good, but c'mon, quit kidding yourself.

You know you're looking at a upgrade to a HDMI 1.1 switching receiver of some sort.

You know you want LPCM and the rest of it in all it's glory like I do.

[BTBuck1]

i have the 1014tx, but my sammy and xbox 360/add on are hooked to that in my bedroom, (sammy on analogs)

In my living room I have a sony strde995, which has my HDA1 and my ps3 connected.

I guess neo6 was just simulating rear surround...

oops, nm then...

It did sound good though!

And Eric, your right...who am I kidding, but rather than 1.1, i will go HDMI 1.3 receivers in a couple years. I gotta get some time out of these investments.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

i have the 1014tx, but my sammy and xbox 360/add on are hooked to that in my bedroom, (sammy on analogs)

In my living room I have a sony strde995, which has my HDA1 and my ps3 connected.

I guess neo6 was just simulating rear surround...

oops, nm then...

It did sound good though!

And Eric, your right...who am I kidding, but rather than 1.1, i will go HDMI 1.3 receivers in a couple years. I gotta get some time out of these investments.

I'm not going to wait and miss out and here's why:

I can get a fairly cheap/ decent HDMI 1.1 now and ride out the next few years. That's all anyone really needs.

HDMI 1.3 is going to be a beta testing nightmare and it isn't going do to @#$% for anyone on audio.

See thread: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3894

[dobyblue]

It may not provide any advantages for Dolby, but if a player doesn't support full DTS-MA decoding like the Sony and the Pioneer Elite, then the HDMI 1.3 capable receiver is the ONLY way to get DTS-HD Master Audio, which when watching Fox discs is something I don't want to miss out on.
HDMI has had very little in the way of trouble when it comes to introducing new specs. I don't see HDMI 1.3 being any different.
Brian the HDMI 1.3 receivers should be out by Q2 2007. Do it!

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It may not provide any advantages for Dolby, but if a player doesn't support full DTS-MA decoding like the Sony and the Pioneer Elite, then the HDMI 1.3 capable receiver is the ONLY way to get DTS-HD Master Audio, which when watching Fox discs is something I don't want to miss out on.

The players are going to have to, almost certainly. Click on that link and look at the stuff that Dressler from Dolby was saying, for starters.

Remember: It has to be put on the discs to begin with.

HDMI has had very little in the way of trouble when it comes to introducing new specs. I don't see HDMI 1.3 being any different.
Brian the HDMI 1.3 receivers should be out by Q2 2007. Do it!

It'll probably be a year from now at earliest and it certainly won't be cheap to get it.

And you can count on plenty of beta testing and hiccups to boot. HDMI isn't exactly the king of stability even now, let alone when you pile on another layer to it.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JTK

The players are going to have to, almost certainly. Click on that link and look at the stuff that Dressler from Dolby was saying, for starters.
Remember: It has to be put on the discs to begin with.

Like I said though that is only to do with TrueHD, which has really not shown up for Blu-ray.
He's also speaking solely about HD DVD and the technology may differ completely for Blu-ray.
DTS' rules have never followed Dolby's and all that stuff about basic and advanced may have no bearing at all on Blu-ray, HDMI 1.3 and DTS-MA.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

...what am I getting? It says 48khz, 4.5mbps 5.1 channel. It sounded awesome, and even my 6th channel was blazing out sound (neo6 was selected) which was probably why.

Anyone know how much of the 48khz, 4.5mbps i'm actually getting out of optical? It sounded nearly as good as my samsung outputting lpcm over analogs...if not AS good.

mmm 4.5 Mb/s divided into 48 kHz divided into 5.1 channels would give you about 18 bits per channel

dobyblue, aren't LPCM DAD discs (and the DAD part of HDAD discs) able to pass multichannel through the SPDIF?

[Monkey]

What if all I care about was 2 channel sound. Would the analog out via the av multi-out using the red/white RCA's transmit to a regular reciever with the red/white inputs and do the full bandwidth for at least two channels?

I'm very curious if this would work well with movies?

I'm also curious if that would work well with Super Audio CD's as I don't care about surround sound for Music but love high quality audio.

