How does 24p affect me? (a man trying to figure out if he needs the 800u) - Blu-ray Forum

victimsofadown · 02-24-2009, 06:59 AM

So... I just had an epiphany... I was looking at all this stuff for the last 3-4 months and have my whole plan figured out. That was to wait until the new 50" V-series comes out, and if they are awesome and reasonably priced get THAT. If they aren't awesome and/or reasonably priced then the 800U's will be cheaper and I'll either be able to get a 50" on the cheap or a 58" for about what I'd pay for a 50" right now.

But sitting here tonight I got to thinking... why the hell do I want an 800U so badly? I was looking at audio equipment when I realized "I'm not an audiophile... I don't need every bell and whistle, I need a mainstream player." Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm going overboard with my televisionness?

I went for the 800U initially for 2 reasons.

1) the 24P playback]
2) THX mode being nearly calibrated out of the box. (I don't know how to calibrate, and I know I couldn't get someone to calibrate it without my wife murdering me... if I was dead I couldn't enjoy my tv so...)

But I started to think about it today...

1) WHAT IS THIS? I mean... I know what it is, but I can't figure out if it's worth the money. I watch movies right now (and for the last 2 years) with a television that does the 3:2 pulldown thing, and I've never noticed a damned thing! Is this a big deal? Is it something I'm going to notice after I get the TV and then go "ooooooh, THAT is what it's supposed to be" ? Or is it going to be something my wife goes "...$500 extra...? Really?"

2) I started thinking that with some calibration tips on the interwebs I could probably get the TV relatively close to where it should be---but I don't know.

Please convince me one way or the other, and if it isn't worth my while to hold out for these admittedly freakin' awesome (but very possibly not necessary) peices of equipment what should I be looking at? the 80u? the 85u?

Thanks so much you guys!

BrahmaBull · 02-24-2009, 12:48 PM

I too have been questioning how important 24p is to me.

I am a little disappointed that the new G series is THX cert but doesn't properly do 24p. This new NeoPDP looks impressive. Better blacks, motion, processing and the happy buzz word "green".

After a month of seriously considering a new set and not wanting to pay the extra for 24p and viera cast, I was dead set on the 46" 85U.

Now I am waiting. Pricing on the new models look enticing and I am hoping for noticeable improvements in blacks, IR, etc.

I guess I am on your boat. Leaning towards a 2009 model, but if it makes sense, fall back to the 85u.

mr.hidef · 02-24-2009, 01:17 PM

THX mode being nearly calibrated out of the box.

This just means it's THX certified (stamp of approval). It is nowhere near calibrated out of the box.....unless Carrie at Panasonic (I known her for 2 years now) is full of crap for telling me that. Is it at 6500 Kelvin internally to begin proper calibration?

victimsofadown · 02-24-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.hidef

THX mode being nearly calibrated out of the box.

This just means it's THX certified (stamp of approval). It is nowhere near calibrated out of the box.....unless Carrie at Panasonic (I known her for 2 years now) is full of crap for telling me that. Is it at 6500 Kelvin internally to begin proper calibration?

I don't want to get too off topic, but I was under the impression from every thing I've read that using the THX mode is very very very near calibrated, and only slight changes from there are needed for calibration.

dobyblue · 02-24-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victimsofadown

I watch movies right now (and for the last 2 years) with a television that does the 3:2 pulldown thing, and I've never noticed a damned thing! Is this a big deal?

Absolutely not. It is far less important than real contrast ratio and motion resolution. If you haven't noticed it, you're not likely to.

Hammie · 02-24-2009, 03:25 PM

24p is not a necessity. It is a nicety. Also, some people have noticed a flicker when in 24p mode. Personally, I have not.

THX mode is nice, but again not perfect. If you look on the AVS 800u thread. It has been proven that it , too, need calibrated to get it spot on.

Being THX certified means that it meets the minimum requirements under that specification. It still needs tweaked to make it "perfect." Besides, you may be quite happy with it out of the box and not want/need any changes.

