Okay... hope you guys all had a great weekend. Hot as blazes here in The OC, but that seems to be the trend everywhere these days.
I wanted to check in this afternoon with a bit of an update on Blu-ray Disc. As I reported on Friday, I was having troubles with the HDMI output on the Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc player. Actually, I was having three separate issues. The first was what I consider to be subpar picture quality on several of the first Blu-ray Disc releases. The second was a problem with the HDMI output feeding video to my Panasonic projector properly at 1080i resolution. The final issue, is what I consider to be a problem with the BD-P1000's HDMI output video quality in general. All of these were rather vexing.
Fortunately, on Friday afternoon, I was able to spend a couple hours at Pioneer Electronics with Chris Walker, the company's Manager of New Technology. He invited me to bring my Samsung player and a few of the first Sony and Lionsgate discs over to their offices here in The OC, to take a closer look at some of the quality issues. Pioneer is understandably concerned that people don't judge the quality potential of the Blu-ray Disc format by just a single player and the first few discs, and I was happy to have a chance to compare the performance of the Samsung Blu-ray player to Pioneer's yet-to-be-released Elite BDP-HD1.
We began by connecting both the BD-P1000 and the Elite BDP-HD1 to a pair of side-by-side, matching 50-inch plasma displays - Pioneer's new Pro-FHD1 Elite plasma, that's fully 1080p compatible. We connected the players to the monitors first via HDMI, selected full 1080p resolution (which both the Samsung and the Pioneer are capable of delivering), and used an identical test disc in each player to play back MPEG-2 encoded footage of Disney's Chicken Little (we photographed a nearly identical setup playing the same disc at CES in January). I had told Chris that my first impression of the Samsung player was that the video image lacked some of the detail I had expected to see, and that it wasn't fully delivering all of the color and contrast information encoded on the disc either. Sure enough, that was the first thing we both noticed. Colors and contrast (particularly color) from the BD-P1000 just seemed more subdued compared to the same image delivered by the BDP-HD1, and some of the fine detail in the image was also missing. The difference was rather dramatic. It's almost as if some kind of high-frequency filter is being applied, or as if the Samsung player is doing some kind of extra signal conversion before it sends the signal out via the HDMI connection. It's not the connection itself, because as Chris confirmed, both players use the same HDMI hardware and chipset. So it has to do with the way the Samsung player is processing the signal. By the way, to confirm that what we were seeing was really an issue with the Samsung player, and not the plasma displays, we swapped the displays connected to each player and sure enough, the video quality issues migrated to the new display.
To test something that I suspected might be the case based on my experiences with the Samsung player, we next connected the BD-P1000 to the display via the component output, and selected 1080i resolution. As I suspected, and to Chris' surprise, all of the problems with the video signal just disappeared. Suddenly, the video being displayed by the Samsung was MUCH closer in quality to the 1080p HDMI output of the Pioneer. Colors and contrast were VERY close to identical - colors just popped off the screen - and fine image detail was significantly improved on the Samsung side (although still not quite as good as the Pioneer - the difference was about what you would reasonably expect between analog component and digital HDMI connection, along with an interlaced image versus progressive scan). The upshot is, if you own a Samsung BD-P1000 and you want to experience the best possible image quality - quality that closely approaches the full potential of the video signal encoded on the disc - you NEED to be viewing via the component output.
Now, that's troubling given that protected digital HDMI is what everyone in the industry is encouraging people to use. Yes... the Samsung is capable of delivering full-resolution 1080i video to your display via component. Like all Blu-ray and HD-DVD players, the player must be able to read the Image Constraint Token flag on the software if the studios choose to turn it on (and thus disallow full-resolution analog playback). However, the good news so far is that neither Sony or Lionsgate has chosen to exercise this option yet (for that matter, neither have any of the HD-DVD supporting studios either).
By the way, the scaling problem I was having between the Samsung and my Panasonic LCD projector via HDMI at 1080i resolution wasn't happening with the Pioneer plasma. It also isn't happening at any resolution via the component outputs, so it's definitely something endemic to the way the Samsung and my projector handshake via the HDMI connection. I'm hearing a few reports from other Panasonic projector owners who are having the same problem, so it's not just confined to my specific model of projector.
