Time for trophies to evolve?

[Snake_XRS]

It's been a year since trophies have been mandated, and they have been a smashing success story for Sony in their implementation, layout, and RPG-like leveling system. Whether they were implemented solely for the purpose of countering achievements is irrelevant IMO, as I believe the total "trophy system" is different enough to be its own beast.

Now that they're here, I think it's time that trophies began evolving in a way to differentiate themselves even more from simple acheivements, and Sony develop some sort of system where trophies are rewarded. I'm not talking about a virtual wall or shrine in Home, but more of a total system that would go something like this:

Games would obviously be classed by genre, so someone who had several plats in FPS games, would get first invites at FPS betas, demos, exclusive skins, etc.

Also, trophies would have some sort of PSN value, and can be redeemed for downloads off of PSN network. You could then purchase PSN games, add-ons, premium wallpapers/avatars, etc. based off your trophy value.

This could be a very solid start. Any other ideas could be implemented and added from this foundation later as well. I know some people that aren't considered trophy-hunters or don't care much to get them may feel this is unfair, but I think it would really be smart if Sony pushed this idea. Not only would people be playing their games longer (adding value to their purchase), now they would have an actual reason to invest in getting that extra trophy outside of "just getting it".

[lettucenpico]

I never really understood the whole point of Trophies..

[Rike255]

I really like the classifying idea. Show what kind of gamer each person is based on the games they own/complete/etc. I doubt the PSN store credits will fly though.

Originally Posted by lettucenpico

I never really understood the whole point of Trophies..

Never understood the point, or you personally don't care? I see posts like this a lot, seems odd to me that you don't understand why people like trophies even if you yourself don't.

[lettucenpico]

I guess I just don't care for it. I like seeing that I earn trophies. But what's it really used for?

[Snake_XRS]

Originally Posted by lettucenpico

I never really understood the whole point of Trophies..

You are a prime example of why this trophy evolution is needed. It would assign a value to the total amount of trophies you have earned and allow you to redeem that for purchases off of PSN. It would give people who are indifferent about getting trophies an actual financial reason to go for them.

Remember, Sony is fighting cable tv, dish network, movie theaters, restaurants, and everybody else for your "evening hours". If trophies are the way to do it, it's to their advantage in the end.

Not to mention, this would be seen as another advantage to buy the PS3 version of multi-platform games.

[jono_0101]

Originally Posted by lettucenpico

I guess I just don't care for it. I like seeing that I earn trophies. But what's it really used for?

at this point, all they are used for is to compare with friends on PSN, but i like the ideas that snake pointed out, id also add that they could do a kind of cross marketing with Home to get more people in there and to get more people that hang out there more involved in hunting trophies by making specific areas of Home restricted to people who are X trophy level or higher, complete with more free stuff in home and other activities, i guess they could even use that as a delivery system for the inviting people to sign up for betas like snake was talking about too, i think that would really jump start both Home use and trophy hunting

[McGarnigal]

I think you should get a physical trophy in a display case for every platinum or real signifiacant trophy you earn for your apartment in Home.

[BlackMamba]

snake, I don't really think there are any substantial differences between trophies and achievements like you suggest. If anything, the trophy system is a slightly stripped down version of achievements because the latter already offers variations of what you suggest the former should adopt.

I like your ideas for upgrading the system from a consumer standpoint, but I take issue with them from a business standpoint.

- What does Sony stand to gain financially from this? People will be more focused on one game meaning less software sales (which are important because console manufacturers are producing hardware at a loss). People will be getting additional content for free as opposed to paying for it so there's loss of sales there. Basically you're hoping to generate brand loyalty at the expense of revenue generation which is risky when the market is pretty much set and most people have already committed to a system (I would be okay with this a couple years ago, but not now).

[Snake_XRS]

Originally Posted by BlackMamba

snake, I don't really think there are any substantial differences between trophies and achievements like you suggest.

I wasn't saying that there currently are differences, as they are pretty much identical now. I was saying that these are steps Sony can do to differentiate themselves in a big way from achievements. Especially in the arena of multi-platform titles in which a consumer who has both machines, it would be a pretty nice advantage for Sony.

[BlackMamba]

Originally Posted by Snake_XRS

I wasn't saying that there currently are differences, as they are pretty much identical now. I was saying that these are steps Sony can do to differentiate themselves in a big way from achievements. Especially in the arena of multi-platform titles in which a consumer who has both machines, it would be a pretty nice advantage for Sony.

oh okay, I get what you're saying now and agree Sony needs to do something to differentiate themselves from MS in a meaningful way. However, as I mentioned before (I added some more comments to my post above) it may be difficult at this stage and potentially not worth it.

[Darkhawk9587]

I like your ideas. It would be cool if obtaining trophies actually benefited players aside from bragging rights. If they had some intrinsic value for the PSN Store, that would be pretty cool. I don't know about a lot of you, but I stay away from paying for DLC. I never understood why I needed to pay for extra content after already spending a bunch of money on the game.

[Rike255]

Originally Posted by BlackMamba

- What does Sony stand to gain financially from this? People will be more focused on one game meaning less software sales. People will be getting additional content for free as opposed to paying for it so there's loss of sales there. Basically you're hoping to generate brand loyalty at the expense of revenue generation which is risky when the market is pretty much set and most people have already committed to a system (I would be okay with this a couple years ago, but not now).

