I like that movie, but it's a ripoff of a better one
Everybody has heard people say 'Avatar' was just a ripoff of 'Dances with Wolves'. That doesn't mean that 'Avatar' is better or worse than 'Dances with Wolves', but the sentiment is understandable: if you find it obvious that a movie is largely lifted from another source, it's an obstacle to enjoying the film.
I remember when Tarantino movies first started coming out, when I was in highschool (class of '95), I thought they were so fresh and original; but then it turns out that they only appeared fresh to me because at that age I hadn't seen very many R-rated films and was completely unfamiliar with the movies of Scorsese and Peckinpah, and largely unfamiliar with the films of Leone, DePalma, and Coppola. Now, the shine is off Tarantino films for me, because they are almost completely derived from Peckinpah films (with elements from those other directors), and Peckinpah used film as an homage to the world he grew up in, a world that he believed was dead or dying, and which deserved to be preserved through the arts for future generations; whereas Tarantino's films are just an homage to the films he grew up watching: they are basically films about other films, they feel very "un-necessary" to me, and lack a personal connection between the filmmaker and the internal world of the film. I heard it said in school that all art is an abstract form of autobiography, and truly good art transcends beyond the creator and becomes autobiographical to the viewer as well. To be fair, Tarantino freely admits his source of inspiration; but his movies are so deep in pastiche, that to me they are like prints compared to paintings, because it isn't just themes that he copies, it's all the little details too. 'True Romance' is a copy of 'Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia'.
Then there are movies that are derived from earlier work that has such a universal resonance, that they are necessarily personal, movies derived from grand mythic themes that are a part of everybody's consciousness and experience. For those movies, being a copy of something else perhaps makes them better. Few have used this better than George Lucas. While many have argued that 'Star Wars' was a copy of 'The Hidden Fortress', few would suggest that 'The Hidden Fortress' comes anywhere close to connecting so deeply with such a broad spectrum of viewers, because of the way that Lucas copied timeless myth and legend into the story. By contrast, with 'Indiana Jones', Lucas did just as I described about Tarantino, they are just movies about other movies (Jungle Jim, Allan Quatermain, Gunga Din)... but they are very fun. When Lucas wrapped Star Wars in 2005, he went back to that original formula of tapping into universal legend by copying one of the most timeless and yet individually relevant stories ever: 'Revenge of the Sith' is a copy of Shakespeare's 'Othello'. I know, I know, Shakespeare wrote plays, not movies... but that's a technicality, many would say that Shakespeare was the first filmmaker. At any rate, 'Othello' has been made into a film, several times.
Then, there's one that I saw the other day. I watched the John Wayne film 'The Shootist', the one he starred in while he was dying which was released after his death, and I realized: 'Gran Torino' is a copy of 'The Shootist'. In 'The Shootist', John Wayne learns that he is dying from cancer. He goes about cursing and straightening-out all the vultures in his life, saying things that often only an old or dying man get the privilege of saying. He decides to give guidance and mentorship to the aimless boy next door, the one who tried to steal his horse. Before dying, he has one last fight he has to face, a gun fight with a gang of vengeful cons, and he goes into the fight with the intent of making it a suicide mission. And, of course, in his will he leaves his horse to the kid who tried to steal it. Notwithstanding, I thoroughly enjoyed and recommend 'Gran Torino', as well as 'The Shootist'.
So, what do you think? Do you folks have any thoughts or examples of films that you think are copies of other films? Is the copy better or worse than the original? Do you have filmmakers that you would label as "copycats"?
So, what do you think? Do you folks have any thoughts or examples of films that you think are copies of other films? Is the copy better or worse than the original? Do you have filmmakers that you would label as "copycats"?
The Passion of the Christ is a total ripoff of The Life of Brian. Jewish man, born of a reported virgin birth, is thought to be the Messiah. Gets killed in the end. I think his last name was Maximus in one of them...
Michael Cera is a total ripoff of Chester:
Zack and Miri is a scene by scene, shot by shot ripoff of Zack and Miri Make a Porno. Two friends recruit others to help them make a porno to help pay the rent, and
[Show spoiler]end up together
...
Jeez... you plagiarize in college, you get expelled...
Everybody has heard people say 'Avatar' was just a ripoff of 'Dances with Wolves'. That doesn't mean that 'Avatar' is better or worse than 'Dances with Wolves', but the sentiment is understandable: if you find it obvious that a movie is largely lifted from another source, it's an obstacle to enjoying the film...
