Audio: Sony S550 vs Samsung BD-P1600

[tivoyahoo]

Which unit would give me better sound for blu-ray playback?

I am pairing the player with a Pioneer VSX-D850S AV Receiver (Dolby Digital/DTS-ES) which has 7.1 analog inputs.

The S550 has analog multichannel outputs. Would that be the preferred connection over coaxial or optical? Is that the only way to listen to Dolby True HD & DTS-HD via this Pioneer AVR? Is this lossless?

The bd-p1600 lacks analog output and only offers optical. If I was pairing the bd-p1600 with the Pioneer AVR would I want to use the Bitstream (re-encode) audio setting vs. PCM? When using the Re-encode setting the Pioneer AVR lights up showing it is getting a DTS stream. For PCM, the samsung manual states that it may not come through as multichannel.

In summary, for this Pioneer receiver, should I opt for a player with analog multichannel output? Will that provide me with significantly better audio quality for BluRay discs as opposed to a player with coax/optical only?

As far as picture quality considerations, my initial impression (viewing 2 BD discs) was that the sony s550 had a little better picture quality compared to the Samsung bd-p1600. They were attached to a Philips 55pl9447 (LCOS) which I believe only supports 720p, however I was able to set the Sony to output 1080p and the Philips seemed to accept it fine although it seemed that forcing 24frames may have caused an issue for the Philips TV so I turned it off. Is the Philips tv simply able to downconvert the 1080p signal from the Sony?? I am not sure why it worked when it's not a 1080p TV.

I have a bit of a preference for the Samsung since it offers Pandora. The other on-demand services from Samsung (netflix & youtube) are available via Tivo which is connected in same room to the same TV. I expect the Samsung & Tivo will both get Blockbuster on-demand access. So the only added benefit in that respect boils down to Pandora on the Samsung which the Sony doesn't have.

What other factors should I consider? Do both models playback the same file types from usb? such as .mkv? or does one offer more video codec playback from usb?

As another thought, I saw an open box Samsung BD-P2550 for $150 at Best Buy. That model offers both analog multichannel output and Pandora. Would that model be a better fit in this situation? What drawbacks does the 2550 have in comparison to the Sony s550 (other than Picture Quality I presume)?

Any other sub $200 players that I should consider? How many in that price range have analog multichannel outputs?

Or should I spend money on replacing the Pioneer AVR? Would I want one that has hdmi input and decodes Dolby True HD & DTS-HD? What's the starting price for a receiver that offers this?

Input and Feedback is appreciated.
Thank you very much.

[osmodiarshazbot]

I own a BDPS550 hooked up over 7.1 analogue and it sounds AWESOME! I have not used the Samsung. All I can say is that with a previous setup of the BDPS1 over analogue to the 550, I'm glad I get all the latest audio codecs. I absolutely LOVE the sound that comes through my receiver. It all sounds more natural than DD or DTS, which is "farty" when played over coax or optical. I listen to everything over analogue and have it hooked up coax just for reference.

[jonesyg27]

The only way to get the lossless audio is with the multichannel analogue outputs. If you are considering Samsung, then look at the BD-P3600, not the 1600. There are numerous threads here about it and a thread about the Sony. The Samsung 2550 you saw would be a good deal too, provided it works and you update the firmware. Samsung gets a lot criticism here for lack of customer service and poor quality BD players, though. You should also research the official websites for all the specs and then look at online reviews.

I don't think you need to replace your receiver just because of a Blu-ray player. If you like the sound of your receiver, just stick with the analogue outputs. I did that and couldn't be happier.

[osmodiarshazbot]

Originally Posted by jonesyg27

The only way to get the lossless audio is with the multichannel analogue outputs. If you are considering Samsung, then look at the BD-P3600, not the 1600. There are numerous threads here about it and a thread about the Sony. The Samsung 2550 you saw would be a good deal too, provided it works and you update the firmware. Samsung gets a lot criticism here for lack of customer service and poor quality BD players, though. You should also research the official websites for all the specs and then look at online reviews.

I don't think you need to replace your receiver just because of a Blu-ray player. If you like the sound of your receiver, just stick with the analogue outputs. I did that and couldn't be happier.

