Starting out: 2 Channel or 3 Channel - Blu-ray Forum

Slec · 06-20-2009, 01:15 PM

Like many others on this site I am thinking about moving into separates. My gut tells me to start off with a 2 channel amp (for music) and let the AVR take care of the rest. I know Audyssey and MCACC will try to correct for the difference in power output but here's my question..

If I will ultimately get amps to power a 5.1 (or maybe 7.1) system, should I get a 3 channel amp now and have solid panning during movies, or 2 channel now and add the others later? Will the L/R and C sound different if powered by different sources?

For 3 channel, I'm looking at the Emo XPA-3. For 2 Channel Rotel RB-1080. I'm still looking around in general, but this ought to give an idea on budget.

Johnny Vinyl · 06-20-2009, 02:00 PM

Seeing as I am first and foremost into 2-channel, a 2-channel amp would make the most sense for me. I view my HT as a compliment to my primary love for music, which is mostly 2-channel based (excepting surround SACD and Blu-ray concerts). If you were more into movies I'd say to go with a 3-channel amp to drive your L/C/R and add addional amps for your surrounds and rear-surrounds.

The Centre Channel (first) and Fronts (second) are critical to HT and I would not segragrate their amplification as such, although I really honestly don't know if that would make a huge difference. It would depend on the equipment I guess.

There are plenty of variations on my opinions and I'm sure they'll follow momentarily.

John

naturephoto1 · 06-20-2009, 02:06 PM

Hi Chris,

Others may argue with me, but I personally prefer to use a 2 channel amp for stereo and to then add a 3 channel amp for a 5.1 surround system, unless you added a 5 channel amp for a 7.1 surround system. I did not quite follow this originally since I had an Acurus A-250 amp originally for my stereo, but I purchased a Krell KAV-250a/3 power amp that would give me a 5.1 surround system, but since the Krell was better, I used it for the 3 front channels. When I purchased my first set of upgraded Aragon Palladium 1K monoblock amps though, I did as I recommend; I retired the Acurus amp (at least for now) and use the 3 channel Krell for the other 3 channels.

By the way, the same recommendation that I am making to you is what I received from the head of Krell service- use the 2 channel amp for the front and a 3 channel amp for the rest of the 5.1 system.

One other thing to consider is that you may purchase a better amp for 2 channel performance (just as the best speakers) which is where you want the best performance for a 2 music and even a multichannel system.

If you get matching 2 and 3 channel amps then the sound would/should be consistent. Another advantage of the 2 and 3 channel amp option is that you only use the amp (s) that are needed for the application.

Rich

Johnny Vinyl · 06-20-2009, 02:14 PM

I think that is pretty much what I said with a slight distinction. If I were more into HT I'd get a 3-channel amp for my L/C/R soundstage and other amps later for 5.1 or 7.1 set-ups.

If you're primarily into 2-channel....the 2-channel amp for L/R, a 3-channel or 5-channel amp for Centre and surrounds/rear-surrounds.

John

red_5ive · 06-20-2009, 04:28 PM

I agree, go with a 2 channel amp if you have any concern for music, then add a 3 or 5 channel to power the rest for HT. If you do go the Emo route - and no, before I get flamed I'm not trying to push this amp, the op simply mentioned he's interested in the XPA-3 - I just want to indicate that the XPA-2 does have a different design from the other XPA amps in that it has a "compartmentalized design for greater isolation from noise. The transformer is mounted in it's own substructure. The amplfiier channels are all fully shielded." (I'm quoting the xpa-2 page). In that respect I'd go with the XPA-2 and then add the XPA-3 or 5 later for the remaining channels. I have otherwise heard amps with more finesse & clarity for music (at a much higher price tag), but the XPA-2 is more than a capable performer. You should at the very least audition different amps within your budget.

crazyBLUE · 06-20-2009, 04:54 PM

Well Slec ~ I think I vary much agree with what has been posted already !

Slec · 06-20-2009, 05:00 PM

in the wider scope of things, is it important to stay with the same 'family' of amps as I slowly make the move to separates. to put another way, would it be wide to have an all rotel, all emotive, all anthem etc... instead of mixing the amps.

rded · 06-20-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

in the wider scope of things, is it important to stay with the same 'family' of amps as I slowly make the move to separates. to put another way, would it be wide to have an all rotel, all emotive, all anthem etc... instead of mixing the amps.