Well actually, if you consider that this system could work the same way as rewards points from memberships at any typical department store it would actually generate more business.

Basically if trophies were redeemable you would need to buy more content in order to get anything for free, similar to a department store where they set some kind of arbitrary point system (ie: earn 10 points for every $1 spent, 25,000 points to get $25 in store product for free or something). Basically putting in a system like that becomes incentive for someone to shop at your store instead of elsewhere. If trophies did this, people would be drawn to buy games for the PS3 instead of other systems because they get the feeling they receive something back for their purchase of an otherwise identical product.

Obviously it would require a large number of trophies in order to accumulate enough points for a purchase. Usually there's a very low return on investment from these points. The store I used to work at gave basically 1% of every $1 back using these Rewards Points. It was a great deal for the store considering it drew people to buy their products instead of going elsewhere.

[Snake_XRS]

Originally Posted by BlackMamba

What does Sony stand to gain financially from this? People will be more focused on one game meaning less software sales. People will be getting additional content for free as opposed to paying for it so there's loss of sales there. Basically you're hoping to generate brand loyalty at the expense of revenue generation which is risky when the market is pretty much set and most people have already committed to a system (I would be okay with this a couple years ago, but not now).

Yes people would be more focused on a specific game, but that doesn't automatically equate to more or less sales. The average consumer isn't going to be immediately buying game after game, so the sales loss idea may be exaggerated.

As far as giving away content, companies do that all the time, as an incentive to the customer. Also, it can be special content, something not unlike skins given away to people who pre-order games or specially made skins solely for this purpose. An example of this would be ND making a special skin available to download from PSN for people who have a plat in Uncharted 1, useable in Uncharted 2.

Also, I don't think most people have committed to a system, otherwise hardware sales would be very low or non-existent. The market is still ripe, and this would be a great opportunity for Sony to seize. They would definitely have to market this, as someone unfamiliar with trophies/achievements wouldn't be knowledgeable enough to make this decision prior to their purchase. Not impossible, but a hurdle I guess.

You do bring up some good points though.

[DezNutz]

There are some of what you are talking about, but again Sony leaves it up to individual game developers. Prime example in Uncharted 2 if you platinumed uncharted 1 you where rewared with in game point redeemable for many unlocks in Uncharted 2.. I see many other sequel like games going with this.

[Septimus Prime]

Honestly, I would be pissed if they restricted access to content for people with a certain amount of trophies. I mean, I like trophies and all, and I have a pretty good amount of them, but not everyone has the time or interest to pursue these things, and they should not be punished for choosing not to amass trophies.

I like that trophies mean nothing at the end of the day. They're just nice to have and to show off, but that should be it.

[Mouse]

This will never happen and let me tell you why. Your whole system is built around the idea that everyone is a hardcore gamer and/or good at games. I like to think of myself as more than a casual gamer but less than hardcore simply because I'm not very good at many games. Giving extra benefits to solely those that are good at games (or have the time to invest highly in them) will cause a rift between the different types of gamers and split the market base. It's called discrimination and I don't see Sony going this route.

Other the other hand, I personally think if you modified your system a little to include everyone it may work. Such as having some DLC free to those that can get the trophies and for a small cost to others. That way everyone can enjoy all the content.

[Rike255]

Originally Posted by Mouse

This will never happen and let me tell you why. Your whole system is built around the idea that everyone is a hardcore gamer and/or good at games. I like to think of myself as more than a casual gamer but less than hardcore simply because I'm not very good at many games. Giving extra benefits to solely those that are good at games (or have the time to invest highly in them) will cause a rift between the different types of gamers and split the market base. It's called discrimination and I don't see Sony going this route.

Other the other hand, I personally think if you modified your system a little to include everyone it may work. Such as having some DLC free to those that can get the trophies and for a small cost to others. That way everyone can enjoy all the content.

Not sure which part of his system you're referring to, but when has the casual gamer cared about beta testing? In fact, exclusive beta testing for hardcore gamers only would be beneficial for the developers who setup the beta. All too often a beta test is used by many as a "demo" for no other reason than for them to see if they're interested. The point of a beta test is to find flaws/suggest improvements in a game. Arguably those who are devoted to gaming will be more helpful in the process. I'd argue that making betas exclusive to those who "earned" it (not just signed up on a website) would only add to the value.
Exclusive demos/DLC would obviously never happen as no company wants to limit the number of people who have access to them.
Cash value for trophies is also a non-issue in terms of segregation although this will almost certainly never happen anyways imo.

[Mouse]

Oh, I have no problem about beta testing going to those that have proven to be able to get trophies as I would want good gamers testing my product as well. I was more so refering to exclusive content like DLC/Add-ons.

[Rike255]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Oh, I have no problem about beta testing going to those that have proven to be able to get trophies as I would want good gamers testing my product as well. I was more so refering to exclusive content like DLC/Add-ons.

In that case I agree . Don't worry though because, like I said before, a game publisher would never purposefully limit the number of potential buyers of DLC/demos (without getting a large "incentive" from certain system makers )

[Septimus Prime]

Actually, testing with an assorted group of gamers with a wide array of skill levels is best because there are very often things only bad players would pick up. It's also a lot more about communication and reporting than it is just playing, and how good you are at games has no bearing on either of these things.