Agree, Sony has always been on top when it comes to firmware and support.

[tivoyahoo]

First, thank you for all the informative feedback. I've been trying out the multichannel analog outputs of the S550 further and have been impressed.

I have coax still connected so I can compare analog & digital by changing source on my receiver, but I want to get both the analog & digital audio settings properly set up for a fair comparison. Should I be comparing analog vs. a coax or optical connection? Will the Sony output all 3 (analog multichannel, coax, and optical) simultaneously if I connect them all? Is this affected by the "Audio Output Priority" Setting?

On the S550, under Audio Settings I have "Audio Output Priority" set to Multi Channel Analog. Below that in the menu is "Speaker Settings" - Size, Distance, Level. I have each of these individual settings available through my Receiver so I left them at their default values. What should I set them to on the Sony? Does it matter? Just have them all equal? default? so that they are balanced as they are sent to the receiver and then adjust individually as necessary at the receiver?

Also, under Audio Settings I wasn't sure on some other menu choices:

BD Audio Setting: Mix or Direct?
Audio ATT: I have this set to off
DD & DTS: Downmix PCM or DD / DTS
Audio DRC: I have it set to Auto (Should this be Wide Range?)
48khz/96khz PCM: I have this set to 96khz/24bit.

My Pioneer AVR is 96khz capable, however when I hit the "display" button on the Sony remote I am still seeing 48khz in the pop up display on screen. I presume this is due to the discs I am playing. Are most discs 48khz? I tried one that is DTS HD MA and another that is DD True HD but see 48khz in both cases. I really like the popup on-screen display of the Sony to be able to see that type of information. Do the Samsungs provide this type of information or only the track selected? I haven't seen 48khz vs. 96 on the 1600 or 2550, but haven't checked out the 3600.

Also, I checked out the specs of the Sony BDP-S560 and it doesn't have multichannel output so it looks like the S550 in my case is the only Sony model in the running.

[Kryptonic]

Don't buy a Samsung. Get the Sony. Much more reliable player.

[tivoyahoo]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Don't buy a Samsung. Get the Sony. Much more reliable player.

The Samsung 2550 & 3600 offer Pandora which is a plus for me and each has 7.1 analog output. I think given my receiver I'm ruling out the 1600 due to lack of analog 7.1.

Also, what about the Panasonic DMP-BD80 which has 7.1 analog output? Amazon has the BD80 for $180 with free shipping. It supports some features I don't believe the others do: divx, xvid, and can access Picasa.

Are there other players I should consider that can be bought for <$200 and have analog 7.1?

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by tivoyahoo

Should I be comparing analog vs. a coax or optical connection?

Coax and optical are the same.

Will the Sony output all 3 (analog multichannel, coax, and optical) simultaneously if I connect them all? Is this affected by the "Audio Output Priority" Setting?

The non-priority outputs are limited to stereo, so you can't switch seamlessless. You need to change the Audio Ouptput Priority each time.

On the S550, under Audio Settings I have "Audio Output Priority" set to Multi Channel Analog. Below that in the menu is "Speaker Settings" - Size, Distance, Level. I have each of these individual settings available through my Receiver so I left them at their default values. What should I set them to on the Sony? Does it matter? Just have them all equal? default? so that they are balanced as they are sent to the receiver and then adjust individually as necessary at the receiver?

Your digital sources use the receiver's settings. Analog outputs use the player's settings. So, you will need to go through the player configurations for multichannel analog.

With analog, you also need to boost the subwoofer in your receiver or at the sub itself. The sub channel is output 10db low to prevent clipping.

BD Audio Setting: Mix or Direct?
Audio ATT: I have this set to off
DD & DTS: Downmix PCM or DD / DTS
Audio DRC: I have it set to Auto (Should this be Wide Range?)
48khz/96khz PCM: I have this set to 96khz/24bit.

Set BD Audio to Direct for lossless. But, change it to Mix to hear secondary audio. This is important for dts-MA, which switches to the DTS core when set to Mix.
Set DD & DTS to DD/DTS. Downmix produces stereo, not 5.1.
Set DRC to Wide Range, which turns it off.

