7.1 Audio Question

[Shanester]

Hi,

Yesterday I was watching "W." on my Sony BDP-S550 when I clicked on display on my remote is showed dts-hd master audio 5/2.1

Then for fun I rewatched Rambo & 3:10 To Yuma they both showed dst-hd master audio 3/4.1

Why the difference??

I currently have 5.1 Polk Audio RM6750's and will be getting 2 more to have full 7.1

I think these speakers are really amazing and sound crystal clear.

My reciever is a Denon AVR-788 which passes through HDMI video/audio only as my Sony playey does the decoding

Cheers!

[solarrdadd]

all of the titles you mentioned are DTS-HD-MA except for 3:10 to Yuma which is uncompressed PCM 7.1 so you shouldn't have gotten the DTS light for that. since your receiver doesn't decode either of the lossless codecs and won't support bitstream via HDMI, are you stating you did a "display" from your sony and that is what you saw? I know your receiver will "pass thru" the LPCM signal from your player since it (your player) does the decoding onboard; is your player set to do "onboard decoding" of the HD codecs and then it sends them out LPCM via HDMI? If that is the case then the only thing you should be seeing on your receiver for an input is something like "multichannel LPCM" & the number of channels, i.e. 5 - 7.1, check your setup.
as for the numbers you got, i'm not sure how your receiver interprets the signal via pass-thru. I can only recommend that you read your manual for that. it should tell you what those numbers mean.
you should be seeing 7.1, unless the receiver during the speaker setup & calibration "knows" that you don't have the 2 additional surround back speakers connected then it will only show 5.1 out but it should show that you are receiving 7.1 in from the player.

[Shanester]

Thanks Solar! Very helpful info

I was looking at my display on the Sony remote not the reciever.

My HDMI menu is always set up on "automatic" on my reciever

And my reciever always shows 5.1 ch stereo dvd usually

Is this correct??

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by Shanester

Thanks Solar! Very helpful info

I was looking at my display on the Sony remote not the reciever.

My HDMI menu is always set up on "automatic" on my reciever

And my reciever always shows 5.1 ch stereo dvd usually

Is this correct??

no, does your receiver have a setting/listening mode for "multichannel LPCM"? if it does then select that. If it doesn't have the "multichannel" perhaps it has "direct", if it does have "direct" and not "multichannel" then use "direct", though, "multichannel is better in most cases" this way you will simply be listening to exactly what is being streamed by your source/player, in your case if your playing a blu with lossless codec, the player will decode it and send it to the receiver as a "multichannel LPCM" at however many channels it's supposed to give. you should not be getting 5 or 7.1 channels of stereo unless your source is sending you 5.1 channels of stereo (and who or why would it be doing or want that?) I'm not sure what "automatic" is doing, also make sure your player is set do do all decoding "onboard"

when everything is setup, you should be getting this light on your receiver (i hope) "multichannel LPCM" and your player should be displaying (when pressed) "the name of the codec, i.e. DD, DD+, DTS, Dolby True HD, DTS-HD-MA, but sending it out as a deacoded LPCM, you with me!?!
keep me/us posted.

[TheZoof]

That's what I do. I have the AVR-888 and when hooked up passthrough it always says Multichannel or Multichannel 7.1.

It only goes to Dolby PL or Dolby Digital 5.1 if processing is required.

[BIslander]

Denons don't have Listening Modes like the Onkyos. With Denon, you set the digital input to Auto and it will take whatever format the player sends - DTS, DD, or PCM. If you want to process the audio further, you apply whatever surround mode (PLII, DTS Neo:6, etc) you want for each input. So, it looks like Shanester has his Denon set properly.

As for the player showing 5/2.1 or 3/4.1, those are simply two different ways of saying the source track is 7.1. Different syntax is all.

[Shanester]

yes it does have the option of "direct" or "multi channel"

I'll check tonight and let you know.

What kind of audio have I been getting up until now??

[Shanester]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Denons don't have Listening Modes like the Onkyos. With Denon, you set the digital input to Auto and it will take whatever format the player sends - DTS, DD, or PCM. If you want to process the audio further, you apply whatever surround mode (PLII, DTS Neo:6, etc) you want for each input. So, it looks like Shanester has his Denon set properly.

As for the player showing 5/2.1 or 3/4.1, those are simply two different ways of saying the source track is 7.1. Different syntax is all.

