60/120/240 Hz? - Blu-ray Forum

npanzeca · 12-28-2009, 04:23 PM

Is there that big of a difference in these 3 hz? I understand that 240 is the best but is it really worth the price difference between a 120 and a 240? For example I saw a Sony 240 that was $500 more than its 120 counterpart. Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

progers13 · 12-28-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npanzeca

Is there that big of a difference in these 3 hz? I understand that 240 is the best but is it really worth the price difference between a 120 and a 240? For example I saw a Sony 240 that was $500 more than its 120 counterpart. Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

In simple terms, hz refers to the refresh rate of the screen. 60 refreshes that many times each second, same with 120, same with 240.

mikejet · 12-28-2009, 04:36 PM

There is a difference when playing video games. You can feel a slight lag when playing online games.

npanzeca · 12-28-2009, 04:40 PM

What about TV or movies?

npanzeca · 12-28-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by progers13

In simple terms, hz refers to the refresh rate of the screen. 60 refreshes that many times each second, same with 120, same with 240.

Is 120 sufficient for a 1080 LCD?

mikejet · 12-28-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npanzeca

Is 120 sufficient for a 1080 LCD?

120 is enough to watch movies in 60p and give it that fast motion look.

progers13 · 12-28-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npanzeca

Is 120 sufficient for a 1080 LCD?

In my opinion, yes. I have a 52" Sony LCD 1080p 120hz (I keep Motionflow ON for cable, OFF for blus). I don't have any experience with 240 hz other than what I've read on here. I would stay away from 60 hz, but that's just me.

kpkelley · 12-28-2009, 04:44 PM

The value for you would be dependent upon the type of material you would tend to watch.

60hz LCDs will display 60fps, which is equal to the broadcast refresh rate, however introduces judder to 24 fps material(film).

120hz LCDs can display 60hz material by displaying each frame twice or interpolating motion from one frame to the next, so long as that option is available for the tv in question. As for 24fps material, some 120hz LCDs can play back this material at it's intended rate by playing each frame 5 times. This removes any judder that was a result of the 3:2 pulldown associated with playback at 60hz. You should check the specifications to see how a display handles 24fps material.

240hz LCDs double the 120hz resulting in additional frames for interpolation. It's believed that 3d displays may require refresh rates of at least 240hz, but that is not known at this time and none of these displays are considered 3d displays(though some may be 3d ready).

IMO, 24fps playback is important for any blu-ray viewer, so they can view the film as the filmmakers intended. However, I don't see much benefit from 240hz LCDs over 120hz as of yet. I would recommend a good 120hz may serve you better than a similarly priced 240hz model.

Best of luck.

mikejet · 12-28-2009, 04:46 PM

kpkelley said it right, my bad, I meant 24fps not 60p :P

npanzeca · 12-28-2009, 04:47 PM

kpkelley, that explained it very well. Thanks to all for your responses.

derzauberer · 12-28-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npanzeca

kpkelley, that explained it very well. Thanks to all for your responses.

Yes, he did in fact explain the differences very well but not what other people might prefer.

When I bought my 120 Hz LCD (Sony Bravia) the showroom had another Sony Bravia running at 240 Hz side by side playing the same movie (Transformers 1). I could definitely see a difference. The 240 Hz TV displayed a greater 3D effect and looked much more digital like rather than film like. The motion was smoother. Motion flow was undoubtedly set to standard or high. I'm not saying that I prefer watching movies the way the director had not intended, but if that's what you like, then 240 Hz is what you want.

kpkelley · 12-28-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derzauberer

Yes, he did in fact explain the differences very well but not what other people might prefer.

As much as I'd like to, I can't speak for anyone else.

Pelican170 · 12-28-2009, 07:41 PM

People, be sure you dont confuse HZ and Motion Flow as they are completely different from each other...

derzauberer · 12-28-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican170

People, be sure you dont confuse HZ and Motion Flow as they are completely different from each other...

