Digital grain on Paramount discs ? - Blu-ray Forum

Lincoln6Echo · 01-31-2010, 03:43 PM

Not sure where to post this, but I'll try here.

Anyway, I was wondering what the deal is with Paramount's and even on some 20th Century Fox discs, that they have an extraordinary amount of digital grain in their transfers. Titles like Star Trek, Transformers 1 & 2, and so forth..

I'm running into display problems where I'm getting vertical scan lines running through my picture during scenes with heavy grain. I have a Oppo BDP-83 and about the only way to get the reference quality picture that these discs are supposedly supposed to have is to cut the detail and edge enhancements down to 0 and boost the DNR up to nearly 7. The problem has seemed to have gotten worse lately. I'm wondering if it isn't my 2.5 year old Sharp AQUOS. I even played around with the TV's sharpness and DNR settings as I was watching Star Trek last night.

Also what should I set the de-interlacing mode to on my Oppo? Auto, Film Mode, or Vidoe mode?

Dotpattern · 01-31-2010, 03:51 PM

Star Trek and Transformers 1 and 2 were all shot on film, so there is no digital grain - only the natural film grain inherent with shooting on film.

Is your tv calibrated? More immediately, is your Sharpness set any higher than zero? If so, turn it down to zero, or even less. Sharpness is not needed for HD content and will only serve to enhance any film grain present.

fdm · 01-31-2010, 04:14 PM

What Dotpattern said. Also turn off all the other gimmickery to "enhance" the picture and check out one of the calibration discs (e.g., Digital Video Essentials). Also use Movie mode (or equivalent). Most TV sets out of the box look like sh*t and just about everything will appear overly grainy until you set the TV up right. (Also up front turn down the Contrast setting, that's at least half your problem right there, most likely.)

Russell_L · 01-31-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lincoln6Echo

Not sure where to post this, but I'll try here.

Anyway, I was wondering what the deal is with Paramount's and even on some 20th Century Fox discs, that they have an extraordinary amount of digital grain in their transfers. Titles like Star Trek, Transformers 1 & 2, and so forth..

I'm running into display problems where I'm getting vertical scan lines running through my picture during scenes with heavy grain. I have a Oppo BDP-83 and about the only way to get the reference quality picture that these discs are supposedly supposed to have is to cut the detail and edge enhancements down to 0 and boost the DNR up to nearly 7. The problem has seemed to have gotten worse lately. I'm wondering if it isn't my 2.5 year old Sharp AQUOS. I even played around with the TV's sharpness and DNR settings as I was watching Star Trek last night.

Also what should I set the de-interlacing mode to on my Oppo? Auto, Film Mode, or Vidoe mode?

As a general rule, these sorts of picture "enhancement" settings should always be OFF or at least turned down to their minimum levels.

GGX · 01-31-2010, 04:36 PM

DNR is not a good thing and film grain is not a bad thing.

Jsheth · 01-31-2010, 04:38 PM

I didnt notice any grain of TF2

BluBonnet · 01-31-2010, 04:42 PM

"supposedly supposed to have"?

42041 · 01-31-2010, 05:06 PM

It's not "digital grain", it's film grain. Sounds like you've got some serious setting misconfiguration in your setup.

BladeRunner2007 · 01-31-2010, 05:18 PM

- Movie mode
- DNR OFF
- MPEG noise reduction OFF
- Set sharpness to 0

problem solved

42041 · 01-31-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

- Movie mode
- DNR OFF
- MPEG noise reduction OFF
- Set sharpness to 0

problem solved

moreover, make sure your player is not contributing any unnecessary "enhancements" and that your TV is not overscanning.

Irrob · 01-31-2010, 05:26 PM

If it's getting worse, I think your TV is broken.

STARSCREAM · 01-31-2010, 06:51 PM

It's either your tv failing or some setting messing it up because both Transformers movies and Star Trek all have awesome PQ.

BladeRunner2007 · 01-31-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42041

[...] make sure [...] that your TV is not overscanning.

What can I do to change this?

Lincoln6Echo · 01-31-2010, 11:13 PM

Hmm...I thought I posted a response earlier, but I guess I forgot to hit Post Quick Reply.

Anyway, yeah, I had forgotten, that when I first went Blu-ray early last Fall, I had my DVD input Picture setting set to Movie Mode, but recently changed it about a month or so ago to Dynamic which automatically introduces several internal picture enhancement features. This is what is causing the excessive grain and vertical scan line artifacts. Put it back on Movie Mode and it smoothes everything out nicely with just that fine level of film grain that's supposed to be there.

jtwise · 01-31-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGX

DNR is not a good thing and film grain is not a bad thing.