My Pioneer AVR is 96khz capable, however when I hit the "display" button on the Sony remote I am still seeing 48khz in the pop up display on screen. I presume this is due to the discs I am playing. Are most discs 48khz? I tried one that is DTS HD MA and another that is DD True HD but see 48khz in both cases.

Nearly all discs have 48Khz sampling rates.

[RBBrittain]

I deleted most of my reply because BIslander's reply is more comprehensive. However, I do have a couple of points to add to his:

• As I read the poster's question, he was comparing multichannel analog with optical OR coax--not optical with coax. However, as long as the Sony's D/A conversion is of high quality, 7.1 analog should be superior to optical/coax, since optical/coax cannot handle more than 2 channels without lossy compression (DD/DTS). Only HDMI (which the Pioneer won't handle) and multichannel analog can handle LPCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA with full lossless/uncompressed fidelity over more than 2 channels.
• Sony's manual says setting BD Audio Setting to "Mix" limits the output to 48kHz; it must be set to "Direct" to get 96kHz.
• Finally, since you're using an analog connection, the Pioneer's sample-rate capability isn't really relevant, unless it converts the analog input to digital & back again (speakers are always analog); the most relevant sample rates in this case are the disc's and the player's.

[tivoyahoo]

THANK YOU BIslander & RBBrittain for the great information in the latest posts. I've adjusted the audio settings of the S550 according to your posts and am enjoying what I'm hearing from the setup, although I need to adjust the sub still - see below. I abandoned the Samsung BD-P1600 and exchanged it for a Samsung BD-P2550 to get 7.1 analog out, but I haven't connected the 2550 yet to compare with the S550. If I could start the thread again, it should have been S550 vs. BD-P2550 since both have analog 7.1.

Originally Posted by BIslander

Your digital sources use the receiver's settings. Analog outputs use the player's settings. So, you will need to go through the player configurations for multichannel analog.

With analog, you also need to boost the subwoofer in your receiver or at the sub itself. The sub channel is output 10db low to prevent clipping.

That answers why I thought the sub sounded low when using the test tones of the player. First, should I leave the player set to 0 db for sub level? I'm confused on this point since aren't you saying that when using analog the player controlled the levels? If so, how does adjusting the sub level at the receiver help for the analog inputs if it only affects digital inputs? Again, confused on this.

My sub has a twist knob for level. Is it better to adjust at the receiver or sub? Or both receiver & sub? What is a typical db to boost the sub at the receiver to compensate for it being output too low as you wrote? boost it 10db?? The receiver lets me do this, but with the knob on the sub I don't know how much I'm actually adding except by listening. There are no markings.

I just got "Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics" on bluray to play with the audio settings. Is there a better disc (or additional disc) to get for this purpose? I didn't see any others in this category that were bluray format available from Netflix, e.g. aviaII is dvd. Also got Xmen: Wolverine to test out the sub as well since the review here said it had a good lfe track on bluray. Any other movie recommendations I should try for reference for getting my sub set up and tested out? also wondering, is there a list of 96Khz bluray movies? Is this an indication of better quality, or is this pointless? What sources would use the 96khz capability of the Pioneer AVR? SACD? DVD-Audio? Also is there a list of 7.1 movies?

Look forward to feedback on the sub and trying out the recommendations.

FILTER: SHARP?
Also, came across this option I wasn't sure about. With a disc loaded, if you select options from the remote and go to A/V Settings at the top you are presented with this option:
Audio Filter: Sharp or Slow (Looks like the default is Sharp)

SPEAKER CHOICES
Also, I should mention that I have 5 Klipsch HT-SK5 speakers seen here:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Progre.../dp/B0000E2RZM

However I'm not currently using the Klisch subwoofer because it's a passive sub. Instead I have a powered sub - think it is 10" but it's not a Klipsch. The Pioneer AVR would allow me to power the passive matching Klipsch sub off the back channel connections (limiting me to 5.1). Should I use the matching Klipsch sub? Or stay with the powered sub.

