Panasonic SC-PT470 Surround and PS3 Help

[cmp1976]

My dad has a Panasonic SC-PT470 surround sound system and a PS3. He is unable to get 5.1 audio from Blu-ray discs to work. He is using an optical cable to connect the PS3 to the surround but only gets sound in stereo. Does anybody have any suggestions?

[crackinhedz]

whenever using Optical, you always should set to Bitstream.

Also make sure in the PS3 optical settings make sure there is a check mark next to 5.1 Dts and 5.1 Dolby Digital.

[The Hurf]

Actually it all depends on what sort of soundtrack is provided on the Blu Ray your Dad is watching:

The problem with this all-singing, all-dancing Panny system is that while it sounds fantastic for the money, it won't do playback any proper HD soundtracks.

I've been experimenting with my PS3/PT470 in the last couple weeks and I think I'm slowly getting there.

Some Blu Rays come with a regular Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack, Batman Begins, for example, comes with both Dolby TrueHD and DD5.1. Sending the audio down the optical into the Panny I do get the full effect of the DD5.1 as the unit is capable of playing this feed at 640kbp.
However, it also plays the TrueHD feed, although if the PS3 is set to Bitstream you only get a 640kbp feed as opposed to 2mbps+ if set to Linear PCM. It's weird but I think these HD feeds are composed of the original Dolby Digital soundtrack then they add the HD bells and whistles on top. Maybe?

However, if I'm playing a Blu with 'only' a DTS-HD soundtrack, I have to set the PS3 to Linear PCM mode just so I can hear the sound feed, then I set the Panny to Pro Logic mode to decode (as best it can) the uncompressed sound. It kinda works, but obviously it's just a short term solution until I scrape together the cash for a full Blu home cinema kit OR separates.

In short, if the Blu Ray has a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack, leave the PS3 set to Bitstream in the AV options. You won't actually get the HD feed (1-2mbps+) but you should get a standard Dolby Digital 5.1 feed at 640kbps. Played with these settings tonight on Transformers and it seems to work

If you've got a DTS-HD soundtrack, you will need to adjust the AV settings on the PS3 to Linear PCM. Unfortunately this means you will only get a basic stereo mix of the soundtrack, as the Panasonic can't decode the uncompressed stuff properly. Switch the kit over the Pro Logic and you should be able to get a surround field akin to the DTS-HD, but it won't be brilliant. But it will be loud!

[crackinhedz]

Hurf, you make it too complicated!

...whenever using Optical, always set to Bitstream and just enjoy standard Dolby and Dts 5.1

no sense in downmixing Dts-HD MA to 2.0 stereo and trying to apply pro logic.

2.0 will never be surround sound, and your center channel dialogue will usually suffer.



Just my $.02

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by The Hurf

It's weird but I think these HD feeds are composed of the original Dolby Digital soundtrack then they add the HD bells and whistles on top. Maybe?

Thats exactly how Dolby TrueHD and Dts-HD MA work...they contain the "core" audio which is backwards compatible with legacy dolby and dts decoders.

That way all systems can playback.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Hurf, you make it too complicated!

...whenever using Optical, always set to Bitstream and just enjoy standard Dolby and Dts 5.1

no sense in downmixing Dts-HD MA to 2.0 stereo and trying to apply pro logic.

2.0 will never be surround sound, and your center channel dialogue will usually suffer.

Unfortunately, as The Hurf has noted, the Panasonic HTIBs cannot decode any sort of DTS from the optical input. It does DD 5.1, but not DTS. So, you need to set the player's DTS output to PCM. (You should also set the player downmix to Surround Encoding instead of plain stereo. Then, it will use Dolby Surround to send two extra channels in the stereo signal.) ProLogic decoding in the receiver will extract the center and surround channels folded into the Dolby Surround mix. That's the best you can do with DTS on that particular Panasonic theater system.

Dolby is much easier. Set the player's Dolby output to bitstream and the player will send a DD 5.1 track for the receiver to decode.

[The Hurf]

Thanks BIslander, I knew I was on the right track.

