Upgrade Path Decided. Turntable Is First. Suggestions Welcome

[FreddieFerric]

It's been a year now since I built out the existing audio room. While it's been fun and I've enjoyed many quite hours listening to my old favorite vinyl, the time has come to recognize the inevitable... Upgrading, like evolution, must happen.

First, change will be in the front end and that entails a new turntable. Now, not being completely soaked with money, I have to adhere to a rather tight budget of around $2,000.

My leaning is to the Marantz TT 15S1 that comes complete with the Clearaudio Satisfy arm and Virtuoso Ebony MM cartrigde. I've read numerous reviews that this combo/package is really tops for the money ($1,599). Still, I've also been looking at the more basic level VPI tables, but of course, for a bit more money and no cartridge. While I do have a pretty decent Audio Technica AT 150MLX on my existing table that I could migrate to a VPI, I half believe that going with a new TT should also include a new direction in cartridges too.

My criteria is simple...get the best sound for the dollar spent. To that end, I'd welcome rational suggestions that keep things to my budgeted limitations.

After all, I still have 2 new speakers to decide on and a pair of monoblocks too, (although it's going to be very hard to disuade me from the PrimaLuna Prologue Seven's).

The last thing to get replaced will be the Marantz Integrated which I can use as a nice pre-amp in the interim.

[joe1515]

I would also check out Rega P5 and like you already mentioned the VPI Scout.

Good Luck!

Joe

[richteer]

I don't think you could go too wrong with any of your's or Fred's options, and I agree that your TT plans should also include a new cartridge as soon as your budget allows.

Regarding your amp choice, I've owned a pair of the ProLogue Sevens for about 2 years now, and I highly recommend them! You can see them in my system thread driving my MartinLogan Spires, a great combination.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hi Fred,

Prior to the pitfalls of this soon to be ended year, the Marantz TT 15S1 was the TT I had actually put a down-payment on. I did a lot of research, read the available reviews, sought out advice from our fellow vinyl afficionados here and elsewhere, and came to the conclusion that this TT would be a very acceptable fit into my system. Rest assured that you can also get it for cheaper than the MSRP if you have any local dealers around.

The only drawback with the Marantz that I have found, versus a VPI or some of the other TT manufacturers, is the lack of any kind of upgrade path. You need to decide if this is an important consideration for you.

All in all, I think the Marantz is a very solid and capable TT and I sure wish I was spinning my vinyl with it today.

From what I've read, and in conversation with Herman of ProLogue in The Netherlands, and Rich's satisfaction with his 7's, I'd say that is a solid choice for your power requirements. Terrific bang for your dollar investment, tubes and an awesome aesthetic appearance.

Regarding speakers...well, that is a whole other story. You know I love my Totem Sttaf's, and I wouldn't hesitate to go higher up the line if I could, but Martin Logan's, Viennas, Focal JM Lab, Dynaudios, Dalis, Cantons and the like are all excellent choices. Do you have the opportunity to audition any of these or other higher end speakers?

Anyway, great to hear that you're able to upgrade and I wish you much success in getting a system that suits you. I'm here to help in whatever small way I can, and I look forward to following your progress.

John

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I would also check out Rega P5 and like you already mentioned the VPI Scout.

Good Luck!

Joe

That would be a table that I'd like to hear also. I'll have to do some looking in my local area to see if there are any dealers that actually have a demo on hand. I know you like your VPI Classic and I do too. Just wish it were around $600 to $700 less than it's MSRP. BTW, what are your experiences with the 10.5i arm?

Originally Posted by richteer

I don't think you could go too wrong with any of your's or Fred's options, and I agree that your TT plans should also include a new cartridge as soon as your budget allows.

Regarding your amp choice, I've owned a pair of the ProLogue Sevens for about 2 years now, and I highly recommend them! You can see them in my system thread driving my MartinLogan Spires, a great combination.

Hi Rich, I did see the pics of your amps. Seems to me that those PrimaLuna's offer about the best value you could find for tubes anywhere. I guess in the best of all worlds (a world in which I don't live BTW), I would have a pair of tube Mac's, but at 3 to 4 times the price that just won't happen. Have you done any tube rolling? I understand that your amps have an autobias feature that allows for easy tube rolling. Also, are the stock tubes the PrimaLuna branded new Russian Genalex KT 88's?