PS3's audio already sounds better than my 360's two channel for gaming.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Like I said though that is only to do with TrueHD, which has really not shown up for Blu-ray.
He's also speaking solely about HD DVD and the technology may differ completely for Blu-ray.
DTS' rules have never followed Dolby's and all that stuff about basic and advanced may have no bearing at all on Blu-ray, HDMI 1.3 and DTS-MA.

The general points apply to both, especially this:

One additional consequence of the above rapidly becomes apparent: There will be no particular reason or benefit to decoding native audio bitstreams in the A/V receiver. This means A/V receivers with HDMI digital inputs or analog-to-digital converters for their analog inputs will be able to use their DSP resources to postprocess full-bandwidth audio from the players, rather than being required to also handle core bitstream decoding duties. (Such postprocessing is often done at a sampling rate of 96 kHz, thereby demanding at least double the DSP horsepower of conventional postprocessing done at 48 kHz.)

And the response:

Originally Posted by keenan

That makes it pretty clear and to the point, HDMI 1.3 is not needed to realize the full audio capabilities of the new HiDef players.

And pretty much everyone in that thread agrees with that conclusion and so do I.


Don't get me wrong: After a couple of years beta testing, hiccups, and the announcement of HDMI 2.0...HDMI 1.3 is going to kick ass and be great to have.

I just don't think people that want or need to make a move on something "have to wait for it."

Waiting is always the most prudent choice, but in this case, you don't HAVE to if you really need to cross a bridge and optimize something for yourself.

That's my story anyways.

[hyperdine]

Not too shabby for those who don't want to wait; 1080P switching, upscaling, etc...


Decent review too!

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html

You could do a lot worse for $1500 (they have $1000 model too). I'm generally not a huge fan of Sony receivers, but the ES line is an exception.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hyperdine

Not too shabby for those who don't want to wait; 1080P switching, upscaling, etc...


Decent review too!

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html

You could do a lot worse for $1500 (they have $1000 model too). I'm generally not a huge fan of Sony receivers, but the ES line is an exception.

It's a potential option. I'd like to get it for a lot less than $1500 though.

I don't believe in paying MSRP. No gray market, though.

[BTBuck1]

Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the AV gear I have now. Yeah I know shits gonna be better...and advanced codecs rock and the like...Hell I'm enjoying the heck out of LPCM 5.1 now via my analog outs on the sammy. And Dolby TruHD sounds pretty good on the A1. That can and will definately hold me over for a while. Add in the fact that alot of Dolby Digital Plus and DTS at 1.5mbps sound simply amazing, i'm not sure it's "That serious"

I'll wait it out, i'm enjoying things thouroughly now...and when the prices come down in or around $600-800 for a reciever with all the features I want and a player around $400-$500 (5 disc) thats when i'll probably upgrade again. Along with a 1080p set and the rest of it. 2 maybe 3 years from now.

Til then, I have IMHO... kick ass stuff I enjoy (yeah some of your setups are way nicer obviously) but to me, what I have rocks, and Im gonna get some milage out of it!!!

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JTK

The general points apply to both, especially this:



And the response:



And pretty much everyone in that thread agrees with that conclusion and so do I.


Don't get me wrong: After a couple of years beta testing, hiccups, and the announcement of HDMI 2.0...HDMI 1.3 is going to kick ass and be great to have.

I just don't think people that want or need to make a move on something "have to wait for it."

Waiting is always the most prudent choice, but in this case, you don't HAVE to if you really need to cross a bridge and optimize something for yourself.

That's my story anyways.

This still misses the main point that if your player DOESN'T decode DTS-MA then it's up to your receiver to do it. Anyone that will be buying the Sony Blu-ray player or the Pioneer Elite will be subject to this dilemna.
If the player doesn't decode DTS-MA then it cannot pass it through as PCM.
DTS is good, but it doesn't compare with PCM and on the Fox discs you don't have a PCM, just DTS-MA or core DTS at 1.5Mbps.
I haven't come across a Pioneer receiver yet that's had any significant flaws and I don't see any evidence to suggest that we won't see HDMI 1.3 compatible receivers from Pioneer in early 2007.
I don't have HDMI on my current receiver - why would I want to buy one that will not give me the benefits of ALL the lossless audio codecs?

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

Til then, I have IMHO... kick ass stuff I enjoy (yeah some of your setups are way nicer obviously) but to me, what I have rocks, and Im gonna get some milage out of it!!!