I did some research about this back along, and this morning I remembered a conversation I had with my local Panasonic shop; DTS-HD has to be carried by HDMI cable.

So, Crackinhedz if you play a DTS-HD-only Blu Ray on the PS3 using an optical cable you won't hear a thing unless you set the AV on the PS3 to Linear PCM. As both I and BIslander have stated, this will get you a basic stereo feed which the PT470 then turns into something-akin-to-surround using PL2. In fact, I've just been thumbing through the instruction manual for the PT470 and the Pro Logic settings will convert any stereo source (except DivX) to 5.1 if you set it to PL2 music. It's not the best, but it's the best of what's available until I can afford to upgrade!

So, to get the best from my Blu Rays, I either need to get a dedicated Blu Ray home cinema, such as the Panny SC-BT200 (to match my telly and other peripherals!) or go completely overboard and buy a separates system such as the Panny BX500, for example, and then feed the DVD player, PS3 and stuff into the one box and let it work it's magic.

[Ghost14]

Sorry to hijack your thread but I'm unable to make new posts (your solution sounds correct by the way).

My problem is this: I get no surround sound (rear surrounds) when watching blu-rays.

I moved my home theatre from the den to the basement today and all of a sudden my rear surrounds stopped working. I messed around with some settings and got the rear surrounds working for HD satellite and tv shows etc playing on the PS3.But there is no surround sound when I play blu-ray movies or games.

I have an old 80gb PS3 and a Samsung AVR720 receiver. I have an HDMI cable from my PS3 to the input HDMI on the receiver (same thing for the satellite) and the output HDMI going from the receiver to the tv. I changed no settings whatsoever; I only moved the equipment downstairs and when I plugged it in the rears weren't working.

I tested the speakers and hear a tone through all speakers so I know it's not the wires or the speakers. I read the manual and found nothing about changing HD audio output.

It currently displays LPCM when I play blu-rays. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it used to say DTS-HD. When I play a blu-ray the bit rate is what it should be and it definitely sounds like HD sound except for the rear surrounds.

Oh and I have also double checked that I plugged them into the rear surrounds and not surrounds. Like I said, the rear speakers work for everything except for blu-rays and video games.

Any thoughts or ideas?

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Ghost14

My problem is this: I get no surround sound (rear surrounds) when watching blu-rays.

I moved my home theatre from the den to the basement today and all of a sudden my rear surrounds stopped working. I messed around with some settings and got the rear surrounds working for HD satellite and tv shows etc playing on the PS3.But there is no surround sound when I play blu-ray movies or games.

I have an old 80gb PS3 and a Samsung AVR720 receiver. I have an HDMI cable from my PS3 to the input HDMI on the receiver (same thing for the satellite) and the output HDMI going from the receiver to the tv. I changed no settings whatsoever; I only moved the equipment downstairs and when I plugged it in the rears weren't working.

I tested the speakers and hear a tone through all speakers so I know it's not the wires or the speakers. I read the manual and found nothing about changing HD audio output.

It currently displays LPCM when I play blu-rays. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it used to say DTS-HD. When I play a blu-ray the bit rate is what it should be and it definitely sounds like HD sound except for the rear surrounds.

Oh and I have also double checked that I plugged them into the rear surrounds and not surrounds. Like I said, the rear speakers work for everything except for blu-rays and video games.

Sorry, but I'm confused about a few things.

First, it sounds like you have a 5.1 system, not 7.1. Yes? If so, the surrounds need to be attached to the surround left and surround right terminals on the AVR, not the rear terminals. The rears get added in a 7.1 system. If you have a 7.1 system, are you getting audio from one pair of surround speakers, but not the other pair? Which pair?

Second, what do you mean by "HD satellite and TV shows playing on the PS3"? How do you play HD satellite on a PS3? What settings did you change that produce sound in all speakers from those other sources?

Third, you will never see DTS-HD on your AVR when the source is an older PS3, which cannot bitstream lossless codecs. So, LPCM is what the AVR should show when you do the decoding in the PS3. Most AVR displays also show the number and type of channels being received. What does your display show during BD playback?