No, it doesn't make it better or worse than Pocahontas, Ferngully, Dances With Wolves or Princess Mononoke. But it does kind of reflect on Avatar poorly when you consider that it ripped off (not homaged) "Call Me Joe" - a sci-fi novel about a paraplegic working for a company terraforming a planet inhabited by native aliens, where the air is unbreathable by humans, so they create a surrogate body for the paraplegic man to use to traverse the planet without respiratory gear. He ends up going native; enjoying the freedom of having legs again and he sides with the natives and fights the terraformation of the planet.
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Originally Posted by mjbethancourt
So, what do you think? Do you folks have any thoughts or examples of films that you think are copies of other films? Is the copy better or worse than the original? Do you have filmmakers that you would label as "copycats"?
Other than that, I think that Equilibrium is an almost total rip-off of Fahrenheit 451. There's even a woman who is burned with her possessions, just like the woman who chooses to be burned with her books. It's ridiculous.
No, it doesn't make it better or worse than Pocahontas, Ferngully, Dances With Wolves or Princess Mononoke. But it does kind of reflect on Avatar poorly
(Namely, an example of a ripoff that didn't work, because a ripoff implies actual theft, not just being dopey and too-close-to-your-material enough to think your ideas were original. )
Now, more to the point of the header, "Clue" was better (or at least on its own equal footing) than "Murder By Death"...
But, since everyone's pretty much just laughing at the OP's original post by now, it would just bring down the party to mention it.
A classic... going to bring it up in the 'recommend a lesser known film' thread...
I already did before I started this thread.
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Paul Kersey Other than that, I think that Equilibrium is an almost total rip-off of Fahrenheit 451. There's even a woman who is burned with her possessions, just like the woman who chooses to be burned with her books. It's ridiculous.
Yep, I remember that. There's a lot of re-tread all over that whole subgenre.
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Originally Posted by EricJ
But, since everyone's pretty much just laughing at the OP's original post by now, it would just bring down the party to mention it.
That's pretty rude and un-called-for, and also a big assumption to make: speak for yourself, I don't see a bunch of people laughing it up just yet.
Last edited by mjbethancourt; 07-16-2010 at 10:26 AM.
That's pretty un-called-for, and also a big assumption to make. Guess I should make fun of any thread that you start, too.
...Forgot the smiley.
Although admit it: The whole thing was centered around "Why ya gotta pick on Avatar? ", and it's hard to get credibility off to a good start after that, no matter how many "other examples, too!" you try to fill it out with.
I never thought of "Avatar" as a rip-off; I approached it as an adaptation of "Pocahontas," and was generally pleased with it. Now that I keep hearing about how it rips off "Ferngully," "Dances with Wolves," "Last of the Mohicans," "Last Samurai," "Princess Mononoke," and lord-knows-what-else, I guess my opinion of it is gradually going down the drain...
I can understand "Equilibrium" ripping off "Farenheit 451" and "1984," but I love the film regardless.
I know "Doomsday" seems like a total rip-off of numerous films: there's a huge chunk of "Escape from New York" in there, some elements of "Mad Max," "28 Days Later" (especially with some of the music), and probably some others I forgot about. It's pretty darn fun and it has a slick production value, but it's hardly original at all.
Nothing beats a Heston performance. It is super corny, but such a classic. Much better than Smith's version or the other 2 film adaptations.....but the original book beats them all.
Although admit it: The whole thing was centered around "Why ya gotta pick on Avatar? ", and it's hard to get credibility off to a good start after that, no matter how many "other examples, too!" you try to fill it out with.
Wrong. It had nothing to do with "why ya gotta pick on 'Avatar'?" That is a mistaken assumption. I opened with a mention of it because it is a most current and high-profile example of a copycat movie, I never offered an opinion about it one way or the other, and then I never mentioned it again or discussed anything further about it. The post was a thesis, not a defense of 'Avatar' hidden under a list of other movies. A movie that grosses almost $3Billion doesn't need me to defend it, and that's last-year's argument anyway.
Maybe if you actually read the post, instead of just the first sentence, you'll find that "the whole thing centered around" my feelings about Tarantino versus Peckinpah. It would seem that you are the one who wants to talk about 'Avatar', not I.
It's a shame: you offered a very good example yourself, and then ruined it with a half-cocked rude remark.
For the remainder of the thread, for all posters: 'Avatar' has already been covered very well by Paul Kersey's comment, let's please not talk about it anymore. I absolutely do not want this thread becoming a debate about 'Avatar'. 'Avatar' is not the topic of this thread. There are already a hundred threads each with a thousand posts already discussing that topic.
Last edited by mjbethancourt; 07-16-2010 at 10:16 AM.
Yeah. Both campy, but 'Omega Man' has more charm and better direction, and of course, the incomparable Charlton Heston.
