Panasonic Viera Z1 Thoughts?

[ShockWave]

What do you guys thing of the new Z1 coming out? That wireless feature is pretty cool!

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-2009-pri...exclusive/395/

[Meathead]

$6000? pass!!!!!!!!!

[lojack1976]

This set has been out for a little while now. I've seen it in my local Best Buy Magnolia and its very impressive. The picture is more accurate than the V10 and the blacks may even be a hair better. The styling is very attractive too. Too bad it only comes in 54" and its crazy expensive. They want $5500 for it which is just plain ridiculous.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

The picture is more accurate than the V10 and the blacks may even be a hair better.

Could that be due to the settings/calibration - I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same panel as the V10 with all the same calibration options. (Pro Cinema settings)

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Could that be due to the settings/calibration - I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same panel as the V10 with all the same calibration options. (Pro Cinema settings)

All of the new Panny's have the same panel, but every model differs in performance. I don't know what it is exactly that Panasonic has done, but the G10 easily has better blacks than the S1 which I've seen side by side, and from what I can tell the V10 beats the G10 in blacks.

I didn't see the V10 and G10 side by side so I can't be 100% on that one, but from seeing them in the same store I'm pretty sure the V10 is slightly better in this regard. HDGuru showed pictures of a V10 being considerably darker. I'm not sure how his results came out so dramatic, but from I've seen myself there is at least a small difference. The V10 definitely has better color accuracy than the G10.

The Z1 I saw was beside a Samsung 850 with a Pioneer 141FD above it and the Z1 was very close to the Pioneer in black level. When the TV's went completely black I could see a very faint glow on the Z1, but it didn't seem to be quite as much as the V10 on the other wall. That V10 was directly beside a 151FD and I could easily see the difference between those sets. The difference between the Z1 and the 141FD wasn't quite as noticeable.

It was also pretty apparent that the Z1's color accuracy was much better than the rest of the Panasonic lineup. There wasn't any green tinge and the picture looked extremely close to the Pioneer's picture in every aspect. I was very impressed, but like I said the price tag doesn't really make much sense for that size.

The focus on ultra-thin displays just baffles me. I'd rather have a slightly thicker TV with a great picture for less money. Why get a Z1 when the Pioneer is a bigger, cheaper, and better option and the 65" V10 is bigger and cheaper with nearly the same picture?

[dereksworl]

Seen this set at BB. the color honestly, is just ridiculous. all i see when i look at this set is silver lol. Its so much of a distraction i cant even describe it in words. why they went with a design like that is beyond me. TV manufacturers need to get it through their heads that panel/bezzels should be black.

(im looking at you too Samsung).

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

All of the new Panny's have the same panel, but every model differs in performance.

Only the S1, G10, G10, V10 and Z1 have the NeoPDP panel. The X1 series is last year's model, as is several other offshoots for Costco, etc.

The focus on ultra-thin displays just baffles me.

This is what I mean though, from every Panasonic dealer, rep and guys like DNice I've read the only differences between the Z1 and V10 line are the depth of the panel and wireless.

Not sure why it's limited to 54" only in that case, but that's what I've read. There's been no tests to compare the two side by side yet which may tell more on the story. Until they're calibrated I wouldn't know whether differences in colour are due to something in the electronics or just differences in set-up.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Only the S1, G10, G10, V10 and Z1 have the NeoPDP panel. The X1 series is last year's model, as is several other offshoots for Costco, etc.



This is what I mean though, from every Panasonic dealer, rep and guys like DNice I've read the only differences between the Z1 and V10 line are the depth of the panel and wireless.

Not sure why it's limited to 54" only in that case, but that's what I've read. There's been no tests to compare the two side by side yet which may tell more on the story. Until they're calibrated I wouldn't know whether differences in colour are due to something in the electronics or just differences in set-up.

The X1 is still G12 glass its just not the NEO PDP. An interesting thing is the X1 was reviewed by Cnet and they found it to produce deeper blacks than the S1. As a matter of fact I noticed this same phenomenon just a couple of months ago when I compared the S1 and the G10.

There was an X1 right above the S1 and I could clearly that the X1 had deeper blacks. I didn't notice the horizontal line issue, but from what I've read that issue was fixed in the newer ones being manufactured.