Thanks for the confirmation BIslander

I was pretty sure it was set correctly. My sound is amazing in my 10 x 18 living room. I set up my speakers using the Audysset EQ

[solarrdadd]

i have just read your manual, go to page 34, under "surround modes" make sure you select "standard" that is what is used for PCM Multichannel sources, like your player. make sure your player is set to decode all codec onboard. when this is set up like this, and you are playing either lossless (LPCM, Dolby True HD or DTS-HD-MA) or lossy (DD, DD+, DTS) and you hit "display" for your receiver you will see either of the following:

• multichannel in
• multichannel in + PLIIx - Cinema
• multichannel in + PLIIx - music
• multichannel in 5 or 7.1

this is according to your manual, also on page 25 HDMI audio out -set to "AMP" put on the movie "3:10 to yuma" and when you press display on your receiver it should say multichannel 7.1 (as your input signal)
press display on your player and it should say something like (7.1 uncompressed or multichannel or LPCM out)
if you put on a movie that has DTS-HD-MA 5 or 7.1 your receiver should say the same thing as listed for "3:10 to yuma" when hitting display, however, your player when hitting display will say DTS-HD-MA in either 5 or 7.1

keep us posted.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Shanester

yes it does have the option of "direct" or "multi channel"

In the Denon world, Direct is considered a Surround Mode, like PLII or Jazz Club. Direct bypasses the tone circuitry for potentially purer sound. Try it and see if it makes a difference.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by Shanester

Thanks Solar! Very helpful info

I was looking at my display on the Sony remote not the reciever.

My HDMI menu is always set up on "automatic" on my reciever

And my reciever always shows 5.1 ch stereo dvd usually

Is this correct??

I did some more digging, check page 62 in your manual, if you are seeing 5.1 ch stereo then it's because your system is set to "DSP simulation 7 channel stereo" and the reason you don't see 5.1 is because your 2 back channels are not setup. you don't want to use the "dsp simulation" your not getting true surround. look at page 61, you want to be using "standard" then your true multichannel will be displayed and used. it will say "multichannel in + PLIIx - cinema" until you get your surround back channels set up then it will say "multichannel in 7.1" acknowledging the surround 2 back channels.

[Shanester]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

I did some more digging, check page 62 in your manual, if you are seeing 5.1 ch stereo then it's because your system is set to "DSP simulation 7 channel stereo" and the reason you don't see 5.1 is because your 2 back channels are not setup. you don't want to use the "dsp simulation" your not getting true surround. look at page 61, you want to be using "standard" then your true multichannel will be displayed and used. it will say "multichannel in + PLIIx - cinema" until you get your surround back channels set up then it will say "multichannel in 7.1" acknowledging the surround 2 back channels.

This is starting to make a lot more sense. Thanks.

I will try it tonight

[BIslander]

You want to start out with no surround processing. In fact, you generally want to stay there since the surround modes offer nothing of value (in my opinion ) when the source is multichannel.

Set the Input Mode to Auto.
As solarrdadd posted, select Standard to turn off all surround modes.

That's it. The Denon will play whatever format is being output by the player and will not apply any additional signal processing.

If your AVR display is saying 5 Channel Stereo, then you may have applied a Surround Mode. The 5 channel stereo mode usually cannot be applied to a multichannel PCM input, just to a stereo source. Do you hear dialog at near full volume in your surround channels? That's what happens with "all channel" stereo, which is fine for party background music, but no good for movies. If you are actually getting a stereo feed from your player, there's a setup issue somewhere.

[Shanester]

Originally Posted by BIslander

You want to start out with no surround processing. In fact, you generally want to stay there since the surround modes offer nothing of value (in my opinion ) when the source is multichannel.

Set the Input Mode to Auto.
As solarrdadd posted, select Standard to turn off all surround modes.

That's it. The Denon will play whatever format is being output by the player and will not apply any additional signal processing.

If your AVR display is saying 5 Channel Stereo, then you may have applied a Surround Mode. The 5 channel stereo mode usually cannot be applied to a multichannel PCM input, just to a stereo source. Do you hear dialog at near full volume in your surround channels? That's what happens with "all channel" stereo, which is fine for party background music, but no good for movies. If you are actually getting a stereo feed from your player, there's a setup issue somewhere.

Will I still be able to use the Audyssey set up for my spekers??

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Shanester

Will I still be able to use the Audyssey set up for my spekers??

Yes, absolutely.

This is just about processing the incoming audio from each of your playback sources - Blu-ray, TV, and any other disc players of game consoles you may be using. Bass management, distance adjustments, and any other Audyssey EQ adjustments will still happen.

[Shanester]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Yes, absolutely.

This is just about processing the incoming audio from each of your playback sources - Blu-ray, TV, and any other disc players of game consoles you may be using. Bass management, distance adjustments, and any other Audyssey EQ adjustments will still happen.

So I need to select "standard" for my surround mode?? and I should see 5.1 multi channel until I get my 2 back speakers then it should say 7.1??

I should no longer see "5.1 ch stereo"??