Did you ever see Yul Brynner's post-apocalyptic vehicle 'The Ultimate Warrior'? It's the origin of a lot of post-apocalyptic cliches, and is the source of a lot of elements of the video game "Fallout 3", (can't speak for the other fallout games, as I haven't played them).
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Tommyboy81 Throw Mother from a Train was a rip on Strangers on a Train
I thought that was really cute the way they played the internal reference to 'Strangers on a Train'. Both movies are great, and it shows how the same basic story can play to completely different genres. I think 'Throw Momma from the Train' is a hilarious film. Me and my friends and family still quote that movie all the time.
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And now Inception will be a Dark City/Matrix rip. Yep I'll hear it.
Is it too late to start laying friendly wagers on that? Hahaha, I'm sure you're probably right.
Last edited by mjbethancourt; 07-16-2010 at 10:25 AM.
A lot of stories, books, movies will be rip-off to something else at one point or another. We are greatly influence by the things we read and see as we grow up. These days I find most of Hollywood to be a bit lazy however with all these re-make/reboot/re-start or whatever you wish to call them.
The main thing is how original you can make look something that was already done once in your own way. An example of Magnificient Seven. Moving the setting from 17th century Japan to 19th century western america. If you manage to make it look fresh and gave it a new twist, sure the audience will still know that it was done before (well most of the time) but they will still go on the ride with you. That being said, I have to add the following. Seriously most of the kids these days are so clueless and are so taken by rip-off that I doubt they can realise that it was done before. Just in music, how many times have I heard some of the young guys at work "WOW! This song is so cool this rapper is great" only for me to go "you do know that this song was written by Supertramp back in 1974 right?" and have them go "who is Supertramp?". So I find now that they get taken to quickly by certain things that are remake because they have a total lack of knowledge about what happen before they were born. We live in a society of "15 minutes attention span".
The main thing is how original you can make look something that was already done once in your own way...
...An example of Magnificient Seven. Moving the setting from 17th century Japan to 19th century western america. If you manage to make it look fresh and gave it a new twist, sure the audience will still know that it was done before (well most of the time) but they will still go on the ride with you.
Oh, I absolutely agree. All of the basic stories have already been told, what is truly important is what you are using that story to say. Salvador Dali made a lot of paintings with the story of William Tell as the theme. Was it because he ran short of original ideas? No, he revisited the theme many times, because he was comfortable using it to tell a story about himself. That's what I meant about art being autobiographical: even in telling somebody else's story, an artist is really using it to share something about himself.
So, there are good imitations, and there are vulgar and exploitative ones. Sadly, the crass often outnumber the gems.
Throw Mother from a Train was a rip on Strangers on a Train
Escape from L.A was a rip on Escape from NY (even though it's made by the same person. lol)
Superman Returns is a rip on Superman.
I love hearing Dark City is a Matrix ripoff. Even though it's the other way around.
And now Inception will be a Dark City/Matrix rip. Yep I'll hear it.
I take that as more of a homage than a rip-off.
What if a rip-off is actually better than the original movie,what would your feelings be then?Anyone know if that has happened yet in history if filmkind?
(Namely, an example of a ripoff that didn't work, because a ripoff implies actual theft, not just being dopey and too-close-to-your-material enough to think your ideas were original. )
Now, more to the point of the header, "Clue" was better (or at least on its own equal footing) than "Murder By Death"...
But, since everyone's pretty much just laughing at the OP's original post by now, it would just bring down the party to mention it.
Namely an example of an overall inability to read a full post.
I said:
"No, it doesn't make it better or worse than Pocahontas, Ferngully, Dances With Wolves or Princess Mononoke. But it does kind of reflect on Avatar poorly when you consider that it ripped off (not homaged) "Call Me Joe" - a sci-fi novel about a paraplegic working for a company terraforming a planet inhabited by native aliens, where the air is unbreathable by humans, so they create a surrogate body for the paraplegic man to use to traverse the planet without respiratory gear. He ends up going native; enjoying the freedom of having legs again and he sides with the natives and fights the terraformation of the planet."
Call Me Joe was never made into a film, but that doesn't change the fact that Avatar totally ripped the idea off of, from the terraformation vs the natives to the paraplegic in a surrogate, alien body
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I like that movie, but it's a ripoff of a better one
)
", and it's hard to get credibility off to a good start after that, no matter how many "other examples, too!" you try to fill it out with.
It is super corny, but such a classic. Much better than Smith's version 
or the other 2 film adaptations.....but the original book beats them all.
So I find now that they get taken to quickly by certain things that are remake because they have a total lack of knowledge about what happen before they were born. We live in a society of "15 minutes attention span".
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