Originally Posted by John72953

Hi Fred,

Prior to the pitfalls of this soon to be ended year, the Marantz TT 15S1 was the TT I had actually put a down-payment on. I did a lot of research, read the available reviews, sought out advice from our fellow vinyl afficionados here and elsewhere, and came to the conclusion that this TT would be a very acceptable fit into my system. Rest assured that you can also get it for cheaper than the MSRP if you have any local dealers around.

The only drawback with the Marantz that I have found, versus a VPI or some of the other TT manufacturers, is the lack of any kind of upgrade path. You need to decide if this is an important consideration for you.

All in all, I think the Marantz is a very solid and capable TT and I sure wish I was spinning my vinyl with it today.

From what I've read, and in conversation with Herman of ProLogue in The Netherlands, and Rich's satisfaction with his 7's, I'd say that is a solid choice for your power requirements. Terrific bang for your dollar investment, tubes and an awesome aesthetic appearance.

Regarding speakers...well, that is a whole other story. You know I love my Totem Sttaf's, and I wouldn't hesitate to go higher up the line if I could, but Martin Logan's, Viennas, Focal JM Lab, Dynaudios, Dalis, Cantons and the like are all excellent choices. Do you have the opportunity to audition any of these or other higher end speakers?

Anyway, great to hear that you're able to upgrade and I wish you much success in getting a system that suits you. I'm here to help in whatever small way I can, and I look forward to following your progress.

John

Hi John,

It's really sad (and kind of stupid on my part), but last year I had the Marantz circled on my list to buy, and then as the costs of assembling the audio room continued to escalate I decided to go with cheaper route and ended up with the Technics. (A TT that I am not unhappy with, but is better suited to the cabinet in the living room with the theater gear).

Anyway, now a year later I'm excited to be upping the ante on a vinyl spinner. I'm not completely firm on the Marantz, but it does seem to be a hard combo to beat for the money. I'm half hoping that someone comes back and points out a really good TT within my budget that I hadn't even thought of.

As far as speakers are concerned, I was really impressed with the recent article in Stereophile on the Zu Essence. I also like their 60 day in home audition policy. From all the reviews that I've read they really like tube power and are supposedly amazing sounding. I also would really like to audition a pair of the Thiel CS 2.4's. A bit pricier, but have also read many good reviews on them to. Then, of course, there's B&W.

You know, of all the choices, the one that I'll sweat the most is the speakers.

Anyway, if anything comes to mind about the TT, drop me a note.

[Johnny Vinyl]

The Thorens tables seem to making somewhat of a comeback, and they certainly have been around for a long time with a decent rep as well. They have a whole line of TT's from entry-level to serious high-end, so maybe a look at one of their offerings could be an interesting excursion. I believe AcousticSounds have most of their models available. Just a thought.

I always thought the MusicHall 9.1 was a nice table, and one I looked at as well, but I didn't research that model in great depth. It may be another option for you.

I've heard of Zu speakers and seem to remember reading an article or two on them as well. From memory it appeared they had some good things to say about their lineup.

Regarding Power Amps, and specifically tubes, you may want to give Rogue Audio a look. If everything goes well in 2010, I am seriously considering their Perseus tube preamp. Their stuff gets consistent good reviews.

[joe1515]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

That would be a table that I'd like to hear also. I'll have to do some looking in my local area to see if there are any dealers that actually have a demo on hand. I know you like your VPI Classic and I do too. Just wish it were around $600 to $700 less than it's MSRP. BTW, what are your experiences with the 10.5i arm?

I am very pleased with the arm. But I have not heard many different arms, so it's hard for me to compare against other arms. Just a thought if you like the classic maybe look on audiogon for a great deal, any you could probably work a deal with a dealer for around 2k.