From a technical standpoint the S1 and the G10 are the same save for the THX mode, but its pretty clear that the black levels differ even without THX mode engaged.

Like I said earlier, I haven't seen the G10 and the V10 side by side, but I viewed them in the same store and they did indeed differ in picture quality. I've seen the G10 in several stores and it always looked the same to me, and the V10 was just much more impressive to my eyes.

In the Magnolia store they have the V10 and the Z1 in the same room, but they are across from each other. I can't explain exactly why these sets seem to perform differently. My guess is that its something intentionally done with the processing.

I think it helps Panasonic justify the pricing differences to an extent. Why buy a V10 if its going to perform exactly like a G10 save for the 96hz feature? I know that part of the allure of the Z1 is that it's super thin with the sexy bezel, but why spend so much more if there is no significant improvement over the V10?

People who consider these higher end sets are probably more critical of picture quality than the guy who buys the S1 on a whim. I'm sure if the performance was exactly the same not many people would anti up for the higher end models just for the slimmer form factors.

[HDTV1080P]

The sound quality of the speakers in the Z1 is better then the V10. This is important for those that do not have a stereo system or surround system (Some people place TV's in small offices or bedrooms and a surround system is not always easy to fit in every room). For those that never plan on using the speakers in the TV it is a not that big of issue.

[Hammie]

My local dealer said that the 1 series has the best processor in that line followed by the 10 and then 15. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but based on prices, that makes sense.

He said the wireless in the Z1 works great. But working in the IT field, I don't trust anything wireless for critical applications like my HD. I'll take hardwired any day.

[xneox]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

He said the wireless in the Z1 works great. But working in the IT field, I don't trust anything wireless for critical applications like my HD. I'll take hardwired any day.

The tech that worked on my U was in training for the Z1 while he was making visits to my place. He said wireless interference is a real issue. For example - I have my wireless router mounted to the back of my cabinet, directly under my tv. Wouldn't be an option if I had the Z1. Also, cell phones & microwaves are a problem.

[xneox]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The sound quality of the speakers in the Z1 is better then the V10. This is important for those that do not have a stereo system or surround system (Some people place TV's in small offices or bedrooms and a surround system is not always easy to fit in every room). For those that never plan on using the speakers in the TV it is a not that big of issue.

Heh. 54" V10 @ $2300 + powered soundbar @ $300-$500 still doesn't come close to the ridiculous price of the Z1 (and I guarantee you the sound from the powered soundbar will annihilate the sound coming from the stock Z1 speakers) .

Also, using your 'tight spaces' logic, the same bedroom or office dwellers will have a tough time placing the i/o module (a bit larger than their blu-ray players) & wireless transmitter of the Z1, no?

Z1 i/o module atop a blu-ray player, and the wireless transmitter to the left:


They're not selling it on improved sound quality. Try again.


ETA:

My personal thoughts are that the Z1 is simply a flagship model just to have a flagship model. It's an exercise in technology...it's Panasonic pushing the envelope...flexing their gadget muscle. They never meant it to make a ton of money...they never meant to sell a ton. The rest of their product line will more than pay for it. They are using it to further plasma technology...to bring attention to themselves...to cement their position as the top player in the market. I think it's a smart move...but to sit here and talk about it like it's another Viera to be compared to the V10, G15, G10, etc. is misguided. The Z1 is the Ducati 1098 to the V10's R1...the R1 does everything as well...but it's still not a Ducati. For more than double the price, you don't get slightly better blacks...you don't get better sound...you don't get a more accurate picture...you don't get a slimmer design. You may get some or all of these things, but for double the price, that's not the point. You get a Z1. That's it.

[zak88lx]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

Too bad it only comes in 54" and its crazy expensive. They want $5500 for it which is just plain ridiculous.

You think that's ridiculous?
Look at the Canadian price for the same TV on BestBuy.ca:



$5,500 US converted to CDN using the current exchange rate is $5,958.74.
Yet the price of this same TV in Canada is a whopping $7,500!!!

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by zak88lx

You think that's ridiculous?
Look at the Canadian price for the same TV on BestBuy.ca:



$5,500 US converted to CDN using the current exchange rate is $5,958.74.
Yet the price of this same TV in Canada is a whopping $7,500!!!