Will it sound better than it does now??

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Shanester

So I need to select "standard" for my surround mode??

yes, I believe it is the button on the remote labeled STD. (My AVR-3805 has a Standard button on the unit itself, as well. But, I don't see such a button on the 788.) Selecting STD turns off any surround modes and plays the audio as it was sent by the player.

and I should see 5.1 multi channel until I get my 2 back speakers then it should say 7.1??

The display will tell you what is arriving from the player. You will see MULTI CH IN most of the time. If you have configured your Denon for 7.1 AND if the disc has a 7.1 soundtrack, then you will see MULTI CH IN 7.1.

I should no longer see "5.1 ch stereo"??

Correct. (Does it actually say "5.1 ch stereo" as opposed to "5CH STEREO"? That doesn't sound like Denon syntax.)

At any rate, 5 CH STEREO means a stereo source is being duplicated to all of your speakers. But, you should not be able to apply 5CH STEREO if the incoming signal is multichannel. So, if you are really seeing that on the display, it suggests that you are not getting multichannel PCM from your S550. That's why I asked in a previous post whether you hear dialog in the surround speakers. That's what happens when you apply the 5 CH STEREO mode to a stereo signal.

Also, you can check the format of the arriving audio by pressing the Display button omn the remote. Select option 2 (Audio Input Signal). The screen will display the type of audio and the number/layout of the channels. 3/2/.1 means three fronts, two surrounds, and a subchannel.

Will it sound better than it does now??

Yes, if you are currently getting stereo and faking surround with the 5CH STEREO mode. No, if you are already properly set for multichannel PCM.

[solarrdadd]

i downloaded both of the pdf manuals for your sony player and your denon receiver.

recommended settings for your sony player:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...pl?mdl=BDPS550

link to manual download above, select operating instructions.

page 46:
audio output priority-
select - HDMI

page 49:
audio HDMI-
select - auto

BD audio settings-
select - direct (for primary audio only)

please read page 66, first colume listed "disc/source", second column listed "auto" and read items *3, *5. this information on page 66 will confirm all that i have told you. again, please read your manuals and you will have true HD audio from your existing setup.


recommended settings for your denon receiver:

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3641.asp

link to manual above, select owners manuals.

page 25:
HDMI setup
HDMI audio out-
select - amp

page 37:
playing multichannel sources-
select standard

also, again, page 62 explains why you are seeing/getting 5.1 channel stereo display/sound. its because your using the surround mode "DSP Simulation" with the selection of 7-channel stereo, the reason you see 5.1 channel stereo is because (see *3 in the manual on page 62) you don't have your surround back 2 channels connected and turned on.


Summary:

look over your manuals, from what i see in your manuals, these settings will give you the sound you want. this setup will have your sony do all of the decoding of all codecs onboard and send it out as LPCM via HDMI to your denon. your denon will get the pre-decoded audio and play it as Multichannel LPCM sound/source all of the following will be decoded at the sony, DD, DD+, DTS, DTS 96/24, Dolby True HD, DTS-HD-High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD-MA. even though your receiver doesn't support HD audio in via HDMI when your player is set to direct & auto as listed in the player settings above your player will see that your receiver doesn't support the HD audio and will decode it onboard and output all of the settings as LPCM.

best of luck, i really want you to get true HD audio like you should, you have the ability, it's just gonna take some reading and verifying/adjusting settings in both your player and receivers setups!

keep me/us posted!

[Shanester]

Solar & BIslander,

I took your advice and made some modifications last night. I think it's ok now.

My reciever now shows "Multi Channel In" dvd. I only had 5 speakers for now. Will be getting two more soon for full 7.1.

I know that in of the the menus I think it's "audio setup" I have to select (7.1) right now it's at Zone2 foR 5.1

I did notice the dialogue now comes only from the centre speaker which I guess is the way it's suppose to be as oppose to all five speakers.

I also made some othe rminor adjustemnts to the sound menus and it seems to be better overall than before.

I tested Rambo (great disc btw) and I use to have the volume at about -20 and it was pretty loud for me now even at -25 to -30 everything comes in loud and clear

The scene where Sara goes and visits John and there talking on the doc and it's pouring rain. I really felt like I was standing in the middle of that storm.

I guess my overall set up is correct now??

I have another question when I click on the "information menu" to check the status of everything nothing pops up. How come??

On my player (sony s550) I should always leave at 48khz/16khz instead of 96/24???

Thanks for all your help guys

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Shanester

On my player (sony s550) I should always leave at 48khz/16khz instead of 96/24?

That depends on your AVR's capabilities. I am pretty sure the Denon can handle 96/24, so change the Sony settings to allow those outputs when they are on the disc.

Glad you got things dialed in.