Joe

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I am very pleased with the arm. But I have not heard many different arms, so it's hard for me to compare against other arms. Just a thought if you like the classic maybe look on audiogon for a great deal, any you could probably work a deal with a dealer for around 2k.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Although I love the styling of the Marantz, the more I look at your VPI Classic, the more I'm loving it's retro styling. Hypothecially speaking, if I had a budget over $2,000 - $2,500 this is a TT that I would most definitely consider. It's a Classic!

John

[airkitty]

What fun shopping for good audio gear.
TT: I have used a Thorens for a very long time and am pleased with the performance. They have some new models that seem interesting. I used to sell VPI tables and hold them in high regard (you won't be disappointed). Have you considered the Sota tables? I am not current on their offerings but they used to make a good product.
Amps: when I win the lottery the new Berning ZOTL 200W mono blocks will be hooked up to my Carolina Audio SM3s (currently being built).
Let us know what you end up with.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

Hi Rich, I did see the pics of your amps. Seems to me that those PrimaLuna's offer about the best value you could find for tubes anywhere. I guess in the best of all worlds (a world in which I don't live BTW), I would have a pair of tube Mac's, but at 3 to 4 times the price that just won't happen. Have you done any tube rolling? I understand that your amps have an autobias feature that allows for easy tube rolling. Also, are the stock tubes the PrimaLuna branded new Russian Genalex KT 88's?

I've not tried any tube rolling yet, and I don't know what the KT88s are. One day I'd like to try a set of Gold Dragon KT88s! You correct in thinking that the autobias feature will make tube rolling easier.

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by John72953

The Thorens tables seem to making somewhat of a comeback, and they certainly have been around for a long time with a decent rep as well. They have a whole line of TT's from entry-level to serious high-end, so maybe a look at one of their offerings could be an interesting excursion. I believe AcousticSounds have most of their models available. Just a thought.

I always thought the MusicHall 9.1 was a nice table, and one I looked at as well, but I didn't research that model in great depth. It may be another option for you.

I've heard of Zu speakers and seem to remember reading an article or two on them as well. From memory it appeared they had some good things to say about their lineup.

Regarding Power Amps, and specifically tubes, you may want to give Rogue Audio a look. If everything goes well in 2010, I am seriously considering their Perseus tube preamp. Their stuff gets consistent good reviews.

Hi Rich,

I've had experience with Thorens tables from back in the 70's. Good tables, but I've never been really knocked out with them. I will say that they have some very nice looking tables in their current lineup, but almost all of the really interesting looking ones are prohibitively expensive. I'm also going to do a bit more research on the Music Hall table that you suggested.

Originally Posted by joe1515

I am very pleased with the arm. But I have not heard many different arms, so it's hard for me to compare against other arms. Just a thought if you like the classic maybe look on audiogon for a great deal, any you could probably work a deal with a dealer for around 2k.

Joe

It's really sad that there are just no dealers in my area. For a while I kept thinking that I would pick up a good used one on Agon, but I'm getting gun shy on buying a used table sight unseen. I feel like finding a deal on a Scoutmaster or Classic is going to be really tough to do. If you see one though, don't hesitate to let me know. BTW, your picture gallery looks top notch. A beautiful home.

Originally Posted by airkitty

What fun shopping for good audio gear.
TT: I have used a Thorens for a very long time and am pleased with the performance. They have some new models that seem interesting. I used to sell VPI tables and hold them in high regard (you won't be disappointed). Have you considered the Sota tables? I am not current on their offerings but they used to make a good product.
Amps: when I win the lottery the new Berning ZOTL 200W mono blocks will be hooked up to my Carolina Audio SM3s (currently being built).
Let us know what you end up with.

Yeah, shopping for good audio gear gives me a rush. I haven't even considered a Sota table. Don't know anything about them. If you have any info concerning that brand please elaborate.

Originally Posted by richteer

I've not tried any tube rolling yet, and I don't know what the KT88s are. One day I'd like to try a set of Gold Dragon KT88s! You correct in thinking that the autobias feature will make tube rolling easier.

Rich,

These are the tubes I was thinking of. A remake of the original Genalex, produced in Russia. Supposedly they are top notch. Check it out. http://www.tubedepot.com/gl-kt88.html

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by John72953

...I always thought the MusicHall 9.1 was a nice table, and one I looked at as well, but I didn't research that model in great depth. It may be another option for you...