[Ghost14]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Sorry, but I'm confused about a few things.

First, it sounds like you have a 5.1 system, not 7.1. Yes? If so, the surrounds need to be attached to the surround left and surround right terminals on the AVR, not the rear terminals. The rears get added in a 7.1 system. If you have a 7.1 system, are you getting audio from one pair of surround speakers, but not the other pair? Which pair?

Second, what do you mean by "HD satellite and TV shows playing on the PS3"? How do you play HD satellite on a PS3? What settings did you change that produce sound in all speakers from those other sources?

Third, you will never see DTS-HD on your AVR when the source is an older PS3, which cannot bitstream lossless codecs. So, LPCM is what the AVR should show when you do the decoding in the PS3. Most AVR displays also show the number and type of channels being received. What does your display show during BD playback?

I have a 5.1 system (5 speakers, 1 sub) but the AVR can do 7.1. The speaker terminals on the AVR are labeled as follows:

- 2 front speaker terminals
- 2 surround speaker terminals
- 2 surround back speaker terminals.

I initially thought that may have been the problem so I switched the wires from "surround back" to "surround" and I got a "Protection" message from the AVR. I guess it was being short circuited.

And I meant I have surround from HD satellite (NBA games, etc) and from playing tv shows and movies from my PS3 HDD. Sorry for the confusion. I changed the EX/ES mode on my receiver from "Auto" to "ON" to get the sound on all speakers (for satellite). I think EX/ES is for digital output only. Pretty much all settings on my AVR seem to be digital audio related which is why I'm confused. I don't have any HD audio settings to fiddle with.

As for the DTS-HD I guess I was mistaken. When I play BD movies I see LPCM and little icons lit up for all 8 speakers (including sub). I have it set to the DVD HDMI input so it also says "DVD Multi-Ch".

Don't know if it matters but I tested it using The Incredible Hulk BD and it shows about 5Mbps DTS-HD MA output on the PS3 so I don't think the problem is with the PS3.

Like I said, I didn't change any settings. I just moved my equipment from upstairs to downstairs. The speaker wire is different, that's it. But I have tested all speakers and they all have a tone through them.

[crackinhedz]

ah, ok...no Dts decoder, thats makes sense,,,I misunderstood.

Thats a bummer.

[BIslander]

Ghost14 - I think you need to start over and get the AVR properly configured. It looks like you have configured things for 7.1, hooked your speakers to the wrong outputs, and used surround modes on the AVR to reroute audio. That's lots of unnecessary zigging and zagging that doesn't even work in all situations. The proper AVR configuration will fix things right up.

1. Do a reset on your AVR so that everything is back to the default settings. You don't have to do this. But, it makes it much easier to start from a known point.

2. Connect your surround speakers to the surround terminals on the AVR. The backs/rears are not in play at all.

3. Go into the AVR setup and configure it for 5.1. There will be a setup screen where you set the number of speakers and you want to make sure the rear surrounds are set to None or Off and all the other speakers are set to On.

4. Configure the PS3 for 5.1 output, not 7.1. It looks like the other PS3 settings are probably correct. When you play a Blu-ray, you want the PS3 to decode it and output six channels of PCM audio.

You should be good to go at that point. There may be some fine tuning to be done with the satellite input when the source material is stereo instead of DD 5.1. But, deal with that after you get the basic set-up worked out.

btw, PCM is digital audio. The HD codecs are really just zip files used to save space on the disc. Your PS3 unzips the HD files back into PCM before sending them to your AVR for further processing. All those digital audio modes such as PLII, DTS-ES, DD-EX, and DTS Neo:6 are applied to PCM.

[Ghost14]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Ghost14 - I think you need to start over and get the AVR properly configured. It looks like you have configured things for 7.1, hooked your speakers to the wrong outputs, and used surround modes on the AVR to reroute audio. That's lots of unnecessary zigging and zagging that doesn't even work in all situations. The proper AVR configuration will fix things right up.