For tonality yes. But you have to remember who you're talking to. Rich and John are old school 2-channel fanatics and prefer 2 channel amps over anything

and it seems like I myself am heading that path. Its really funny how i've come full circle-I started with Pioneer separates and I think am heading back to separate but only for 2-channel.
What's your max budget anyway? If you have the right receiver(ehem...) you don't need amps especially with your kilipschs as they are super sensitive.

red_5ive · 06-20-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

in the wider scope of things, is it important to stay with the same 'family' of amps as I slowly make the move to separates. to put another way, would it be wide to have an all rotel, all emotive, all anthem etc... instead of mixing the amps.

As much as the goal of an amp is to provide clean power and neutral/uncolored sound, there are differences that I've heard relative to things like finesse & detail between the different brands/models that I've auditioned. So IMO, yes, it's best to stick with a particular line.

naturephoto1 · 06-20-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

in the wider scope of things, is it important to stay with the same 'family' of amps as I slowly make the move to separates. to put another way, would it be wide to have an all rotel, all emotive, all anthem etc... instead of mixing the amps.

Chris,

Granted it would be preferable to have all of the amps made by the same maker. As Rhett has pointed out, I am old school and 2 channel is most important to me. I do not have at this point the same amps for the center channel as I do for my left and right. But, I am looking for my 5th Aragon Palladium 1K monoblock amp to be upgraded for the center channel so that when I move and install the 7.1 surround system the front 3 channels and the surrounds will have the same amps. Two of these amps are in storage at present. Additionally, at present the Krell 3 channel amp is being used for the center and the surrounds of my 5.1 system, but it is intended that it will be used for the rear channel rebuilt Dahlquist DQ-10 speakers once I move.

Consider, that the most important sound in the system, even more so than the amps of the same maker is the speaker maker, drivers and crossover design. At this point, I have a Nola Reference LCR Center channel (as close a match as possible) for my rebuilt Dahlquist DQ-10 speakers. The sound isn't a perfect match, but it is still quite good.

Ultimately, presuming I can afford all of the changes for the new home and listening room/home theater, I will be having 2 mirror imaged Time Portal line stage towers (32 drivers per tower) with a half tower Time Portal line stage center channel speaker (16 drivers) and the sides channels will be Time Portal surrounds (12 drivers per speaker). And as mentioned, the rebuilt Dahlquist DQ-10 cabinets are to be used as the rear channels for the 7.1 system.

Rich

Slec · 06-20-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rded

For tonality yes. But you have to remember who you're talking to. Rich and John are old school 2-channel fanatics and prefer 2 channel amps over anything

and it seems like I myself am heading that path. Its really funny how i've come full circle-I started with Pioneer separates and I think am heading back to separate but only for 2-channel.
What's your max budget anyway? If you have the right receiver(ehem...) you don't need amps especially with your kilipschs as they are super sensitive.

As you can see I currently have a VSX03-TXH. I like it, but its not a top of the line unit. I plan on using it as a pre/pro and to power what ever channels the amp doesn't take. I had to make a deal with my wife on the speakers (as I was looking to upgrade already) so the Klipsch's are staying, short of something spectacular coming available.

I'm leaning heavily towards 2 channel to start with but I watch a ton of movies, hence my concern about the panning from different sources. I'm not looking to spend more than $1k, if even that on the first amp. I'm going to slowly piece the separates together.

my most recent thought was to get a 3 channel now, then move it to center and surrounds down the line when I buy a 2 channel.

naturephoto1 · 06-20-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

As you can see I currently have a VSX03-TXH. I like it, but its not a top of the line unit. I plan on using it as a pre/pro and to power what ever channels the amp doesn't take. I had to make a deal with my wife on the speakers (as I was looking to upgrade already) so the Klipsch's are staying, short of something spectacular coming available.

I'm leaning heavily towards 2 channel to start with but I watch a ton of movies, hence my concern about the panning from different sources. I'm not looking to spend more than $1k, if even that on the first amp. I'm going to slowly piece the separates together.

my most recent thought was to get a 3 channel now, then move it to center and surrounds down the line when I buy a 2 channel.

Chris,

Consider Audiogon as a source for your amps and select a maker. If you can audition the amps prior to the purchase of a used amp, that would be much better than buying blind. I know, it would be nice to able to buy the product from the store that you are auditioning, but unless they have a demo or used unit, it may be more money than you would like to spend.

