Thinking about upgrading...

[volcomsocal]

I own a 5 year old Sony HTiB (HT-DDW670) that works just fine without any problems. It's connected to my 80GB PS3. The problem is, the receiver doesn't decode high-def sound (no hdmi). I was thinking about upgrading just my receiver so that way I can get high-def sound when watching blu's. Is it ok to connect a more powerful receiver to my current surround sound speakers? Can my speakers handle a more powerful receiver? The receiver that came with my HTiB is STR-K670P that pushes 100 watts to each speaker.

I'm looking to spend no more than $600 for a receiver. Are there a few specific receivers out there that always get rave reviews? I know Onkyo makes great products. Any help would be appreciated.

[rlf3911]

You dont need to spend $600 on a receiver. Pick up a new Onkyo 607 ($415 on amazon right now). Spend whatever money you have left on getting a bad ass front sound stage (Front Left, Center, Front Right) speakers. I like my Polks, but there are tons of good brands out there, listen to as many as possible and buy what YOU like.

[kpkelley]

You need to make sure that the receiver will support whatever the speaker impedance is(I couldn't find this online, should look in your manual or ask Sony).

Pioneer recently announced their new line of HT receivers coming out in April. The VSX-520($229) and VSX-820($299) are both 5.1 channel recievers that are hdmi 1.4(3D compliant) and capable of accepting audio over hdmi and decoding the hd audio codecs.

[callas01]

the speakers that come with that unit are 6 ohms and so most receivers should power them just fine. I would look at the newer receivers that have the HDMI 1.4 spec just so you don't have to upgrade anytime soon again....

[volcomsocal]

I don't know anything about ohms, so is having speakers that are 6 ohms the norm? And how do 6 ohms relate to a certain receiver? For example, the receiver I currently have vs. a better, more powerful receiver.

[callas01]

6-8 ohms is pretty normal, 4 ohm speakers are fairly common also, but its the impedance level of the speaker, and the lower the nominal ohm rating of the speaker the harder it is for the receiver to driver the speakers efficiently. More strain on the receiver and you are liable to damage your receiver.

I will be honest and say that I don't know how big of a difference you will notice with lossless/HD audio because the speaker you are looking at using cannot be very good, or detailed and so I don't know if you will hear a big difference. JMO.

[volcomsocal]

Ok, so my HTiB speakers are probably not up to the task of delivering a true HD audio experience? I've read on here about people dogging on HTiB systems and their sub-par speakers. The HTiB that I've had for 5 years is pretty impressive for what it is and has pretty damn good sound. Is it possible that I really won't hear a difference if I bought a new receiver? I understand that my speakers aren't going to be as good as a new set of separates. But does anyone here have any experience with hooking up a good ($400-$500) receiver to an existing HTiB setup?

I can't buy a new receiver AND a new set of speakers right now, so I thought that by just upgrading the receiver would make a notable difference, for now.

cnet.com rated these receivers as their highest rated mid-level receivers:

Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K
Onkyo TX-SR607
Onkyo HT-RC160
Denon AVR-1910

Any opinions?

[volcomsocal]

Originally Posted by callas01

I would look at the newer receivers that have the HDMI 1.4 spec just so you don't have to upgrade anytime soon again....

Besides Pioneer's new HDMI 1.4 receivers coming out in April, are there any other brands out there that already have 1.4? Or do I have to wait till later this year to find receivers with HDMI 1.4?

[callas01]

You should see a lot of new receivers by april or may and I would guess that they should almost all have the 1.4 spec for HDMI.

I would suggest if you cannot get both a new receiver and speakers, then pick one and get that first, Personally, I would get the receiver and then save for nice speakers.

[BIslander]

If I may...

Even with good speakers, it's debatable whether you will get much, if any, improvement from lossless. The lossy codecs (DD 5.1 and DTS) are encoded at very high bitrates on Blu-ray and they sound great. You get better sound than DVD even without lossless.

Of course, if you are looking for a reason to upgrade your AVR...

[volcomsocal]

Originally Posted by callas01

You should see a lot of new receivers by april or may and I would guess that they should almost all have the 1.4 spec for HDMI.

I would suggest if you cannot get both a new receiver and speakers, then pick one and get that first, Personally, I would get the receiver and then save for nice speakers.

I'm looking to get a new receiver first. Then maybe down the road upgrade my speakers, starting with the center channel.

Ok, so it looks like I'll wait a few more months to get a receiver with HDMI 1.4 because it makes no sense to buy one with 1.3. Thanks for the heads up.

[volcomsocal]

Originally Posted by BIslander

If I may...

Even with good speakers, it's debatable whether you will get much, if any, improvement from lossless. The lossy codecs (DD 5.1 and DTS) are encoded at very high bitrates on Blu-ray and they sound great. You get better sound than DVD even without lossless.

Of course, if you are looking for a reason to upgrade your AVR...