Additionally, there are a number of threads on the Internet with various "calibration" settings that you can plug in and tweak to your liking no matter what TV you buy.

Whether you buy an 85u, 800u or a new 2009 model, a Panasonic plasma is a pretty good TV none the less.

Like dobyblue says, look at the REAL contrast and not dynamic contrast and make a decision based on that. The 800u does look better than an 85u. Will the new 2009 models look beter or the same is yet to know since no one has seen them yet.

Pelican170 · 02-24-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.hidef

THX mode being nearly calibrated out of the box.

This just means it's THX certified (stamp of approval). It is nowhere near calibrated out of the box.....unless Carrie at Panasonic (I known her for 2 years now) is full of crap for telling me that. Is it at 6500 Kelvin internally to begin proper calibration?

This is not true for the 800U for the THX setting. it is almost perfectly calibrated out of the box.. you can read about it online...

Also, the 24p on this set flickers quite noticably. if you are only buying it for the 24p, beware..

Hammie · 02-24-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican170

This is not true for the 800U for the THX setting. it is almost perfectly calibrated out of the box.. you can read about it online...

Also, the 24p on this set flickers quite noticably. if you are only buying it for the 24p, beware..

You'll have to take this up with Tom Huffman, an ISF calibrator over at AVS. He owns one and says it was off. I believe it had a bad red push.

Pelican170 · 02-24-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louhamilton

You'll have to take this up with Tom Huffman, an ISF calibrator over at AVS. He owns one and says it was off. I believe it had a bad red push.

Oh, its not perfect, but its really close...

JimShaw · 02-24-2009, 03:43 PM

Still do not know what 24P is. Can someone out there explain??

.

dobyblue · 02-24-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimShaw

Still do not know what 24P is. Can someone out there explain??.

Movies are shot at 24 frames per second, Blu-ray Disc are encoded at the same 24fps.

Here are the first 6 frames of a movie, one every 1/24th sec.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Most TV's employ 3:2 pulldown to display at 60Hz, (one frame every 1/60th sec) which would go like this:

1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6

Because every second frame is displayed for 1/60th sec longer than the previous one it can cause a mild effect known as 3:2 judder.

A TV like the Pioneer KURO will eliminate judder by refreshing the screen at a multiple of 24, in the case of the Kuro that's 72Hz or 3:3 pulldown resoluting in the following:

1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6

Every frame is displayed every 1/72nd sec, thus eliminating any judder caused by 3:2 pulldown.

Hammie · 02-24-2009, 04:04 PM

But the Panasonic displays it at 48Hz or 2:2

1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6

same concept, just less frames per display.

dobyblue · 02-24-2009, 04:09 PM

And the upcoming Z and V series Viera's are supposedly going to use 4:4 pulldown or 96Hz.

graf1k · 02-24-2009, 04:12 PM

Not to confused the issue, but I figure since the thread is already here I might as well ask it, but why use multiples of 24? I know the point of 120Hz in LCDs is it is the lowest common multiple of both 24 and 30, the latter being for TV content (I imagine that most videogame content these days being at 60 is an added bonus) but in the case of something like the Kuro where 72Hz is not a number 30 goes into evenly, why not just make it a pure 24Hz rather than 48Hz or 72Hz, ect.?

JimShaw · 02-24-2009, 04:27 PM

Thanks

Now we are getting there. I have an understanding of 24P

Once again, Thanks

dobyblue · 02-24-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graf1k

Not to confused the issue, but I figure since the thread is already here I might as well ask it, but why use multiples of 24? I know the point of 120Hz in LCDs is it is the lowest common multiple of both 24 and 30, the latter being for TV content (I imagine that most videogame content these days being at 60 is an added bonus) but in the case of something like the Kuro where 72Hz is not a number 30 goes into evenly, why not just make it a pure 24Hz rather than 48Hz or 72Hz, ect.?

24Hz would be extremely noticeable to the eye, extreme flicker.
When you notice a flicker in the cinema, that's already at 48Hz. You'd only use true 24Hz mode in editing I would imagine.