Rich

red_5ive · 06-20-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

As you can see I currently have a VSX03-TXH. I like it, but its not a top of the line unit. I plan on using it as a pre/pro and to power what ever channels the amp doesn't take. I had to make a deal with my wife on the speakers (as I was looking to upgrade already) so the Klipsch's are staying, short of something spectacular coming available.

I'm leaning heavily towards 2 channel to start with but I watch a ton of movies, hence my concern about the panning from different sources. I'm not looking to spend more than $1k, if even that on the first amp. I'm going to slowly piece the separates together.

my most recent thought was to get a 3 channel now, then move it to center and surrounds down the line when I buy a 2 channel.

Consider shopping the used market, especially Audiogon. There's some great gear to be had there even on a modest budget.

rded · 06-20-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

I'm leaning heavily towards 2 channel to start with but I watch a ton of movies, hence my concern about the panning from different sources. I'm not looking to spend more than $1k, if even that on the first amp. I'm going to slowly piece the separates together.

my most recent thought was to get a 3 channel now, then move it to center and surrounds down the line when I buy a 2 channel.

Given the budget you've alloted for yourself, Its looking more and more like the Emotiva amp for you unless you can find something on AGON.

Slec · 06-20-2009, 05:53 PM

Thanks, I've been scouring Audiogon fairly regularly. I figured I needed answers to these questions before I could pull the trigger on anything.

rded · 06-20-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

Thanks, I've been scouring Audiogon fairly regularly. I figured I needed answers to these questions before I could pull the trigger on anything.

Chris: if you want to be different try this amp out and don't let the powe ratings fool you. It also comes in silver. The reason its so cheap is because its discontinued but WTH right?!

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....135-watts-pric

Slec · 06-20-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rded

Chris: if you want to be different try this amp out and don't let the powe ratings fool you. It also comes in silver. The reason its so cheap is because its discontinued but WTH right?!

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....135-watts-pric

very nice... would I be better off getting something like that now instead of spending $1k now and $1k down the road? I guess I just have it in my head that I might be able to get better amps by spacing out the purchases

naturephoto1 · 06-20-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slec

very nice... would I be better off getting something like that now instead of spending $1k now and $1k down the road? I guess I just have it in my head that I might be able to get better amps by spacing out the purchases

Chris,

Arcam makes a very good product, no question about that. But, if you do go that route (7 channel amp) and though it will sound better than your receiver, part of or all of the channels of the amp would be used regardless of what portion of your system were being used (2 channel, 5, 7 etc.).

Rich

Slec · 06-20-2009, 06:10 PM

I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me out. I'm learning more over the course of today than I have with some of the research I've been doing.

Johnny Vinyl · 06-20-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Chris,

Arcam makes a very good product, no question about that. But, if you do go that route (7 channel amp) and though it will sound better than your receiver, part of or all of the channels of the amp would be used regardless of what portion of your system were being used (2 channel, 5, 7 etc.).

Rich

Rich is correct in this. Thereby, in my opinion, I think you're better off going with 2 seperate amps as opposed to one 5 or 7-channel amp. However, the Arcam is a wonderful product

John

06-20-2009, 01:15 PM	#1
Slec Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Baltimore, MD Home Theater Gallery:29 Blu-ray collection:241 Blu-ray reviews: 7 Trading Score:30	Starting out: 2 Channel or 3 Channel Like many others on this site I am thinking about moving into separates. My gut tells me to start off with a 2 channel amp (for music) and let the AVR take care of the rest. I know Audyssey and MCACC will try to correct for the difference in power output but here's my question.. If I will ultimately get amps to power a 5.1 (or maybe 7.1) system, should I get a 3 channel amp now and have solid panning during movies, or 2 channel now and add the others later? Will the L/R and C sound different if powered by different sources? For 3 channel, I'm looking at the Emo XPA-3. For 2 Channel Rotel RB-1080. I'm still looking around in general, but this ought to give an idea on budget.