Couldn't have said it better

GGX · 02-01-2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lincoln6Echo

This is what is causing the excessive grain and vertical scan line artifacts

The word you are looking for is "noise". Grain is just that: film grain.

Lincoln6Echo · 02-01-2010, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGX

The word you are looking for is "noise". Grain is just that: film grain.

OK...noise, then. Noise..Smoise...

Ya know...'noise'...that's one of those English words to describe a common thing that looks foreign when spelled out and said repeatedly.

01-31-2010, 03:43 PM	#1
Lincoln6Echo Special Member Top contributor Member since:Sep 2009 Home Theater Gallery:4 4K collection:312 Blu-ray collection:1517 DVD collection:8 Blu-ray reviews: 25	Digital grain on Paramount discs ? Not sure where to post this, but I'll try here. Anyway, I was wondering what the deal is with Paramount's and even on some 20th Century Fox discs, that they have an extraordinary amount of digital grain in their transfers. Titles like Star Trek, Transformers 1 & 2, and so forth.. I'm running into display problems where I'm getting vertical scan lines running through my picture during scenes with heavy grain. I have a Oppo BDP-83 and about the only way to get the reference quality picture that these discs are supposedly supposed to have is to cut the detail and edge enhancements down to 0 and boost the DNR up to nearly 7. The problem has seemed to have gotten worse lately. I'm wondering if it isn't my 2.5 year old Sharp AQUOS. I even played around with the TV's sharpness and DNR settings as I was watching Star Trek last night. Also what should I set the de-interlacing mode to on my Oppo? Auto, Film Mode, or Vidoe mode?

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01-31-2010, 03:51 PM	#2
Dotpattern Blu-ray Guru Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Southern California 4K collection:407 Blu-ray collection:1512	Star Trek and Transformers 1 and 2 were all shot on film, so there is no digital grain - only the natural film grain inherent with shooting on film. Is your tv calibrated? More immediately, is your Sharpness set any higher than zero? If so, turn it down to zero, or even less. Sharpness is not needed for HD content and will only serve to enhance any film grain present.

01-31-2010, 04:14 PM	#3
fdm Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Nov 2007 Location:Way Out West 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Digital collection:- iTunes collection:- Prime collection:- Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:3	What Dotpattern said. Also turn off all the other gimmickery to "enhance" the picture and check out one of the calibration discs (e.g., Digital Video Essentials). Also use Movie mode (or equivalent). Most TV sets out of the box look like sh*t and just about everything will appear overly grainy until you set the TV up right. (Also up front turn down the Contrast setting, that's at least half your problem right there, most likely.)

01-31-2010, 04:36 PM	#5
GGX Banned Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Kentwood, Michigan Blu-ray collection:262 Trading Score:2	DNR is not a good thing and film grain is not a bad thing.

01-31-2010, 04:38 PM	#6
Jsheth Active Member Member since:Dec 2008	I didnt notice any grain of TF2

01-31-2010, 04:42 PM	#7
BluBonnet Blu-ray King Top contributor Member since:Oct 2009 Trading Score:1	"supposedly supposed to have"?

01-31-2010, 05:06 PM	#8
42041 Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2008	It's not "digital grain", it's film grain. Sounds like you've got some serious setting misconfiguration in your setup.

01-31-2010, 05:18 PM	#9
BladeRunner2007 Blu-ray Count Top contributor Member since:Oct 2009 Location:Germany 4K collection:58 Blu-ray collection:1031 Blu-ray reviews:3	- Movie mode - DNR OFF - MPEG noise reduction OFF - Set sharpness to 0 problem solved

01-31-2010, 05:26 PM	#11
Irrob Blu-ray Guru Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:USA Home Theater Gallery:49 4K collection:61 Blu-ray collection:880 DVD collection:16 Blu-ray reviews: 4 Trading Score:91	If it's getting worse, I think your TV is broken.

01-31-2010, 06:51 PM	#12
STARSCREAM Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Feb 2008 Location:Dagobah Blu-ray collection:148 Trading Score:67	It's either your tv failing or some setting messing it up because both Transformers movies and Star Trek all have awesome PQ.

01-31-2010, 11:13 PM	#14
Lincoln6Echo Special Member Top contributor Member since:Sep 2009 Home Theater Gallery:4 4K collection:312 Blu-ray collection:1517 DVD collection:8 Blu-ray reviews: 25	Hmm...I thought I posted a response earlier, but I guess I forgot to hit Post Quick Reply. Anyway, yeah, I had forgotten, that when I first went Blu-ray early last Fall, I had my DVD input Picture setting set to Movie Mode, but recently changed it about a month or so ago to Dynamic which automatically introduces several internal picture enhancement features. This is what is causing the excessive grain and vertical scan line artifacts. Put it back on Movie Mode and it smoothes everything out nicely with just that fine level of film grain that's supposed to be there.

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