The Kuro only uses 72Hz for 24p content. It uses 60Hz for video content.

graf1k · 02-24-2009, 04:41 PM

Ah, knew there had to be a reason. Good info, doby.

Sonny · 02-24-2009, 05:24 PM

The Kuro's 72Hz (3:3) is a perfect multiple. I'm not very impressed with the 120Hz on LCD's & soon to be 240Hz... I'm very interested to see the new Panny 96Hz in action. Pioneer found the best multiple (72Hz) to where there would be no flicker & it would still look like it was supposed to. I hope 96Hz works out great for Panny. They have some 96Hz projectors don't they...? Does anyone have one, or maybe of had the privilege of seeing one in action?

I'm really pulling for Panasonic , there our only hope as far as "perfect" PQ goes. Without Panny plasma stepping up, "reference" quality plasma TVs are done.

dereksworl · 02-24-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

The Kuro only uses 72Hz for 24p content. It uses 60Hz for video content.

It can actually switch refresh rates?

dobyblue · 02-24-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny

They have some 96Hz projectors don't they...? Does anyone have one, or maybe of had the privilege of seeing one in action?
I'm really pulling for Panasonic, they're our only hope as far as "perfect" PQ goes. Without Panny plasma stepping up, "reference" quality plasma TVs are done.

I'm not sure about the projectors, but their Premiere line of Plasma's already does 96Hz as far as I know.

http://www.panasonic.com/business/pl...sma-series.asp

02-24-2009, 06:59 AM	#1
victimsofadown Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 Location:Space 4K collection:75 Blu-ray collection:198 DVD collection:58	How does 24p affect me? (a man trying to figure out if he needs the 800u) So... I just had an epiphany... I was looking at all this stuff for the last 3-4 months and have my whole plan figured out. That was to wait until the new 50" V-series comes out, and if they are awesome and reasonably priced get THAT. If they aren't awesome and/or reasonably priced then the 800U's will be cheaper and I'll either be able to get a 50" on the cheap or a 58" for about what I'd pay for a 50" right now. But sitting here tonight I got to thinking... why the hell do I want an 800U so badly? I was looking at audio equipment when I realized "I'm not an audiophile... I don't need every bell and whistle, I need a mainstream player." Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm going overboard with my televisionness? I went for the 800U initially for 2 reasons. 1) the 24P playback] 2) THX mode being nearly calibrated out of the box. (I don't know how to calibrate, and I know I couldn't get someone to calibrate it without my wife murdering me... if I was dead I couldn't enjoy my tv so...) But I started to think about it today... 1) WHAT IS THIS? I mean... I know what it is, but I can't figure out if it's worth the money. I watch movies right now (and for the last 2 years) with a television that does the 3:2 pulldown thing, and I've never noticed a damned thing! Is this a big deal? Is it something I'm going to notice after I get the TV and then go "ooooooh, THAT is what it's supposed to be" ? Or is it going to be something my wife goes "...$500 extra...? Really?" 2) I started thinking that with some calibration tips on the interwebs I could probably get the TV relatively close to where it should be---but I don't know. Please convince me one way or the other, and if it isn't worth my while to hold out for these admittedly freakin' awesome (but very possibly not necessary) peices of equipment what should I be looking at? the 80u? the 85u? Thanks so much you guys!

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02-24-2009, 12:48 PM	#2
BrahmaBull Active Member Member since:Oct 2007 Blu-ray collection:4 Blu-ray reviews: 2	I too have been questioning how important 24p is to me. I am a little disappointed that the new G series is THX cert but doesn't properly do 24p. This new NeoPDP looks impressive. Better blacks, motion, processing and the happy buzz word "green". After a month of seriously considering a new set and not wanting to pay the extra for 24p and viera cast, I was dead set on the 46" 85U. Now I am waiting. Pricing on the new models look enticing and I am hoping for noticeable improvements in blacks, IR, etc. I guess I am on your boat. Leaning towards a 2009 model, but if it makes sense, fall back to the 85u.