06-20-2009, 02:06 PM	#3
naturephoto1 Blu-ray Ninja Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Oct 2008 Location:Breinigsville, PA Home Theater Gallery:260 4K collection:21 Blu-ray collection:263	Hi Chris, Others may argue with me, but I personally prefer to use a 2 channel amp for stereo and to then add a 3 channel amp for a 5.1 surround system, unless you added a 5 channel amp for a 7.1 surround system. I did not quite follow this originally since I had an Acurus A-250 amp originally for my stereo, but I purchased a Krell KAV-250a/3 power amp that would give me a 5.1 surround system, but since the Krell was better, I used it for the 3 front channels. When I purchased my first set of upgraded Aragon Palladium 1K monoblock amps though, I did as I recommend; I retired the Acurus amp (at least for now) and use the 3 channel Krell for the other 3 channels. By the way, the same recommendation that I am making to you is what I received from the head of Krell service- use the 2 channel amp for the front and a 3 channel amp for the rest of the 5.1 system. One other thing to consider is that you may purchase a better amp for 2 channel performance (just as the best speakers) which is where you want the best performance for a 2 music and even a multichannel system. If you get matching 2 and 3 channel amps then the sound would/should be consistent. Another advantage of the 2 and 3 channel amp option is that you only use the amp (s) that are needed for the application. Rich Last edited by naturephoto1; 06-20-2009 at 04:38 PM.

06-20-2009, 04:28 PM	#5
red_5ive Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:The 'state' of Southern California Home Theater Gallery:18 4K collection:364 Blu-ray collection:996 DVD collection:4 Blu-ray reviews: 2 Trading Score:1	I agree, go with a 2 channel amp if you have any concern for music, then add a 3 or 5 channel to power the rest for HT. If you do go the Emo route - and no, before I get flamed I'm not trying to push this amp, the op simply mentioned he's interested in the XPA-3 - I just want to indicate that the XPA-2 does have a different design from the other XPA amps in that it has a "compartmentalized design for greater isolation from noise. The transformer is mounted in it's own substructure. The amplfiier channels are all fully shielded." (I'm quoting the xpa-2 page). In that respect I'd go with the XPA-2 and then add the XPA-3 or 5 later for the remaining channels. I have otherwise heard amps with more finesse & clarity for music (at a much higher price tag), but the XPA-2 is more than a capable performer. You should at the very least audition different amps within your budget. Last edited by red_5ive; 06-20-2009 at 04:32 PM.

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06-20-2009, 02:00 PM	#2
Johnny Vinyl Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:At the crossroad of Analogue Dr & 2CH Ave Home Theater Gallery:19 Blu-ray collection:205 DVD collection:7 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:8	Seeing as I am first and foremost into 2-channel, a 2-channel amp would make the most sense for me. I view my HT as a compliment to my primary love for music, which is mostly 2-channel based (excepting surround SACD and Blu-ray concerts). If you were more into movies I'd say to go with a 3-channel amp to drive your L/C/R and add addional amps for your surrounds and rear-surrounds. The Centre Channel (first) and Fronts (second) are critical to HT and I would not segragrate their amplification as such, although I really honestly don't know if that would make a huge difference. It would depend on the equipment I guess. There are plenty of variations on my opinions and I'm sure they'll follow momentarily. John

06-20-2009, 02:14 PM	#4
Johnny Vinyl Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:At the crossroad of Analogue Dr & 2CH Ave Home Theater Gallery:19 Blu-ray collection:205 DVD collection:7 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:8	I think that is pretty much what I said with a slight distinction. If I were more into HT I'd get a 3-channel amp for my L/C/R soundstage and other amps later for 5.1 or 7.1 set-ups. If you're primarily into 2-channel....the 2-channel amp for L/R, a 3-channel or 5-channel amp for Centre and surrounds/rear-surrounds. John

06-20-2009, 04:54 PM	#6
crazyBLUE Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Pacific Northwest Home Theater Gallery:89 Blu-ray collection:479 DVD collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 38 Trading Score:30	Well Slec ~ I think I vary much agree with what has been posted already !

06-20-2009, 05:00 PM	#7
Slec Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Baltimore, MD Home Theater Gallery:29 Blu-ray collection:241 Blu-ray reviews: 7 Trading Score:30	in the wider scope of things, is it important to stay with the same 'family' of amps as I slowly make the move to separates. to put another way, would it be wide to have an all rotel, all emotive, all anthem etc... instead of mixing the amps.

06-20-2009, 05:53 PM	#15
Slec Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Baltimore, MD Home Theater Gallery:29 Blu-ray collection:241 Blu-ray reviews: 7 Trading Score:30	Thanks, I've been scouring Audiogon fairly regularly. I figured I needed answers to these questions before I could pull the trigger on anything.

06-20-2009, 06:10 PM	#19
Slec Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Baltimore, MD Home Theater Gallery:29 Blu-ray collection:241 Blu-ray reviews: 7 Trading Score:30	I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me out. I'm learning more over the course of today than I have with some of the research I've been doing.

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