Wowwwww...that's outrageous! A $1500 markup over the US price...they're bending people over.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

In the Magnolia store they have the V10 and the Z1 in the same room, but they are across from each other. I can't explain exactly why these sets seem to perform differently. My guess is that its something intentionally done with the processing.

I think it helps Panasonic justify the pricing differences to an extent. Why buy a V10 if its going to perform exactly like a G10 save for the 96hz feature? I know that part of the allure of the Z1 is that it's super thin with the sexy bezel, but why spend so much more if there is no significant improvement over the V10?

People who consider these higher end sets are probably more critical of picture quality than the guy who buys the S1 on a whim. I'm sure if the performance was exactly the same not many people would anti up for the higher end models just for the slimmer form factors.

Originally Posted by xneox

For more than double the price, you don't get slightly better blacks...you don't get better sound...you don't get a more accurate picture...you don't get a slimmer design. You may get some or all of these things, but for double the price, that's not the point. You get a Z1. That's it.

I think I found one of the other differences that may explain why the Z1 can look better in store than the V10 - Studio Reference Mode. It's only on the Z1.

Perhaps you can have an ISF calibration done and get the same performance from the V10, but the Studio Reference Mode is designed by PHL who do all the encodings for Disney and Fox Blu-ray's amongst others so it may explain why it's easy to have it show off the WOW factor with just a simply button press.

Originally Posted by lojack1976

Wowwwww...that's outrageous! A $1500 markup over the US price...they're bending people over.

They're not, Panasonic Canada is. They have to buy through Panasonic Canada for Canadian distribution.

MSRP is $7,999 - http://panasonic.ca/english/audiovid...?tv=Z%20series

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I think I found one of the other differences that may explain why the Z1 can look better in store than the V10 - Studio Reference Mode. It's only on the Z1.

Perhaps you can have an ISF calibration done and get the same performance from the V10, but the Studio Reference Mode is designed by PHL who do all the encodings for Disney and Fox Blu-ray's amongst others so it may explain why it's easy to have it show off the WOW factor with just a simply button press.



They're not, Panasonic Canada is. They have to buy through Panasonic Canada for Canadian distribution.

MSRP is $7,999 - http://panasonic.ca/english/audiovid...?tv=Z%20series

That may very well explain it Doby. Either way the difference wasn't huge, and I personally don't think the price difference is worth it. As for the Canadian price it really doesn't matter who's responsible. A butt-pounding is still a butt-pounding, and that's definitely a butt-pounding waiting to happen. LOL.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

The X1 is still G12 glass its just not the NEO PDP. An interesting thing is the X1 was reviewed by Cnet and they found it to produce deeper blacks than the S1. As a matter of fact I noticed this same phenomenon just a couple of months ago when I compared the S1 and the G10.

There was an X1 right above the S1 and I could clearly that the X1 had deeper blacks. I didn't notice the horizontal line issue, but from what I've read that issue was fixed in the newer ones being manufactured.

This would not surprise me. I have the 42 inch X14, the Sams/Costco version, and it has noticeably deeper blacks than my PX80U from last year. For $600, I really was not expecting blacks that deep. It has the infinite black panel as well, so states the box. I'm currently breaking it in with about 60 or so hours and the picture has improved quite a bit and should continue to do so for the next 50-100 hours.

[xneox]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

...the 42 inch X14, the Sams/Costco version....For $600....

There's only one thing keeping me from having one of these in my bedroom right now...and she's carrying my second son.

Seriously...$600 for a top-quality 42" plasma display. What a wonderful world.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by xneox

There's only one thing keeping me from having one of these in my bedroom right now...and she's carrying my second son.

Seriously...$600 for a top-quality 42" plasma display. What a wonderful world.

Plasma...ain't it the best? Cheap, reliable, and truly excellent quality. And tax free right now! Can't be beat. It has an excellent picture, better than my PX80U that I paid $800 for last year. I'm currently breaking it in in the bedroom and will be moving it to the theater room soon. One thing you also get at Sams Club is the lifetime return policy, so if the set breaks down in 10 years I can easily return it.

[SPH]

You can buy a brand new 58" v10 for 2200 at 6ave with coupon...Screw the z1