While we were conducting our tests, Pioneer's Senior Vice President Andy Parsons joined us for while. We continued sampling various Blu-ray Disc titles from Sony and Lionsgate, along with some other film demo material, including one clip that was encoded in VC1 format. Those of you who are interested in how Blu-ray displays VC1 material will be pleased to know that it looks absolutely spectacular. Unfortunately, I can't talk about the specific clips we saw, but it wouldn't be fair to compare Blu-ray's VC1 quality to that of HD-DVD at this point anyway, especially not from a single short clip. I will tell you, however, that one specific piece of test footage we looked at (in MPEG-2) was hands-down the single most stunning high-def video I've ever seen. I've seen a lot of HD video in my day, but NOTHING this good in terms of detail, color, contrast and lack of compression artifacting. I have no doubt that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc are capable of delivering video quality of this level eventually, but I'm betting full-length movie discs this good won't start hitting store shelves until mid-to-late next year... when the authoring and compression folks have had enough time to really hone their wizardry with these formats. The same was also true in the early days of DVD, of course, and compression quality has only gotten better since 1997. I suspect the same will be true with HD. Suffice it to say that when the average video DOES get that good on HD-DVD and Blu-ray, there's going to be something said for the argument that once you experience that kind of HD quality, it's hard to go back to regular DVD.
Anyway, I left Pioneer feeling a LOT more confident about what I was seeing from the Samsung player. I know now that the picture quality the player delivers via HDMI is significantly inferior to that of its component output, and I know that Samsung's 1080i component output comes very close to delivering the full image quality encoded on the discs. I also have a better handle on the software quality issues - what's related to disc compression or to transfer issues. As a result of this, I've begun to evaluate the first wave of Blu-ray titles with all this in mind. I'm also going to compare the Toshiba's HD-A1 player's HDMI output with its component quality, and begin seriously reviewing the first several waves of HD-DVD titles with a more confident eye as well. Chalk it all up to the kinds of critical re-training you need to do with any new video format. C'est la vie in this industry in the 21st Century!
Rest assured, however, we'll check back tomorrow with a full update of all the latest standard DVD release news, and we've got a number of standard DVD reviews on the way as well. Also, we've got a big (and long overdue, we know) update of the Upcoming DVD Cover Art section nearly ready, and Todd checks back in with a new Doogan's Views column this week as well. So stay tuned...!
that's an informative report, it's nice to know that picture quality can be better. Can anyone explain why hdmi would have an inferior picture? I am thinking with with digital path it would be optimal quality
I had heard this a few days ago. While I doubt it would have been enough of an improvement to make me change my mind, I do wish I would have tried the component outputs before I returned the Sammy. Oh well.
Eh, I would just wait for the Pioneer anyway. Samsung can kiss my hiney.
my sentiments almost exactly (im going sony). IMO the samsung is worth $499 not $999 but maybe they'll have a firmware disc to fix things soon... who knows.
I'll just stick with my Ayre Acoustics DX-7e DVD transport which is connected (to a Loewe Aventos HD CRT) via an RGB cable......and it pumps out a GORGEOUS picture with only a mere 480p signal!
I thought you couldn't play BR movies without the HDMI?
As I understand it you will always be able to play movies on Blu-ray Disk media on any output available from the player.
The issue is the ICT flag. *IF* the ICT flag gets implemented the only cable systems which may support it are DVI (with component audio) and HDMI. Thus *IF* the ICT flag gets implemented the highest resolution that can be shown on any outputs other than these two will have a maximum output resolution of 860 x 540. You can still play it, but with significantly reduced resolution.
If the ICT flag does not get implemented you should be able to play (and view) any Blu-ray Disk media at full resolution.
