Is my plasma too old?

[mrchallenge]

Hi, I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-940HD 42' Plasma.

I bought it for $3300 back in early 2007. At the time, it was pretty top of the line stuff and got good reviews when it came out.

I use it primarily to watch blu rays since I don't watch alot of TV. Films look very cinematic on it.

I can't help but wonder though, the contrast ratio of my plasma is around 600:1 to 800:1. That was considered pretty high back in 2007, but is now considered pitiful compared to newer models. Even your average entry level LCD from best buy has a better contrast ratio than that.

Am I reading too much into it or is my TV a little too old and now being outperformed by newer model LEDs? Am I missing out on details that I would've gotten on a tv with a higher contrast ratio?

[slimdude]

If your Pioneer Elite still looks good to you, that's all that matters.. Hang on to it! Technology advances practically on a daily basis, and it would be very difficult to keep up. But there are the early adopters, who must have the latest and the greatest of every new technology that arrives on the market, and are able to afford to upgrade their equipment accordingly. Pioneer are no longer manufacturing HDTVs, so you have a classic on hand. If you just want a newer model HDTV, then go for it, but don't get rid of your Pioneer. Put it in another room, if you decide to buy another TV.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by mrchallenge

Hi, I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-940HD 42' Plasma.

I bought it for $3300 back in early 2007. At the time, it was pretty top of the line stuff and got good reviews when it came out.

I use it primarily to watch blu rays since I don't watch alot of TV. Films look very cinematic on it.

I can't help but wonder though, the contrast ratio of my plasma is around 600:1 to 800:1. That was considered pretty high back in 2007, but is now considered pitiful compared to newer models. Even your average entry level LCD from best buy has a better contrast ratio than that.

Am I reading too much into it or is my TV a little too old and now being outperformed by newer model LEDs? Am I missing out on details that I would've gotten on a tv with a higher contrast ratio?

There is nothing wrong with your set. You have to compare like to like; when you compare every factor - dot pitch, black levels, color control, and all of the other factors, these published numbers mean very little (actually, nothing in my book).

The best way to figure it out is to take a known quantity Blu-Ray movie, of reference quality. Play it on your setup. Then go to a video outlet, ask to see the best they have playing the same disc. Then you'll have the real answer, even if the screen is "uncalibrated".

I just did this. The Magnolia I frequent had the new 84" LG 4K unit, and I played the Imax scenes from The Dark Knight - the opening robbery sequence, then the underground pursuit sequence. These are the tests I used:

• Opening sequence: screen door effect on the building windows in the overhead shot. Little difference.
• The wrinkles in the Joker's suit as he waits for the Suburban to pick him up. This is a torture test. The LG failed miserably; Kuro wins, you can see every detail.
• Teargas attack in the bank office; too orange on the LG. I pulled the TV out of "torch" mode, tried it in various modes, all failed.
• Chase sequence: the flaming fire truck was brilliant on both sets, but the LG crushed everything else in this twilight shot. Kuro wins.
• When the Joker's semi first slides open the trailer door, we can see the people and not much else; blacks totally crushed. Kuro wins.
• The Batmobile is taken into combat mode: this was the ultimate torture test. The shot is of the interior of the Batmobile, and Batman's seat slides back, he stretches forward, and is now in some kind of tunnel within the car. It is only lit by various screens in the vehicle. His costume and everything else is almost imperceptibly lit. The LG failed this test, completely. I froze the screen, and tried every mode and adjustment to increase contrast, changed film modes, gray scaling, everything. It just crashed and burned. I was playing the film through an Oppo BDP-105, too. At one point, all I could see were the background screens, very blurry, and a orange smear where outside lights shone on Batman's cape. My Kuro shows actual detail on this dim scene.

I repeated these tests with the same gear on a Samsung, and a Sony screen. Same results. I completely bypassed the Sharp 90"; that think looked like someone was using crayons to reproduce TV signals, it was so bad.

I'm really looking forward to getting a huge screen, and projection is not in the cards. The new LED's are NOT the answer; if you want a bigger set, you'll be in the 60 to 65 inch range, from whatever is out there. But LED just isn't there - at least yet - and you probably have the best picture you're going to get until OLED, or a different plasma screen, is thoroughly reviewed by you personally.

Ignore the stats. Believe your eyes.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I'm really looking forward to getting a huge screen, and projection is not in the cards. The new LED's are NOT the answer; if you want a bigger set, you'll be in the 60 to 65 inch range, from whatever is out there. But LED just isn't there - at least yet - and you probably have the best picture you're going to get until OLED, or a different plasma screen, is thoroughly reviewed by you personally.

I'll take heed to this advice myself. Thanks.

[mrchallenge]

Thanks alot for replying.

The Imax scenes of the Dark Knight look mind blowing on my TV, most other blu rays look pretty good.