1. Do a reset on your AVR so that everything is back to the default settings. You don't have to do this. But, it makes it much easier to start from a known point.

2. Connect your surround speakers to the surround terminals on the AVR. The backs/rears are not in play at all.

3. Go into the AVR setup and configure it for 5.1. There will be a setup screen where you set the number of speakers and you want to make sure the rear surrounds are set to None or Off and all the other speakers are set to On.

4. Configure the PS3 for 5.1 output, not 7.1. It looks like the other PS3 settings are probably correct. When you play a Blu-ray, you want the PS3 to decode it and output six channels of PCM audio.

You should be good to go at that point. There may be some fine tuning to be done with the satellite input when the source material is stereo instead of DD 5.1. But, deal with that after you get the basic set-up worked out.

btw, PCM is digital audio. The HD codecs are really just zip files used to save space on the disc. Your PS3 unzips the HD files back into PCM before sending them to your AVR for further processing. All those digital audio modes such as PLII, DTS-ES, DD-EX, and DTS Neo:6 are applied to PCM.

Thank you so much!

Turns out the guy who hooked up my satellite and speakers connected it to the rears initially. Obviously we heard no sound. Then when I asked him to try the surround we got that weird Protection message. He must have not hooked it up properly.

I just put the speakers from rear to surround and everything works perfectly. I still have 8 icons showing in the AVR but I'm not complaining.

And I learned something new too . I always thought speaker 6 and 7 were added to the sides; turns out they are added to the "rear".

Again, thanks a lot BIslander. And I'm sorry I hijacked the thread.

[BIslander]

Glad it's working for the most part. But, you really should configure the AVR and player for 5.1. If you don't, you'll be missing audio from discs with 7.1 content.

EDIT: Also, if you are still using something like DTS-ES or DD-EX on your TV sources, you'll be sending audio to rear speakers that no longer exist.

[The Hurf]

You beat me to it BIslander.

Hang on, new PS3's don't output LPCM? That's bit of an oversight, isn't it? Will wonders never cease in the name of progress, so Sony just assume everyone has a AV kit capable of decoding DTS HD...?

But I suppose if you run the PS3 straight into a TV you will hear the DTS-HD audio, but surely that's a right load of faffing about going nowhere, particularly if you want 5.1 (or 7.1) surround?

I don't think there's many 7.1 surround tracks out there at the moment, although I believe Lionsgate are the studio most prolific with these although they apply this soundtrack to some very dubious films; at least that's what I've read on this very site. The excellent Western 3:10 to Yuma comes with this 7.1 soundtrack which I desperately want to hear, as well as a DD5.1EX soundtrack, which is also marvellous.

Would Lucasfilm present Star Wars in 7.1 LCPM on Blu Ray? Or perhaps DTS-MA? One can only hope

Looks like I shall have to start saving for a decent AV kit, as before the BT200 has everything I think I need, plus I can purchase some additional wireless speakers to enhance the whole package to 7.1. I may never leave the house again if my plan comes to fruition! Bwaaa ahhahahahahaha!

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by The Hurf

I've just been thumbing through the instruction manual for the PT470 and the Pro Logic settings will convert any stereo source (except DivX) to 5.1 if you set it to PL2 music. It's not the best, but it's the best of what's available until I can afford to upgrade!

As noted earlier, you can improve ProLogic's surround processing by setting your player's downmix setting to surround instead of stereo.

So, to get the best from my Blu Rays, I either need to get a dedicated Blu Ray home cinema, such as the Panny SC-BT200 (to match my telly and other peripherals!) or go completely overboard and buy a separates system such as the Panny BX500, for example, and then feed the DVD player, PS3 and stuff into the one box and let it work it's magic.

No need to match your other devices. You won't get better audio or video doing that. HDMI sync is nice. But, a good remote is even better.

I think it's better to buy the best value in audio-video equipment, which is usually not an HTIB, especially not Panasonic. If you want an HTIB, take a look at Onkyo. They build their systems around real AVRs, which allows you to upgrade your speakers later on without needing to buy a whole new system. Speakers generally have the biggest impact on sound quality.