There is NO movie out now on BD that is in native 1080P
There is NO movie out now on BD that is recorded in native 1080P.. Super HI-REZ BD movies are not coming out until next year I hear. So that is one major issue why it looks SO horrible through HDMI on the Samsung BD-P1000. I am a Senior Sales at Circuit City, and we have the Samsung BD-P1000 hooked up to the Samsung HLR-5687W(which it says to be 1080P) Of course that is not true either, as it only accepts a native 1080P signal through their PC input Soooooooooo... I am waiting for the Sony XBR2 or the Samsung HLS-5688w (8th Generation Samsung DLP) with will accept a native 1080P through the component and/or HDMI input. Hooking the BD-P1000 to one of those TV's should be much better, yet wont know how great the picture can be until you have 3 things. A.) 1080P BD player B.) a TV that accepts a 1080P signal through component and/or HDMI and C.) A BD movie in a native 1080P recorded format.
For right now, we have to settle with 720P output or 1080i on our BD-P1000 player .. Looks really good, yet not what it should be or can be.
And another frustrating issue, all the REPS have these "DEMO" disc that claims to have 1080P recorded stuff on it. It's like a teaser.. very annoying.. All they do is claim that they're better than their competitors, and try to make a buck..
There is NO movie out now on BD that is recorded in native 1080P. Of course that is not true either, as it only accepts a native 1080P signal through their PC input
Ummm.... why do you say no movies are in 1080p? All the movies sure as heck say right on the case '1080p' - are you saying that they are lying? I'm pretty sure the movies ARE encoded at 1080p, but the use of single layer discs and MPEG2 is not giving the format enough space to look good.
As for the Samsung not being a true 1080p display... any display that can accurately show 1920x1080 pixels has a native rate of 1080, regardless of what input resolutions it can handle. This may not make people happy, but it is accurate.
It is definitely true that the best results will be achieved with 1080p displays that accept 1080p, but they must accept 1080p/24 which is native for films and show it at a true 24hz or multiple thereof (48/72/etc.) or else judder will be introduced into the display at some level.
The Samsung has it's own issues to deal with since the HDMI connection is less than excellent and then the discs have the issue of just looking lousy.
I think what he means is that none of the movies out now have been SHOT in 1080p, which means very little, as even 16mm film has more resolution than 1080p.
There is NO movie out now on BD that is recorded in native 1080P.. Super HI-REZ BD movies are not coming out until next year I hear. So that is one major issue why it looks SO horrible through HDMI on the Samsung BD-P1000. I am a Senior Sales at Circuit City
As a Senior Sales member at the City I think you should do a little more homework I.E. read about the products your selling before assuming or posting misinformation...Blu Ray disc movies are 1080p. they authored from resolutions much higher. I think what you are reffering to is fixed Bit rate, and Dual Layer discs that will allow for such. Then we should see better PQ or if they do stick to SL on most titles they will need to Use a more efficient codec such as mpeg4 or vc-1.
i just hate going to the city (or most other places). it just always seems that everyone is uneducated (especially about high end systems). they hand you a speaker system in a box and say it is the best. it's almost as if those products don't exist to them. give me components any day of the week and im stoked.
Lol i had a person at a city try and tell me the larger the speaker would equal guaranteed better sound and then he told me that bose is true hi fi and is one of the best speaker manufacture's out there.
You guys have to understand that being enthusiasts about electronics, we know more than probably most people who actually sell this stuff. It's impossible to know everything and the guys in B&M's are limited to certain products they carry to be enthusiastic about. should they lie?, ofcourse not. But i'm sure some would argue that BOSE is a fabulous speaker. Some would call a YAMAH receiver crap and only buy Marantz. It's all whats within your means and whats readily available. I have people come into BB and try and "Challenge" my knowledge all thetime. I think it's funny because they expect me to stunble...then they looked shocked when i know the answers.
Bose is expensive and junk. The thing is I just feel that if your going to sell audio video you should be passionate about it and read about it so that your knowledgeable and can inform the customer.
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Samsung player better performer over component?
Soooooooooo... I am waiting for the Sony XBR2 or the Samsung HLS-5688w (8th Generation Samsung DLP) with will accept a native 1080P through the component and/or HDMI input. Hooking the BD-P1000 to one of those TV's should be much better, yet wont know how great the picture can be until you have 3 things. A.) 1080P BD player B.) a TV that accepts a 1080P signal through component and/or HDMI and C.) A BD movie in a native 1080P recorded format.
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