Also, I have a pair of Cambridge SoundWorks Newton M80 bookshelf speakers:
http://gadgets.softpedia.com/gadgets...kers-4671.html

And I have a Cambridge Soundworks center channel. Should I run the 3 Cambridge speakers up front, with 4 of the Klipsch for my surround & back pairs, and then use the powered sub? Or use all 5 of the Klipsch: center, 2 surround, 2 back and not use the Cambridge center? In other words, use the Klipsch center over the Cambridge? This is the Cambridge center:
http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/cambr...2_2743crx.aspx

[moviefan]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Don't buy a Samsung. Get the Sony. Much more reliable player.

Ditto! Skip the Samsuck ... their "customer service" is awful!
BUT ...get the OPPO if you can afford it ... it's awesome!

[DIY_HD]

I love my Sony S-550, but analog is a concession. True, it is far superior to optical, it sounds awesome in fact, but there is one major flaw. Only 6% of BDs are 7.1-channel. That means 94% of BDs will play with the back speakers silent unless you switch to optical. This is exactly what I do for DVDs. They don't have lossless tracks anyway, so it fills out the soundfield better. The best thing is to use analog until you can afford to upgrade your AVR to one which has HDMI. Then the AVR can synthesize the back channels on 5.1 sources. Analog inputs bypass the digital signal processing in the AVR, so it won't matrix the back channels. Optical does use DSP, but at the cost of audio fidelity. So analog serves to preserve the investment in your old AVR until you relegate it to your bedroom and buy a new one for your HT!

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by tivoyahoo

First, should I leave the player set to 0 db for sub level? I'm confused on this point since aren't you saying that when using analog the player controlled the levels? If so, how does adjusting the sub level at the receiver help for the analog inputs if it only affects digital inputs? Again, confused on this.

Yes, do not boost the sub output in the player. By convention, LFE is recorded 10dB low to prevent clipping during transmission to the receiver. If you boost the sub output in the player, you defeat the original purpose of recording LFE low in the first place.

As for your confusion - with analog output, the player must handle all digital processing (bass management, distance adjustments, and EQ) prior to doing the digital-to-analog conversion. Those tasks must be performed while the audio is still digital, which is why they can't be done in the AVR. But, analog level trims can still be done by the receiver.

My sub has a twist knob for level. Is it better to adjust at the receiver or sub? Or both receiver & sub?

It can be done in either place and the result will be the same. However, if you turn up the volume at the sub, then that will also affect your digital sources such as DVDs that get decoded in your receiver. So, it's generally better to boost the analog subwoofer output in the receiver, if your AVR allows you to do so without affecting the sub output from your digital sources. Some AVRs have a setting to boost the analog sub output. Others make it more difficult.

What is a typical db to boost the sub at the receiver to compensate for it being output too low as you wrote? boost it 10db??

10dB if speakers are set to large. 15dB if they are set to small since bass management drops the sub output by another 5dB. But, those are approximations.

The receiver lets me do this, but with the knob on the sub I don't know how much I'm actually adding except by listening. There are no markings.

You should get an SPL meter if you want to properly calibrate your system. But, you can also adjust it by ear until it sounds right.

I just got "Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics" on bluray to play with the audio settings. Is there a better disc (or additional disc) to get for this purpose? I didn't see any others in this category that were bluray format available from Netflix, e.g. aviaII is dvd.

I use Avia. I don't know that BD or DVD matters when it comes to setting audio levels. But, from what I've read, DVE is just fine.

is there a list of 96Khz bluray movies? Is this an indication of better quality, or is this pointless? What sources would use the 96khz capability of the Pioneer AVR? SACD? DVD-Audio? Also is there a list of 7.1 movies?

blu-raystats.com has a complete list of Blu-ray releases and you can filter by all sorts of audio parameters.

It's debateable whether 96kHz sources are audibly better. But, since nearly all movies are mastered at 48kHz, it's not much of an issue. Some concert BDs have 96kHz rates as do lots of DVD-Audio discs. SACD is a different format altogether.

[Tarheel72]

You do need to go into the Sony menu and do the speaker settings. That is how the player does bass management which has to be done on the player side when you use analog inputs.