Hang on, new PS3's don't output LPCM? That's bit of an oversight, isn't it? Will wonders never cease in the name of progress, so Sony just assume everyone has a AV kit capable of decoding DTS HD...?

No. PS3 slims add the ability to bitstream the HD codecs. But, you can still decode in the player and output PCM.

But I suppose if you run the PS3 straight into a TV you will hear the DTS-HD audio, but surely that's a right load of faffing about going nowhere, particularly if you want 5.1 (or 7.1) surround?

You'll get high quality stereo played on terrible speakers. Not much point to that.

[The Hurf]

Hmmm, I've just fired up the PT470 and shuffled through the various menus, but I can't really see anything that directs me to improving the ProLogic's surround processing by setting the downmix setting to surround instead of stereo. Or am I having a total blonde moment and are you in fact referring to the PS3? As I don't think there's that option either in the Sound/AV Menu's?

I'd love to get a whizzy AVR system, but unfortunately funds are tight and I'm just too lazy to keep carting the PS3 up and down the stairs everytime I want to watch a Blu Ray. I have a games room upstairs you see, where I keep the PS3 safe and sound away from nephews, godchildren and my slobbery dog.

My budget for something like this would really be no more than £400, so unless Onkyo do something for that kind of dough, it really is going to have a be a standard HTIB and for my needs, the sort of power and quality Sony/Panasonic/Samsung can provide should be more than enough.

The system I have in mind is the SC-BT200 prices range from £300 - £400. Although it is a Panasonic yada yada, it ticks a load of boxes for me as it's the next step up from the PT470 I already have; I can use a bare minimum of remotes, can play Blu Rays and plus it decodes DTS HD, DTS HD-MA and all variants of Dolby up to and including TrueHD. Not too shabby for the price? Oh and the iPod dock is very useful for charging said iPod and to be fair the PT470 had the best sound reproduction on the iPod of all the HTIB's I tried in the shop.

Plus these HTIB systems are simple enough for even my girlfriend to use, who of course shares the lounge with me (but is forbidden to enter the Den)

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by The Hurf

Hmmm, I've just fired up the PT470 and shuffled through the various menus, but I can't really see anything that directs me to improving the ProLogic's surround processing by setting the downmix setting to surround instead of stereo. Or am I having a total blonde moment and are you in fact referring to the PS3? As I don't think there's that option either in the Sound/AV Menu's?

It would be on the PS3. I don't own one. But, players almost always have a downmix setting where you can specify whether you want the downmix to be straight stereo or stereo created using Dolby Surround. (Some players use the generic term Surround Encoded.)

Plus these HTIB systems are simple enough for even my girlfriend to use, who of course shares the lounge with me (but is forbidden to enter the Den)

A good remote makes any system easy to operate. We have four disc players, a cable box, and an HDMI switch in our system. The AVR lacks HDMI, so audio and video are all routed separately. My seven year old daughter can use the system! She just hits the button for the activity she wants and the remote takes care of everything else.

I understand that each situation is different and a Panasonic HTIB may be your best option. But, you'll likely end up back in the same boat you're in now where you can't upgrade any parts of your system without throwing it out and starting over yet again.

[The Hurf]

Unfortunately my missus is a bit of a technophobe, she plays with something once, can't work it, so gives up and spends months moaning about how difficult it is use while I breeze through the menus quite contentedly. Women, eh?

This Panasonic thing does everything I want, decodes everything, I can plug the PS3 optically to play games in Dolby Surround and still have a spare optical port for Sky/Cable, use the ipod. It upscales DVD's too. I don't think I could want anything else from a system, maybe 3D but I can't view 3D movies without getting eye strain (thanks a bunch, Avatar) so that's pointless for me. In fact, I think Panasonic have revised their specs for the BT200 and refined it a little so I'm hoping that by making a purchase like this I will future-proof my home AV setup for at least the next decade.