So are you saying that spending money on a new receiver so I can get DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD is a waste because I won't be able to hear any difference over DD and DTS?

[browndk26]

Originally Posted by volcomsocal

So are you saying that spending money on a new receiver so I can get DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD is a waste because I won't be able to hear any difference over DD and DTS?

Instead of a new AVR, buy better speakers. I did that based on the advice of these forums. The sound improvement was tremendous. The more knowledgable members here could guide you to the better speaker brands to fit your budget.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by volcomsocal

So are you saying that spending money on a new receiver so I can get DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD is a waste because I won't be able to hear any difference over DD and DTS?

Not my words, but, yes, that's the basic idea.

On DVD, DD 5.1 is usually encoded at 354 kbps and DTS at 754.
On Blu-ray, when you play a lossless track over optical, you get a DD 5.1 output at 640 and DTS at 1509.

That's a big difference. Many say the high bitrate lossy outputs rival lossless. But, since you're in no hurry, you have time to check this out yourself. Try a friend or an AV shop where you can compare lossless with the higher bitrate lossy versions on Blu-ray and decide for yourself.

Also, I agree that it would be better to upgrade your speakers.

[volcomsocal]

Originally Posted by browndk26

Instead of a new AVR, buy better speakers. I did that based on the advice of these forums. The sound improvement was tremendous. The more knowledgable members here could guide you to the better speaker brands to fit your budget.

Ok, I'll go with that route and see where I can get. Thanks.

[volcomsocal]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Not my words, but, yes, that's the basic idea.

On DVD, DD 5.1 is usually encoded at 354 kbps and DTS at 754.
On Blu-ray, when you play a lossless track over optical, you get a DD 5.1 output at 640 and DTS at 1509.

That's a big difference. Many say the high bitrate lossy outputs rival lossless. But, since you're in no hurry, you have time to check this out yourself. Try a friend or an AV shop where you can compare lossless with the higher bitrate lossy versions on Blu-ray and decide for yourself.

Also, I agree that it would be better to upgrade your speakers.

Wait, when you said "On Blu-ray, when you play a lossless track over optical, you get a DD 5.1 output at 640 and DTS at 1509." If I am listening to a lossless track on Blu-ray through optical, wouldn't it ultimately be lossy, because of the fact that I'm using optical and not HDMI?

In any case, very insightful info. I just started a thread in the speaker section of the audio forum, so I'll see where I can get. Thanks.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by volcomsocal

Wait, when you said "On Blu-ray, when you play a lossless track over optical, you get a DD 5.1 output at 640 and DTS at 1509." If I am listening to a lossless track on Blu-ray through optical, wouldn't it ultimately be lossy, because of the fact that I'm using optical and not HDMI?

Yes, both DD 5.1 and DTS are lossy codecs. Blu-ray players are backwards compatible with older equipment and interfaces. Since optical doesn't support lossless, the player sends lossy versions instead. But, they are better lossy versions than you get on DVD.

[volcomsocal]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Yes, both DD 5.1 and DTS are lossy codecs. Blu-ray players are backwards compatible with older equipment and interfaces. Since optical doesn't support lossless, the player sends lossy versions instead. But, they are better lossy versions than you get on DVD.

Ok, I understand that. And so what you were saying earlier... some people say that high bitrate lossy over optical could be better than lossless over hdmi? Seems kinda crazy.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by volcomsocal

Wait, when you said "On Blu-ray, when you play a lossless track over optical, you get a DD 5.1 output at 640 and DTS at 1509." If I am listening to a lossless track on Blu-ray through optical, wouldn't it ultimately be lossy, because of the fact that I'm using optical and not HDMI?

Dolby Digital, and DTS surround use perceptual lossy compression techniques to throw away the least significant bits of the audio input. Theoretically, they represent detail that is impossible to hear, or at least difficult to hear. Unfortunately, a lossy codec compresses content such that the result, when decompressed, is not exactly the same as the original master, but may be very difficult to hear the difference with our imperfect ears and equipment.

Unlike perceptual lossy data reduction, a lossless codec compresses the data without losing any of it when it is decompressed. The result, when decompressed, is exactly the same as the original, with no compromises.

Originally Posted by volcomsocal

Ok, I understand that. And so what you were saying earlier... some people say that high bitrate lossy over optical could be better than lossless over hdmi? Seems kinda crazy.

It is possible for some movies that are produced with high quality DD and DTS to sound better than poorly done movies with LPCM, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD MA. It depends on the source and how the sound is mixed by the sound engineer.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by volcomsocal

Ok, I understand that. And so what you were saying earlier... some people say that high bitrate lossy over optical could be better than lossless over hdmi? Seems kinda crazy.

No, I didn't say lossy is better than lossless. I said: " Many say the high bitrate lossy outputs rival lossless." In other words, you may find the optical output you are getting now will sound about as good as lossless over HDMI. For the most part, both are better than the audio on DVDs.