Well, of course those are two different things. But it doesn't mean that motion flow doesn't factor in because it works the way it does whether you have a 120 Hz or 240 Hz Tv. So with motion flow turned on, the 240 Hz TV that I had seen next to mine did look different. I had no intention of causing confusion, only describing what I saw.

antvinman · 12-29-2009, 08:01 PM

From a personal and practical perspective, I don't even use my TV's 120hz capability. Its fine for sports (I don't miss it if I forget to turn it on), but I can't stand the motion affect it has on movies whether it be DVD, BD, or HD TV.

callas01 · 12-29-2009, 09:46 PM

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=122172

That thread has articles about the whole 60/120/240 hz debate and they show no real gain on 120 or 240 hz based TV.

Nerdkiller likes BD · 12-29-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikejet

There is a difference when playing video games. You can feel a slight lag when playing online games.

Yeah, I experience a little bit of input lag but when I'm gaming its not even noticeable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by callas01

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=122172

That thread has articles about the whole 60/120/240 hz debate and they show no real gain on 120 or 240 hz based TV.

Well I'm glad I only went for the 100hz one. I don't want to have even more input lag when I'm gaming.

derzauberer · 12-30-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antvinman

From a personal and practical perspective, I don't even use my TV's 120hz capability. Its fine for sports (I don't miss it if I forget to turn it on), but I can't stand the motion affect it has on movies whether it be DVD, BD, or HD TV.

You can't change your LCD TV's native refresh rate. It's either 60, 120 or 240 Hz (NTSB). What you turn on or off causing the motion effect and those artifacts is motion flow, motion interpolation or whatever your set calls it. With motion flow off your set is still 120 Hz if that's what yours is. It seems to be a common misconception though that one changes their set's refresh rate when motion flow is turned on and any people seem to confuse the higher fresh rate (120 or 240 Hz) with motion flow.

The real reason to get a 120 Hz or 240 Hz LED/LCD TV is to watch movies at 24p. It is advisable to leave motion flow off especially when watching 24p movies on Blu-ray. Otherwise with motion flow on it becomes motion misinterpretation and creates an awful effect making your screen look like it's displaying video instead of cinema and even looks cartoonish. That's why you prefer motion flow off and I don't blame you. I leave mine off too.

derzauberer · 12-30-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by callas01

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=122172

That thread has articles about the whole 60/120/240 hz debate and they show no real gain on 120 or 240 hz based TV.

There's no real gain with motion flow turned on. At present, LED/LCD TVs just can't display motion like a plasma TV. Motion flow is motion misinterpretation, nothing more, nothing less.

When motion flow is turned off on a 120 Hz/240 Hz LED/LCD TV, the advantage over a 60 Hz set is that these sets display true 24p whereas the 60 Hz TV can't due to the artifacts produced by 3:2 or 2:3 pull down.

Edit: Quote from the test article:

We also tested a pair of plasma sets: Pioneer’s Elite Kuro (PRO-141FD) and Panasonic’s TC-P54Z1, engaging the 60 Hz and 72 Hz modes on the Pioneer as well as the 60 Hz and 96 Hz modes on the Panasonic. Regardless of setting, neither produced the picture degrading artifacts seen on all of the 120/240Hz LCDs with ME/MC engaged. See the Panasonic’s image on the accompanying video.

Source: 120/240 Hz LCD Problems Exposed. Uploaded by exploretv. – Technology reviews and science news videos. By HD Guru Video Edited by Al Caudullo/Article Edited by Michael Fremer

npanzeca · 12-30-2009, 07:27 PM

So are we saying that 120 is better than the 60 I have without having to jump all the way to 240? I've seen those setups in places like Blockbuster where the display looks soooo smooth that it almost looks like a cartoon. At first I thought I wanted something like that but now I'm not so sure.

