Herbies Black Hole, Probably the Best $1 Tweak for your CD/Blu-ray Player

[naturephoto1]

I have brought up Herbies tweaks in the past and have mentioned them many times in discussions. But, many of you may be interested in the Herbies Black Hole CD/DVD/Blu-ray Mat. These will fit most CD/DVD/SACD players and will improve the audio and quite possibly the video performance for CD, DVD, SACD, DVD-A, and Blu-ray discs.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/cdmat.htm



You can see the Black Hole Mat at the center of the Black Hole DVD.

I have used these on and off for approximately 1 1/2 to 2 years. At this point I am not sure if these are better than the much more expensive Millennium Carbon Fiber Platter Mat which I have reported on previously:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/84200




The Black Hole CD/DVD/Blu-ray Mats have an adhesive and can be reused (or permanently left on a disc) from disc to disc. I will say that these Black Hole CD/DVD/Blu-ray Mats will probably be the best $1 tweak that you can find to improve the performance of your player and system. They are so inexpensive, buy quite a number and the more you buy the less each will cost.

Don't be surprised if when using these on your discs that you will notice cleaner performance (sound), better bass, more detail, greater clarity, better highs and midrange, more natural sound, better imaging, better soundstage, and a greater depth to the performance.

Rich

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

I have brought up Herbies tweaks in the past and have mentioned them many times in discussions. But, many of you may be interested in the Herbies Black Hole CD/DVD/Blu-ray Mat. These will fit most CD/DVD/SACD players and will improve the audio and quite possibly the video performance for CD, DVD, SACD, DVD-A, and Blu-ray discs.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/cdmat.htm



You can see the Black Hole Mat at the center of the Black Hole DVD.

I have used these on and off for approximately 1 1/2 to 2 years. At this point I am not sure if these are better than the much more expensive Millennium Carbon Fiber Platter Mat which I have reported on previously:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/84200




The Black Hole CD/DVD/Blu-ray Mats have an adhesive and can be reused (or permanently left on a disc) from disc to disc. I will say that these Black Hole CD/DVD/Blu-ray Mats will probably be the best $1 tweak that you can find to improve the performance of your player and system. They are so inexpensive, buy quite a number and the more you buy the less each will cost.

Don't be surprised if when using these on your discs that you will notice cleaner performance (sound), better bass, more detail, greater clarity, better highs and midrange, more natural sound, better imaging, better soundstage, and a greater depth to the performance.

Rich

I don't get how that could possibly improve anything.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

I don't get how that could possibly improve anything.

Read the comments and reviews as well as the description of the product and what it does.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bhreview.htm

Rich

[42041]

You'd think a guy who's been registered here for 2 years would have better things to do than shill bogus audiophile snake oil

[richteer]

Originally Posted by 42041

You'd think a guy who's been registered here for 2 years would have better things to do than shill bogus audiophile snake oil

Personally, I think people should show more respect for people who have been registered here for two years. As for snake oil--have you actually tried products like this? (I'm sceptical myself because I've not yet tried it, but I have enough experience with high-end audio to know that audible improvements can come from the most unlikely places, so I remain open-minded.)

[42041]

Originally Posted by richteer

Personally, I think people should show more respect for people who have been registered here for two years. As for snake oil--have you actually tried products like this? (I'm sceptical myself because I've not yet tried it, but I have enough experience with high-end audio to know that audible improvements can come from the most unlikely places, so I remain open-minded.)

Shilling is frowned upon on most forums. If it's not here - "my bad" as they say.
It's a $1 piece of adhesive rubber.

[Chindogu]

So does this mat thing somehow change the 1's & 0's on the discs? Are they like Monster Cables this way?

Seriously, none of those links really gave any clear indication on what that Black Hole Mat actually does or how it does it. Having a web page full of positive quotes by people I've never heard of doesn't really do anything to convince me. Lets see some scientific data first and maybe I can be persuaded to take seriously the idea that a rubber sticker can make CD's sound better. How exactly does it reduce "micro vibrations" and "static build-up"? And how do those things affect the digital information negatively in the first place?

And please, don't take my skepticism as rudeness. It's just that a little more information would be great.

[doctorsteve]

Originally Posted by Chindogu

So does this mat thing somehow change the 1's & 0's on the discs? Are they like Monster Cables this way?

And please, don't take my skepticism as rudeness. It's just that a little more information would be great.

Hang on folks, this might actually work! I once took a magic marker and wrote "Cleaner sound, better performance, no microvibrations" on the plastic jewel case my cd's came in - and sure enough - It made a HUGE difference in the performance of my system!


[/sarcasm]

[naturephoto1]

The Black Hole mat makes a tighter bond between the disc and the clamp of the player and reduces vibrations; it most definitely does improve the audio performance. Other mats also improve the performance of the discs. For that matter so does using special markers and applying them at the center and edge of the disc. What is happening with some of the other mats and the use of the markers is to lessen the scatter for the laser to pick up and read as you point out the 0s and the 1s.

Before you cast stones, you may actually want to try this for $1 each. This is not spam or snake oil in the least; it really works and many many people have found that mats really do improve the performance of their playback and the sound of your system. I purchased some of these and gave them to my friend and he has an inexpensive system. He was quite surprised that the audio playback improved.

You can check on Audio Asylum, Audiogon, and on-line magazine reviews, etc. where members have found that Herbies products including the Black Hole do make improvements.

Rich

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

I purchased some of these and gave them to my friend and he has an inexpensive system. He was quite surprised that the audio playback improved.



Rich

I'm curious what "Inexpensive" is in your eyes



ANYWAYS:

I didn't check the links, but when I saw what you posted, and read about the adhesive, etc.... I immediately figured out what the purpose of these were..... Rubber to create a "buffer" between the disc, and the part of the transport that picks up the disc and spins it etc (I don't know the terminology obviously )

I too was curious how fidelity could be increased, since a CD player is picking up info with a laser, and not a stylus etc..... but I would certainly have to try it myself before making any concrete assertions.

[seeweda]

I'd also like to know if using something like this over time puts added tension on the internal components of a player causing it to fail sooner that it would under normal use. It sounds too much like a placebo to me.

[Grand Bob]

I remember about 20 years ago there was a product marketed called CD Sound Rings that were placed around the periphery of the disc, not around the center hole, and the company (Monster?) cited the same improvement in audio quality and bit transfer (?). Our local audio dealer gave me a pack of them to demo. I put them on some of my CD's that were noted for good audio quality (Steely Dan, Supertramp, etc.) and my friend who had the same CD's and an identical Denon high-end CD player brought them over to my house and hooked his player up to my pre-amp. We spent a whole afternoon A/B'ing the discs, switching from one to the other while both players were playing the same songs. Neither of us could hear one iota of difference. I told the dealer our results and he agreed, but said people were still buying them.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I'm curious what "Inexpensive" is in your eyes



ANYWAYS:

I didn't check the links, but when I saw what you posted, and read about the adhesive, etc.... I immediately figured out what the purpose of these were..... Rubber to create a "buffer" between the disc, and the part of the transport that picks up the disc and spins it etc (I don't know the terminology obviously )

I too was curious how fidelity could be increased, since a CD player is picking up info with a laser, and not a stylus etc..... but I would certainly have to try it myself before making any concrete assertions.

Hi John,

I would say that my friend has something like a $1000? or so for the system (plus an old projection TV) but I am not sure. He uses a Bose 5.1 system along with probably a $100 or $200? DVD player and an AVR. I am not sure of his components at this point and he still uses DVD and has not shifted over to Blu-ray or HD for his TV.

For myself, I have found that the Herbies Black Holes improved the performance of all 4 CD/DVD/Blu-ray players that I have had including a Denon 3910, and my upgraded versions of a Denon 5910, Denon 3800 BDCI Blu-ray player, and my current OPPO BDP-83SE NuForce Edition Blu-ray player. The affect of the Herbies Black Hole and the Millennium Carbon Fiber CD mats have been quite noticeable immediately and it is not a placebo affect.

I also can not understand some of the comments and resistance since many have already found that lifting subwoofers off of the floor and lifting speakers off of the floor and such improve their performance.

The CD mats are working at the source component where only having a very slight amount of movement and vibration can have an adverse affect on the sound just as in the case of a turntable stylus being affected by vibration.

Rich

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by seeweda

I'd also like to know if using something like this over time puts added tension on the internal components of a player causing it to fail sooner that it would under normal use. It sounds too much like a placebo to me.

I can not say for sure and I have not noticed any issues with the Herbies Black Hole as long as the adhesive is still working (I have noticed some issues at times with the Millennium Carbon Fiber Mat slipping). The Herbies Black Hole Mat is 1.75" diameter x .021" thick with a Weight of 1.1 gram.

Rich

[curse]

please.. While this may fix vibration issues you have to ask yourself. Why on earth am i having vibration issues?

[Chindogu]

I'm still not seeing any real hard evidence on how this thing is supposed to work.

CDs already have error correction built-in for corrupted data. A disc vibrating so much that there are read errors wouldn't cause a loss in fidelity, it would cause playback to skip because of the loss of data in the lazers stream. Or so my experience with portable players tells me.

[Blaumann]

I am a "high-end" sceptic, but i've heard differences between power chords and stuff like that. So i can say from experience, that even though some things might sound improbable, they can still cause a difference. If it's a worthwhile improvement, well that's another question.

Since these mats aren't very expensive, i'm thinking about getting a few and testing this just for fun, but with an open mind. Have to check out, where i can get them here in Germany.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Chindogu

I'm still not seeing any real hard evidence on how this thing is supposed to work.

If it works, does it matter? FWIW, like I said above, I'm sceptical. But I'm open-minded too.

CDs already have error correction built-in for corrupted data. A disc vibrating so much that there are read errors wouldn't cause a loss in fidelity, it would cause playback to skip because of the loss of data in the lazers stream. Or so my experience with portable players tells me.

How about this (sheer conjecture on my part): the spinning CD vibrates, causing correctable read errors from the disc. Those errors are corrected, sending the 0s and 1s merrily on their way. But maybe the extra work the error correction entails causes tiny ripples on the power supply rails, which in turn has an effect on the audio performance. If that is the case and these damping discs do indeed reduced the spinning CD's vibrations, then it is plausible that they could make a difference.

True story: years ago when I owned a CD player, I heard about the importance properly isolating the CD player for better sound quality. Like you I didn't believe a word of it, but I spent a few bucks on a Mission Isoplat isolation platform. I put it under my CD player, fully expecting to hear no change whatsoever, so you can imaging my surprise when I DID hear an improvement! I removed the Isoplat and heard the sound change again.

SInce that time, I have been convinced that many of these tweeks have merit and can (not necessarily do)have an effect on sound quality. The only way to know for sure is to try it and see.

[naturephoto1]

What I find somewhat astounding about some of the responses here is that people do not even think that spending $1 plus shipping for one of these is worth the effort of finding out whether these in fact work. You will never know what you may be missing in the performance without trying these.

Hopefully, someone like Rich Teer, John, or Rhett will decide to order 1 or more of these to try them and report their findings because obviously many of you do not believe or trust my assessment.

By the way there is a 90 day money back guarantee on these products.

Rich

[doctorsteve]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

The Black Hole mat makes a tighter bond between the disc and the clamp of the player and reduces vibrations; it most definitely does improve the audio performance.
Rich

To the best of my knowledge, doesn't the 'clamp' include a magnet of some kind, so that the top magnet/bottom magnet mate to keep the disc secured - as opposed to pressure alone?

If so, wouldn't this rubber mat reduce the ability of the magnets to 'bond' magnetically?

Cheers,

Doc