However, Once Upon a time in the West, which is considered near reference quality, showed only good but not great improvement over the DVD version on my TV, which was the impetus for me making this thread in the first place. I was thinking at the time that maybe it would look better on a newer TV.

Maybe I should get a used Kuro for my next TV!

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by mrchallenge

Thanks alot for replying.

The Imax scenes of the Dark Knight look mind blowing on my TV, most other blu rays look pretty good.

However, Once Upon a time in the West, which is considered near reference quality, showed only good but not great improvement over the DVD version on my TV, which was the impetus for me making this thread in the first place. I was thinking at the time that maybe it would look better on a newer TV.

Maybe I should get a used Kuro for my next TV!

The variances in video quality, is not the source of your TV. Most likely the difference is in the movie. The video quality of blu-ray movies, are inconsistent. Some have better HD transfers than others.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by mrchallenge

Thanks alot for replying.

The Imax scenes of the Dark Knight look mind blowing on my TV, most other blu rays look pretty good.

However, Once Upon a time in the West, which is considered near reference quality, showed only good but not great improvement over the DVD version on my TV, which was the impetus for me making this thread in the first place. I was thinking at the time that maybe it would look better on a newer TV.

Maybe I should get a used Kuro for my next TV!

You could do worse, but the Kuro has met it's match with various Panasonics recently released. I don't know how long they'll be available, though. They are very close to the Kuro, which is still the videophile favorite.

Unfortunately, the Kuro - as nice as it is - has become a reference instrument that is tossed around by fans as absolutely unbeatable. While it is ever so slightly better than just about anything out there, it's not something to slight other TV's with. The problem is that absolute crap - the Sharp "Elite" was one - is compared to it. Don't be fooled.

Panasonic now wears the crown, if you're looking for the best. A heck of a lot of other televisions are very nice, too, including a couple of Sony's.

But I'd wait. You have very nice gear. Stay with it until something proves to be a true winner, and from what I've seen from this CES, it's not here yet.

[saprano]

Dont get an LCD. Get a Panasonic VT60. A ZT60 if you watch TV in a bright room. The filter is really good, but at the cost of a little brightness though.

If you want a used Kuro you'll have to search for one. Check the classifieds at AVS. Ebay has a few too. Make sure you get one with low hours and also see it in person if you can.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by mrchallenge

Thanks alot for replying.

Maybe I should get a used Kuro for my next TV!

Why buy another old Pioneer HDTV, when you already have one? That wouldn't make sense! You'll be going back in time, instead of going forward. It seems that you're sold on Pioneer but, Pioneer is not the only manufacturer who've made good quality, reputable HDTVs. If you want a new HDTV, do extensive research, read reviews, make comparisons, shop around and then make your final decision.

[BluRoo98]

Everyone's advice is great. One thing to consider, you said your Kuro is only a 42". That's kinda small considering. Panny just announced recently that they will not make any more plasmas either, so the advice to grab a VT or ZT while you can is your best bet. The prices are incredible right now too and supply is limited. If you have upgrade bug grab a 60" or 65" and call it a day for the next 5 years.

[ShockWave]

He actually doesn't have a kuro. He has a pure vision pioneer. The kuro is leaps over the pv panel. If he were to buy a used kuro he wouldn't be going backwards. If you were to do research you would see that a kuro would be many steps forward from your current panel. It all depends on your budget really. If you can afford a zt/vt, I personally would go that route. Because the set will be new, accurate colors and brighter set. If I could not afford a panny. I would definitely buy a used kuro with under 10k hours. Only buy a elite so isf could be used. I would be more them happy in either case. Yes 9g kuro is that good period!

[saprano]

In terms of PQ the kuros are still up to date. Still the reference for some. It's the reason people look for used ones. The TV is still compared to other sets in reviews too.

Either way OP, you can't go wrong with which ever one you choose.

Do you care about smart TV features?

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by ShockWave

He actually doesn't have a kuro. He has a pure vision pioneer. The kuro is leaps over the pv panel. If he were to buy a used kuro he wouldn't be going backwards. If you were to do research you would see that a kuro would be many steps forward from your current panel. It all depends on your budget really. If you can afford a zt/vt, I personally would go that route. Because the set will be new, accurate colors and brighter set. If I could not afford a panny. I would definitely buy a used kuro with under 10k hours. Only buy a elite so isf could be used. I would be more them happy in either case. Yes 9g kuro is that good period!