John,

I've been researching the Music Hall MMF 9.1 half the evening. It looks like a real contender here. I'm particularly curious with its Project 9cc tonearm. Stereophile has this table rated as Class B. For just a tick under $2,000 it seems like something I need to give serious consideration to. If any members here own this table please let me know your impressions.

Anyway, many thanks for bringing this table to the fore.

[FreddieFerric]

Hey John,

I found this article on the MMF 9.1 from StereoMojo. You should read it, there's something in it that you would clearly find interesting.

http://www.stereomojo.com/MusicHallM...ableReview.htm

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

Hey John,

I found this article on the MMF 9.1 from StereoMojo. You should read it, there's something in it that you would clearly find interesting.

http://www.stereomojo.com/MusicHallM...ableReview.htm

Great article Fred! Roy Hall certainly is quite the colourful character isn't he?

I was aware of his association with Revolver, and if you look at some of his earlier designs, you can quite easily see the design similarities between the Revolver and his MusicHall tables.

And as I said in my thread, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for ya buddy!

John

[FreddieFerric]

O.K., so the list is thinning now. It's either of the following 3 I think:

The Marantz TT 15S1
The Music Hall MMF 9.1
The JA Michell TecnoDec with upgraded TecnoArm

I've been in discussions with the JA Michell North American Distributor since last Friday. He is willing to offer a 15% discount and sell direct to me with free shipping and no sales tax. I've read many positive reviews about the quality of the Michell TT's and am giving a very heavy lean to this table. It would come without a cartridge, so I would still be looking at around another thousand for a really good MC cart.

The Michell TT is clearly the more expensive table of the lot with the upgraded arm. It contains 99.999% pure silver Litz wiring from the arm pins through the RCA connectors and has been reviewed as one of the better arms on the market regardless of price.

Anybody have any experience with Michell TT's? I'd like your input on this as I'm only going to get the chance to get it right one time.

[CasualKiller]

Make sure you PM me when you're ready to sell that Technics

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

O.K., so the list is thinning now. It's either of the following 3 I think:

The Marantz TT 15S1
The Music Hall MMF 9.1
The JA Michell TecnoDec with upgraded TecnoArm

I've been in discussions with the JA Michell North American Distributor since last Friday. He is willing to offer a 15% discount and sell direct to me with free shipping and no sales tax. I've read many positive reviews about the quality of the Michell TT's and am giving a very heavy lean to this table. It would come without a cartridge, so I would still be looking at around another thousand for a really good MC cart.

The Michell TT is clearly the more expensive table of the lot with the upgraded arm. It contains 99.999% pure silver Litz wiring from the arm pins through the RCA connectors and has been reviewed as one of the better arms on the market regardless of price.

Anybody have any experience with Michell TT's? I'd like your input on this as I'm only going to get the chance to get it right one time.

Damn! That is one sexy TT.

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

Make sure you PM me when you're ready to sell that Technics

You guys have busted my chops all year about my lowly Technics! It'll be moving into the main living room where it will play host to the less discerning party crowd on those odd weekends when I actually agree to have people over.

Originally Posted by louhamilton

Damn! That is one sexy TT.

thanks Lou! I don't own it yet, but will probably send the money up to the distributor in Vermont by weeks end. I'm intrigued about the upgraded arm that the Dec will come with. By all accounts its top flight.

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

thanks Lou! I don't own it yet, but will probably send the money up to the distributor in Vermont by weeks end. I'm intrigued about the upgraded arm that the Dec will come with. By all accounts its top flight.

Heck, I need to get my first TT before I can even dream of one like that. I'm just not sure what I want to set my budget at. The Rega P1 has had high scores as an entry, but do I want an entry player to pair with my B&W's or do I want to take it to another level. I will also have to build my vinyl collection, so I need to take that into consideration.

My wife already thinks I'm nuts because I'm considering a TT. I think she still thinks of vinyl like the crappy quality of the old kids Snoopy <insert child's theme here> record players.

[joe1515]

That sounds like a great deal, and looks like a sweet table. I would venture to say you can pretty comparable deals on the other tables you are looking at also.

Joe