Hey don't sell yourself short - the VSX 1014TX is one seri-ass receiver. I have mine hooked up to a Pioneer Elite DV45a DVD-A/SACD player and I'm consistently blown away by the hi-rez audio across the analog multi-channel inputs.

[JTK]

^^ You guys are kind of in a different boat since you have standalone player with multichannel analogs.

In my case, the PS3 is it for me. I don't own any other BD players nor am I going to for at least another generation or two.

So I have to deal with the hardware I have. This means getting an HDMI switching receiver of some sort. I very seriously doubt Sony can or ever will make a multichannel analog solution of some sort. I wish they would, but I don't think the PS3 even has the necessary hardware to even make it possible. The PS3 is straight digital all the way.


What I'll probably do is getting something well under a grand now and I'll simply upgrade again in about 2 years or so when the crazy, premium dollar beta testing period that you know HDMI 1.3 is going to bring a year's time settles out a bit.

People that buy the very first HDMI 1.3 ready receivers are going to paying through the nose for a lot of headaches and very little appreciable returns, if any, vs. what you can get right now on the audio side.

It will be years before we much, if any, appreciable returns on the "promises" of HDMI 1.3.

[dobyblue]

I really don't foresee the problems with HDMI that you're anticipating.
HDMI 1.3 from the PS3 to receivers and to televisions seems to be quite flawless which is a long cry from the early 2004 cock-ups that HDMI had, such as handshaking from a TV ruining the DVD players HDMI output, sound not being received, etc.
If the PS3 shows us anything over the last fortnight about HDMI 1.3 it is that the new specs have been well tested and rightly they should - there are over 400 contributing companies now in the HDMI camp compared to the 50 or so that were there in 2004. The integration with HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 devices seems to be flawless.
If Pioneer are any indication through precedence I would think that their 2007 line of Elite reveivers will all have HDMI 1.3 with varying levels of amplification and THX certification. If the PS3 has been released with HDMI 1.3 then why would one assume that the price of TVs or receivers will skyrocket because of it?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I really don't foresee the problems with HDMI that you're anticipating.

We already have plenty of problems with HDMI now. Adding another layer to it can only open the door to even more bugs, handshake issues, and Lord knows what else.

Hopefully not.

HDMI 1.3 from the PS3 to receivers and to televisions seems to be quite flawless which is a long cry from the early 2004 cock-ups that HDMI had, such as handshaking from a TV ruining the DVD players HDMI output, sound not being received, etc.

Yes.

If the PS3 shows us anything over the last fortnight about HDMI 1.3 it is that the new specs have been well tested and rightly they should - there are over 400 contributing companies now in the HDMI camp compared to the 50 or so that were there in 2004. The integration with HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 devices seems to be flawless.

I hope you're right, but what I'm seeing on reciever and amps forums abroad suggests something to me far removed from "flawless."

If Pioneer are any indication through precedence I would think that their 2007 line of Elite reveivers will all have HDMI 1.3 with varying levels of amplification and THX certification. If the PS3 has been released with HDMI 1.3 then why would one assume that the price of TVs or receivers will skyrocket because of it?

Because Sony is taking a loss on the sale of each PS3 sold upfront. That figure is debateable from $200 or so on up. The PS3, being a game console (among other things), is a unique exception to the rule.


There's always some premium value lopped on to any "new" venture in consumer electronics. I'm not talking abou thousands of dollars, but you can count on some kind of premium mark up when those first HDMI 1.3 receivers come out. That's just the way this industry always works.

[theknub]

one question about all of this... aside from the ps3, none of the players have an hdmi 1.3 connections, do they? so for all this talk about the receivers decoding this and that, the player will still not be able to output the full dts-ma stream since it lacks the necessary connectors. in essence, you will still be left with having the player decode the stream and output it as 5.1 pcm or via analog ins

[Knight-Errant]

Originally Posted by theknub

one question about all of this... aside from the ps3, none of the players have an hdmi 1.3 connections, do they? so for all this talk about the receivers decoding this and that, the player will still not be able to output the full dts-ma stream since it lacks the necessary connectors. in essence, you will still be left with having the player decode the stream and output it as 5.1 pcm or via analog ins

Which is why I'm getting the sony and waiting for the hdmi 1.3 receivers and players to mature a bit. Then I'll upgrade both in a couple of years.