That was then, this is now! Regardless how good the Pioneer Kuros were, they are still old HDTVs, and not being manufactured anymore, so you are comparing old technology to new technology, which has no merit whatsoever. HDTVs has advanced significantly since Kuros were made. VCRs were good back in the early 80s too, but would you still go out and buy one, after experiencing DVD, and most of all, the blu-ray? Some people just refuse to let go of the past, and embrace the present, and the future.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Regardless how good the Pioneer Kuros were, they are still old HDTVs, and not being manufactured anymore, so you are comparing old technology to new technology, which has no merit whatsoever. HDTVs has advanced significantly since Kuros were made. VCRs were good back in the early 80s too, but would you still go out and buy one, after experiencing DVD, and most of all, the blu-ray? Some people just refuse to let go of the past, and embrace the present, and the future!

Have you ever seen a Kuro in action, with Blu-Ray? Or compared it to anything - and I mean anything - in performance?

It doesn't sound like it.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Have you ever seen a Kuro in action, with Blu-Ray? Or compared it to anything - and I mean anything - in performance?

It doesn't sound like it.

I've seen the Kuros, and blu-ray look good on any HDTV when it's properly calibrated, not just the Kuros. I have a Panasonic, and blu-ray looks fantastic on it as well.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by mrchallenge

Hi, I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-940HD 42' Plasma.

I bought it for $3300 back in early 2007. At the time, it was pretty top of the line stuff and got good reviews when it came out.

I use it primarily to watch blu rays since I don't watch alot of TV. Films look very cinematic on it.

I can't help but wonder though, the contrast ratio of my plasma is around 600:1 to 800:1. That was considered pretty high back in 2007, but is now considered pitiful compared to newer models. Even your average entry level LCD from best buy has a better contrast ratio than that.

Am I reading too much into it or is my TV a little too old and now being outperformed by newer model LEDs? Am I missing out on details that I would've gotten on a tv with a higher contrast ratio?

if you are no longer happy with the way your tv looks to you when watching movies, playing games or whatever you use it for, then it's time to start thinking about a newer one. hopefully it's because the set is failing and not just because you saw something that looked a little better so your ready to kick your old one to the curb. cause you'll be kicking a tv to the curb about every year or two at that rate.

also, if video is very important to you then yeah. video isn't that important to me. i don't mean i want to watch crap either, it's just that audio is my thing. i still have a Sony SXRD HDTV, still going strong and it will stay in place until it fails. it's a great set, but for me, despite that it's generations behind almost everything out there, it still works and it looks good to me.

i do understand the need and want to get a new set. i have check some of the newer ones out and they do look good.

ultimately, your the one that looks at it so, you really need to tell us; then you need to act on it.

best of luck buddy.

[ShockWave]

OP, there is a difference between every panel, every company, and every tech. That is a fact. Go to a dark room display and see for yourself. I feel the opinion I gave you is a solid one. But I hope the best for your hunt. If you need advice on a kuro I would be happy to help. It's definitely worth every penny, even used. I wouldn't trade any of my kuros for newer sets except a 65zt. I see differences on every set. And yes there are ones that do not look good even with blu ray IMO. Go prove it to yourself. Nobody can argue your own eyes, especially when it's your money!. Hope the best and enjoy!

[mrchallenge]

Thanks for the great advice everyone.

I'm actually not really looking for a new TV at the moment. I just wanted to find out if my current TV still holds up when compared to more modern models of similar size and price range.

From what you guys are telling, my current TV is still pretty good.

I was just worried that perhaps it was out of date considering the contrast ratio is much lower than the advertised ratios of current tvs. If newer TVs are indeed better than I would look into getting a new TV, but since my TV still seems pretty good (according to you guys), and there is nothing wrong with it, I guess I'll hold on to it and continue enjoying it.

Blu Rays for the most part look excellent on my TV and it still performs like when I first bought it. I was just wondering if maybe newer TVs were even better and it was perhaps time to get an update. But from what I've read on this thread, it seems there is still nothing wrong with my 2007 plasma (other than maybe its a bit small at 42').

[ShockWave]

Originally Posted by mrchallenge

Thanks for the great advice everyone.

I'm actually not really looking for a new TV at the moment. I just wanted to find out if my current TV still holds up when compared to more modern models of similar size and price range.

From what you guys are telling, my current TV is still pretty good.

I was just worried that perhaps it was out of date considering the contrast ratio is much lower than the advertised ratios of current tvs. If newer TVs are indeed better than I would look into getting a new TV, but since my TV still seems pretty good (according to you guys), and there is nothing wrong with it, I guess I'll hold on to it and continue enjoying it.

Blu Rays for the most part look excellent on my TV and it still performs like when I first bought it. I was just wondering if maybe newer TVs were even better and it was perhaps time to get an update. But from what I've read on this thread, it seems there is still nothing wrong with my 2007 plasma (other than maybe its a bit small at 42').

If you're happy that's all that matters in your house!

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by slimdude

I've seen the Kuros, and blu-ray look good on any HDTV when it's properly calibrated, not just the Kuros. I have a Panasonic, and blu-ray looks fantastic on it as well.

I agree with you on this. The OP's current TV should be just fine.