12-28-2009, 04:23 PM	#1
npanzeca Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Columbus, Ohio Blu-ray collection:109	60/120/240 Hz? Is there that big of a difference in these 3 hz? I understand that 240 is the best but is it really worth the price difference between a 120 and a 240? For example I saw a Sony 240 that was $500 more than its 120 counterpart. Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
Whats better? 120hz or 240?	Display Theory and Discussion	redtornado	5	11-12-2009 04:07 AM
utterly confused, with no end in sight - re 1080p/24 & 120/240 etc	LCD TVs	cneo	1	10-21-2009 06:55 PM
Sony 120 hz MotionFlow or Samsung 120 hz MotionPlus?	LCD TVs	maygit	18	04-08-2008 01:19 PM
Sony Set to Sell 120 Million (120 000 000) PlayStation 3 Consoles by 2012 – Research.	PS3	Dave	1	11-22-2006 12:23 PM

12-28-2009, 04:36 PM	#3
mikejet Banned Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Los Angeles, CA Blu-ray reviews:5 Trading Score:29	There is a difference when playing video games. You can feel a slight lag when playing online games.

12-28-2009, 04:40 PM	#4
npanzeca Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Columbus, Ohio Blu-ray collection:109	What about TV or movies?

12-28-2009, 04:44 PM	#8
kpkelley Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Framingham, MA 4K collection:385 Blu-ray collection:2478 Digital collection:113 Blu-ray reviews: 152	The value for you would be dependent upon the type of material you would tend to watch. 60hz LCDs will display 60fps, which is equal to the broadcast refresh rate, however introduces judder to 24 fps material(film). 120hz LCDs can display 60hz material by displaying each frame twice or interpolating motion from one frame to the next, so long as that option is available for the tv in question. As for 24fps material, some 120hz LCDs can play back this material at it's intended rate by playing each frame 5 times. This removes any judder that was a result of the 3:2 pulldown associated with playback at 60hz. You should check the specifications to see how a display handles 24fps material. 240hz LCDs double the 120hz resulting in additional frames for interpolation. It's believed that 3d displays may require refresh rates of at least 240hz, but that is not known at this time and none of these displays are considered 3d displays(though some may be 3d ready). IMO, 24fps playback is important for any blu-ray viewer, so they can view the film as the filmmakers intended. However, I don't see much benefit from 240hz LCDs over 120hz as of yet. I would recommend a good 120hz may serve you better than a similarly priced 240hz model. Best of luck.

12-28-2009, 04:46 PM	#9
mikejet Banned Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Los Angeles, CA Blu-ray reviews:5 Trading Score:29	kpkelley said it right, my bad, I meant 24fps not 60p :P

12-28-2009, 04:47 PM	#10
npanzeca Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Columbus, Ohio Blu-ray collection:109	kpkelley, that explained it very well. Thanks to all for your responses.

12-28-2009, 07:41 PM	#13
Pelican170 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Newtown, CT 4K collection:127 Blu-ray collection:735 DVD collection:256 Trading Score:13	People, be sure you dont confuse HZ and Motion Flow as they are completely different from each other...

12-29-2009, 08:01 PM	#15
antvinman Junior Member Member since:Dec 2009 Location:Dallas, TX Blu-ray collection:19	From a personal and practical perspective, I don't even use my TV's 120hz capability. Its fine for sports (I don't miss it if I forget to turn it on), but I can't stand the motion affect it has on movies whether it be DVD, BD, or HD TV.

12-29-2009, 09:46 PM	#16
callas01 Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Riverside, CA Home Theater Gallery:42 Blu-ray collection:230 DVD collection:47	https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=122172 That thread has articles about the whole 60/120/240 hz debate and they show no real gain on 120 or 240 hz based TV.

12-30-2009, 07:27 PM	#20
npanzeca Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Columbus, Ohio Blu-ray collection:109	So are we saying that 120 is better than the 60 I have without having to jump all the way to 240? I've seen those setups in places like Blockbuster where the display looks soooo smooth that it almost looks like a cartoon. At first I thought I wanted something like that but now I'm not so sure.

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals