Good Menus/Bad Menus - Blu-ray Forum

WickyWoo · 08-19-2007, 02:32 AM

A friend of mine has authored many of your favorite titles over the years (no I can't say which as who knows might see this, major studio titles, anime, large and small he's done it), and he's about to move into Blu/HD authoring.

As you might figure, the rules of menu design and interactivity are greatly different than they are on DVD, and he's like to know what your favorite and least favorite menus are and why.

What makes it intuitive or hard to use? How about placement on the screen? Is less more?

He'll probably get to work on some great titles in the future, so please be as specific as possible. Thanks all!

Blu-dock Saint · 08-19-2007, 03:15 AM

Hmm I've never really thought about this before, I like menu's that pop up from the bottom, that way they're really not in the way of the movie. Nothing complex, keep it simple such as POTC's menu's. I wouldnt mind if more movies do what warner does and just have the movie start and you can have a pop up menu during the movie. Call me crazy but I like to get into the movie as quick as I can.

Xen · 08-19-2007, 04:08 AM

Sometimes, I buy a movie I haven't seen for 5 years. I don't want to watch it from the beginning right away, I want to jump to an old scene that I really liked, or a scene that I think of as demo material.

However, a frustrating feature on Blu-ray movies that DVD did not have was chapter titles. I cannot always remember what is going on in a movie by one small frame on the screen. If the clips won't be 5 second clips (which would be nice) then please, just a couple words to identify the moment.

Other than that, no comment. For now.

Petra_Kalbrain · 08-19-2007, 05:05 AM

As a Blu-ray reviewer, this topic is one of my biggest pet peeves about the format (next to MPEG-2 encoding). Here is my take on what, in my mind, would be the ideal scenario for menu system authoring. In fact, based on the following criteria, Warner Bros. titles have been losing at least 1 full point of overall rating on all of their titles reviewed by myself. So, if your friend works for Warner Bros. PLEASE PASS THESE ALONG!!!

#1. Film begins immediately without stopping at a "Main Menu" screen.
#2. The menu transitioning should flow (menus fading/sliding into and out of view)
#3. DO NOT USE AN 'X' OPTION FOR CLOSING MENUS... pressing down on the remote at the bottom of the list should be enough.
#4. Creatively integrate the menu design with the atmosphere of the film (see The Prestige, A Knight's Tale, The Guardian as good examples of this)
#5. Although the film should start automatically without a "Main Menu" screen, there should still be one accessible via the playback menu bar. And that screen should still be given the attention to include a score sample, still images, clips, and fluidity. Make it part of the movie experience.

That's my ideal scenario for menu design. Any agreements/disagreements?

It's funny you asked this because the owner of the website I review for and myself were discussing it the other day. He doesn't like the integration of menu design, but I find that when a menu pops up (especially during playback of a movie) it should maintain the design of the production. Instead, most of the time, these big blocks are sharply popping in and out and are all poorly coloured (or worse, TEXTURED WITH A LAME SKIN). This subconsciously forces me out of the frame of mind I had while watching the film, which means more work to get back into the film when I'm done with the menu.

Shin-Ra · 08-19-2007, 05:25 AM

I prefer it if there's no SFX at all on the menu transitions or buttons. It sounds bad on a pop-up menu over the movie and seems unpolished when you're flicking through menus quickly and successive sound effects don't play because the previous sound hasn't finished playing yet.

Petra_Kalbrain · 08-19-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

I prefer it if there's no SFX at all on the menu transitions or buttons. It sounds bad on a pop-up menu over the movie and seems unpolished when you're flicking through menus quickly and successive sound effects don't play because the previous sound hasn't finished playing yet.

Good point. The excessive beeping and swishing gets annoying too. I can see where it was a good idea in theory, but in practice it just serves to draw away from the movie experience.

Zarathustra · 08-19-2007, 02:59 PM

I'm anti-swooshing and in agreement with Petra

Mulder · 08-19-2007, 03:45 PM

I don't like it when the film starts without first going to the menu. What if you want to change the sound options? Now you're missing the start of the movie because you're messing with the menu. Rather go to the menu first, let us sort out our options and then we can press play when we're ready.

Chad Varnadore · 08-19-2007, 08:35 PM

Personally, I hate it when a disc doesn't detour to a main menu first. Consistent with DVD, BDs almost always default to the lowest quality sound format available on the disc. I much prefer to setup screen and sound options before the movie starts playing rather than during, which was a pet peeve of mine of Disney's early BDs.

As for button sounds, I like them with main menus, if they either sound cool or aren't overbearing in volume. But I agree that they're unnecessarily distracting, if not annoying with pop-up menus.

I think Sony is doing some of the best menu designs today. Disney, Paramount, and Fox are doing a nice job too. Assuming Warner hasn't changed their recipe, it's been awhile since I've watched a BD from Warner, I've typically found their menus unimaginitive, unattractive, and too restrictive. Universal's are friendlier to use and more thorough than Warners, but they too are unsympathetically unimaginitive, regurgitations of the same design with different backgrounds, if that.

Petra_Kalbrain · 08-19-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulder

I don't like it when the film starts without first going to the menu. What if you want to change the sound options? Now you're missing the start of the movie because you're messing with the menu. Rather go to the menu first, let us sort out our options and then we can press play when we're ready.

But, in all honesty, if you are going to spend the time changing the option (a whole 10 seconds... IF THAT) why not do it during the appearance of the distribution company logo? The movie never starts right off the first second of playback. I've got the audio change maneouver down to 5 seconds myself and I haven't missed a beat of any film I've watched in Hi-Def yet (and that's over 90 titles!).

WickyWoo · 08-19-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

As a Blu-ray reviewer, this topic is one of my biggest pet peeves about the format (next to MPEG-2 encoding). Here is my take on what, in my mind, would be the ideal scenario for menu system authoring. In fact, based on the following criteria, Warner Bros. titles have been losing at least 1 full point of overall rating on all of their titles reviewed by myself. So, if your friend works for Warner Bros. PLEASE PASS THESE ALONG!!!

He works for an independant authoring house, Warner still does virtually all their authoring through WAMO, whatever it's called now since they sold it.

Petra_Kalbrain · 08-19-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

He works for an independant authoring house, Warner still does virtually all their authoring through WAMO, whatever it's called now since they sold it.

Has he seen any of these comments yet? I'm curious to hear what his professional opinion is in response to some of these (more specifically MY) suggestions.

WickyWoo · 08-20-2007, 07:20 PM

"He really appriciates your input, and feels it's been quite an eye-opener. One thing you should understand is that he is an author, not a producer and is therefore essentially a technician who implements what the studios give him. On some titles they have creative control, and maybe in the future if/when he's a producer he'll have major control. But when it comes to things like the studio menu templates, he doesn't have control. If you feel they could use improvement, write a constructive letter (snail mail so it'll get read) to the studio with suggestions. Please continue though, because it'll shape the influence he does have, and he really appriciates all the input. It's quite an education

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08-19-2007, 02:32 AM	#1
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Good Menus/Bad Menus A friend of mine has authored many of your favorite titles over the years (no I can't say which as who knows might see this, major studio titles, anime, large and small he's done it), and he's about to move into Blu/HD authoring. As you might figure, the rules of menu design and interactivity are greatly different than they are on DVD, and he's like to know what your favorite and least favorite menus are and why. What makes it intuitive or hard to use? How about placement on the screen? Is less more? He'll probably get to work on some great titles in the future, so please be as specific as possible. Thanks all!

08-19-2007, 03:15 AM	#2
Blu-dock Saint Special Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Michigan Blu-ray collection:47 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:67	Hmm I've never really thought about this before, I like menu's that pop up from the bottom, that way they're really not in the way of the movie. Nothing complex, keep it simple such as POTC's menu's. I wouldnt mind if more movies do what warner does and just have the movie start and you can have a pop up menu during the movie. Call me crazy but I like to get into the movie as quick as I can.

08-19-2007, 04:08 AM	#3
Xen Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Blu-ray collection:127 Trading Score:21	Sometimes, I buy a movie I haven't seen for 5 years. I don't want to watch it from the beginning right away, I want to jump to an old scene that I really liked, or a scene that I think of as demo material. However, a frustrating feature on Blu-ray movies that DVD did not have was chapter titles. I cannot always remember what is going on in a movie by one small frame on the screen. If the clips won't be 5 second clips (which would be nice) then please, just a couple words to identify the moment. Other than that, no comment. For now.

08-19-2007, 05:05 AM	#4
Petra_Kalbrain Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Vancouver, BC 4K collection:5 Blu-ray collection:561 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:20	As a Blu-ray reviewer, this topic is one of my biggest pet peeves about the format (next to MPEG-2 encoding). Here is my take on what, in my mind, would be the ideal scenario for menu system authoring. In fact, based on the following criteria, Warner Bros. titles have been losing at least 1 full point of overall rating on all of their titles reviewed by myself. So, if your friend works for Warner Bros. PLEASE PASS THESE ALONG!!! #1. Film begins immediately without stopping at a "Main Menu" screen. #2. The menu transitioning should flow (menus fading/sliding into and out of view) #3. DO NOT USE AN 'X' OPTION FOR CLOSING MENUS... pressing down on the remote at the bottom of the list should be enough. #4. Creatively integrate the menu design with the atmosphere of the film (see The Prestige, A Knight's Tale, The Guardian as good examples of this) #5. Although the film should start automatically without a "Main Menu" screen, there should still be one accessible via the playback menu bar. And that screen should still be given the attention to include a score sample, still images, clips, and fluidity. Make it part of the movie experience. That's my ideal scenario for menu design. Any agreements/disagreements? It's funny you asked this because the owner of the website I review for and myself were discussing it the other day. He doesn't like the integration of menu design, but I find that when a menu pops up (especially during playback of a movie) it should maintain the design of the production. Instead, most of the time, these big blocks are sharply popping in and out and are all poorly coloured (or worse, TEXTURED WITH A LAME SKIN). This subconsciously forces me out of the frame of mind I had while watching the film, which means more work to get back into the film when I'm done with the menu. Last edited by Petra_Kalbrain; 08-19-2007 at 02:30 PM.

08-19-2007, 05:25 AM	#5
Shin-Ra Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:5 Trading Score:1	I prefer it if there's no SFX at all on the menu transitions or buttons. It sounds bad on a pop-up menu over the movie and seems unpolished when you're flicking through menus quickly and successive sound effects don't play because the previous sound hasn't finished playing yet.

08-19-2007, 02:59 PM	#7
Zarathustra Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:In the midst of Philly and NYC	I'm anti-swooshing and in agreement with Petra

08-19-2007, 03:45 PM	#8
Mulder Active Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:South Africa	I don't like it when the film starts without first going to the menu. What if you want to change the sound options? Now you're missing the start of the movie because you're messing with the menu. Rather go to the menu first, let us sort out our options and then we can press play when we're ready.

08-19-2007, 08:35 PM	#9
Chad Varnadore Senior Member Member since:Aug 2006 Location:Salisbury, NC Home Theater Gallery:5 Blu-ray collection:349 Blu-ray reviews:19	Personally, I hate it when a disc doesn't detour to a main menu first. Consistent with DVD, BDs almost always default to the lowest quality sound format available on the disc. I much prefer to setup screen and sound options before the movie starts playing rather than during, which was a pet peeve of mine of Disney's early BDs. As for button sounds, I like them with main menus, if they either sound cool or aren't overbearing in volume. But I agree that they're unnecessarily distracting, if not annoying with pop-up menus. I think Sony is doing some of the best menu designs today. Disney, Paramount, and Fox are doing a nice job too. Assuming Warner hasn't changed their recipe, it's been awhile since I've watched a BD from Warner, I've typically found their menus unimaginitive, unattractive, and too restrictive. Universal's are friendlier to use and more thorough than Warners, but they too are unsympathetically unimaginitive, regurgitations of the same design with different backgrounds, if that.

08-20-2007, 07:20 PM	#13
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	"He really appriciates your input, and feels it's been quite an eye-opener. One thing you should understand is that he is an author, not a producer and is therefore essentially a technician who implements what the studios give him. On some titles they have creative control, and maybe in the future if/when he's a producer he'll have major control. But when it comes to things like the studio menu templates, he doesn't have control. If you feel they could use improvement, write a constructive letter (snail mail so it'll get read) to the studio with suggestions. Please continue though, because it'll shape the influence he does have, and he really appriciates all the input. It's quite an education

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