02-24-2009, 01:17 PM	#3
mr.hidef Power Member Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Twin Cities Home Theater Gallery:113 Blu-ray collection:570 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:17	THX mode being nearly calibrated out of the box. This just means it's THX certified (stamp of approval). It is nowhere near calibrated out of the box.....unless Carrie at Panasonic (I known her for 2 years now) is full of crap for telling me that. Is it at 6500 Kelvin internally to begin proper calibration?

02-24-2009, 03:25 PM	#6
Hammie Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:May 2008 Location:Washington, DC Metro Home Theater Gallery:53 Blu-ray collection:545 DVD collection:12 Trading Score:12	24p is not a necessity. It is a nicety. Also, some people have noticed a flicker when in 24p mode. Personally, I have not. THX mode is nice, but again not perfect. If you look on the AVS 800u thread. It has been proven that it , too, need calibrated to get it spot on. Being THX certified means that it meets the minimum requirements under that specification. It still needs tweaked to make it "perfect." Besides, you may be quite happy with it out of the box and not want/need any changes. Additionally, there are a number of threads on the Internet with various "calibration" settings that you can plug in and tweak to your liking no matter what TV you buy. Whether you buy an 85u, 800u or a new 2009 model, a Panasonic plasma is a pretty good TV none the less. Like dobyblue says, look at the REAL contrast and not dynamic contrast and make a decision based on that. The 800u does look better than an 85u. Will the new 2009 models look beter or the same is yet to know since no one has seen them yet.

02-24-2009, 03:43 PM	#10
JimShaw Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2008 Location:Menifee, CA 4K collection:49 Blu-ray collection:1069 Trading Score:141	Still do not know what 24P is. Can someone out there explain?? .

02-24-2009, 04:04 PM	#12
Hammie Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:May 2008 Location:Washington, DC Metro Home Theater Gallery:53 Blu-ray collection:545 DVD collection:12 Trading Score:12	But the Panasonic displays it at 48Hz or 2:2 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6 same concept, just less frames per display.

02-24-2009, 04:09 PM	#13
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	And the upcoming Z and V series Viera's are supposedly going to use 4:4 pulldown or 96Hz.

02-24-2009, 04:12 PM	#14
graf1k Blu-ray Guru Member since:Aug 2008 Location:🆇🆇🆇🆇 Trading Score:198	Not to confused the issue, but I figure since the thread is already here I might as well ask it, but why use multiples of 24? I know the point of 120Hz in LCDs is it is the lowest common multiple of both 24 and 30, the latter being for TV content (I imagine that most videogame content these days being at 60 is an added bonus) but in the case of something like the Kuro where 72Hz is not a number 30 goes into evenly, why not just make it a pure 24Hz rather than 48Hz or 72Hz, ect.?

02-24-2009, 04:27 PM	#15
JimShaw Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2008 Location:Menifee, CA 4K collection:49 Blu-ray collection:1069 Trading Score:141	Thanks Now we are getting there. I have an understanding of 24P Once again, Thanks

02-24-2009, 04:41 PM	#17
graf1k Blu-ray Guru Member since:Aug 2008 Location:🆇🆇🆇🆇 Trading Score:198	Ah, knew there had to be a reason. Good info, doby.

02-24-2009, 05:24 PM	#18
Sonny Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray reviews:6 Trading Score:1	The Kuro's 72Hz (3:3) is a perfect multiple. I'm not very impressed with the 120Hz on LCD's & soon to be 240Hz... I'm very interested to see the new Panny 96Hz in action. Pioneer found the best multiple (72Hz) to where there would be no flicker & it would still look like it was supposed to. I hope 96Hz works out great for Panny. They have some 96Hz projectors don't they...? Does anyone have one, or maybe of had the privilege of seeing one in action? I'm really pulling for Panasonic , there our only hope as far as "perfect" PQ goes. Without Panny plasma stepping up, "reference" quality plasma TVs are done.

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