What "factual evidence" are we ignoring?

[GasCat]

Ok, this seems to be one of the prime ideas used to keep the red group together in their herd mentality, so I want to know.

What is the "factual evidence" being ignored on this forum by Blu-Ray owners?

Is it really us who are living in the clouds of misperception?

[EricJ]

Well, think someone eventually told them that PS3 now has a firmware update to upscale DVD's, so they've finally had to let go of that cherished 2006 favorite...

Now they're putting every one of their last-ditch hopes behind "Nyah, nyah, Blu-Ray can't do PiP yet!...Promises, promises!" as if they believe people are content with an existing format and don't want future adaptability.
Oh, the poor naive souls--And, er, people, remind yourselves just why most mainstream customers are afraid to buy hi-def yet?...

[JTK]

Originally Posted by GasCat

Ok, this seems to be one of the prime ideas used to keep the red group together in their herd mentality, so I want to know.

What is the "factual evidence" being ignored on this forum by Blu-Ray owners?

Absolutely none, and if you ask them to cite specifics, they can't do it.

Is it really us who are living in the clouds of misperception?

Nope!

[cajmoyper]

Stargate BD pq and sq suck!!! There, I said it. What good is 50 gb of space if all there is is the movie and sometimes only a DD track...Terminator 2.

[Anthony P]

What is the "factual evidence" being ignored on this forum by Blu-Ray owners?

some are paid for the BS they post and the rest are bitter morons that wasted too much money on HD DVD and now they are stuck having to push for its survival in order to have HD movies for an extra week.

[The Guardian]

You forgot the people who just hate Sony...

[BTBuck1]

here's what it comes down to in my opinion:

1) Americans love to root for the Underdog

2)It's cheap, it's always been nearly 50% less in cost to enter HDM through HDDVD at every stage of the game. Therefore you get people with small wallets but big mouths backing the format.

3) Typical way M$ generates spin and can manipulate people into following them. This is what Microsoft does best, they spin things. They hire a guy like Amir to go in and basically be all buddy buddy with members there, answering their questions and being a fluffer for the HDDVD. BD had zero insider, so it was like Mom & Pop (HDDVD) vs. Corporate conglomerate (Blu-ray). I seen this same thing happen on a car forum, two separate companies made a header for the same car, Company A was active on the boards, answering questions...playing the buddy buddy role, Company B had zero presence on the board. Despite company B's having a better product, because the Owner of Company A was constantly on the board, kissing butt to the tuners, answering questions and spinning things in his favor his product became the crowd favorite. His product was a little cheaper, about the same % as say an A30 vs. s300.

4) Early Blu-ray blunders: Blu-ray really could have had this thing over in 2006 had they been prepared. But because HDDVD was further along in their development it was a race to get their products out. HDDVD had a near 3 month head start and launched with some solid transfers of some popular titles. When Blu-ray came out, they launched alone with Samsung. Sony's player suffered delay after delay as well as the ps3 delays. Samsungs player was plagued by a Noise reduction filter activated in the firmware, that softened the picture. That coupled with some shoddy mpeg2 transfers like Hitch, House of Flying Daggers and Fifth Element (which was later remastered) Gave some serious bad press to blu-ray. Consumers were left wondering why they should pay twice as much for less quality. And at the time I couldn't blame them for their theory. HOWEVER, that all ended in about August of 2006, yet they rode it til the wheels fell off, and amazingly some still think it's how it is today, when in fact it's become a complete reversal!
With BD now having the WOW PQ & SQ on titles and HDDVD's generally being Meh in quality of late.

5) Finally those same cheap bastards will now fight to the end to defend their $200-$500 investment of an HDDVD player. Add in the hate factor for Sony by 360 fanboys who have picked up add on drives for their machines and you have a recipe for what we see today.


All in all, if you take Microsoft out of the equation, and had Blu-ray not fumbled so badly out of the gate, Blu-ray would be even further ahead today than they are now...Truth is, this thing would probably be over already. Toshiba was waiving a white flag even after the launch of their format, only after Blu-ray blew it so bad and showed their Ass did Toshiba grow a pair and decide to go all the way, that and the fact M$ decided to endorse them to try and offset any momentum ps3 would have on their 360.

[EricJ]

But people, are all you all blind to the Big Picture?:
Blu-ray may have more storage, a whopping market lead, more studios, more advertising exposure and the best technical machine on the market, but we don't have Picture-in-Picture!!
Can't you see we're all living a hopeless lie?? Ashes!...All is ashes!!

(Like the "Everybody hates Sony...Uh, don't they?...Er, you used to!... " thing, HD tends to hold on to one successful past gig like any one-hit wonder band on the fairgrounds...)

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by EricJ

But people, are all you all blind to the Big Picture?:
Blu-ray may have more storage, a whopping market lead, more studios, more advertising exposure and the best technical machine on the market, but we don't have Picture-in-Picture!!
Can't you see we're all living a hopeless lie?? Ashes!...All is ashes!!

(Like the "Everybody hates Sony...Uh, don't they?...Er, you used to!... " thing, HD tends to hold on to one successful past gig like any one-hit wonder band on the fairgrounds...)

I think the average person would rather have a player that picked up where you left off when you hit stop rather than pip to listen to some whiney director tell how he was inspired for the scene where the blah blah blah, did yadah yadah yadah.

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by GasCat

What is the "factual evidence" being ignored on this forum by Blu-Ray owners?

With respect to proprietary formats Sony can't market its way out of a paper bag. Beta? MiniDisc? ATRAC? SACD? UMD? MemoryStick? I'm sure there are a couple dozen others that I've neglected but the point remains: when Sony have their proverbial finger in a format pie the safe money backs the competition.

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

here's what it comes down to in my opinion:

1) Americans love to root for the Underdog

2)It's cheap, it's always been nearly 50% less in cost to enter HDM through HDDVD at every stage of the game. Therefore you get people with small wallets but big mouths backing the format.

3) Typical way M$ generates spin and can manipulate people into following them. This is what Microsoft does best, they spin things. They hire a guy like Amir to go in and basically be all buddy buddy with members there, answering their questions and being a fluffer for the HDDVD. BD had zero insider, so it was like Mom & Pop (HDDVD) vs. Corporate conglomerate (Blu-ray). I seen this same thing happen on a car forum, two separate companies made a header for the same car, Company A was active on the boards, answering questions...playing the buddy buddy role, Company B had zero presence on the board. Despite company B's having a better product, because the Owner of Company A was constantly on the board, kissing butt to the tuners, answering questions and spinning things in his favor his product became the crowd favorite. His product was a little cheaper, about the same % as say an A30 vs. s300.

4) Early Blu-ray blunders: Blu-ray really could have had this thing over in 2006 had they been prepared. But because HDDVD was further along in their development it was a race to get their products out. HDDVD had a near 3 month head start and launched with some solid transfers of some popular titles. When Blu-ray came out, they launched alone with Samsung. Sony's player suffered delay after delay as well as the ps3 delays. Samsungs player was plagued by a Noise reduction filter activated in the firmware, that softened the picture. That coupled with some shoddy mpeg2 transfers like Hitch, House of Flying Daggers and Fifth Element (which was later remastered) Gave some serious bad press to blu-ray. Consumers were left wondering why they should pay twice as much for less quality. And at the time I couldn't blame them for their theory. HOWEVER, that all ended in about August of 2006, yet they rode it til the wheels fell off, and amazingly some still think it's how it is today, when in fact it's become a complete reversal!
With BD now having the WOW PQ & SQ on titles and HDDVD's generally being Meh in quality of late.

5) Finally those same cheap bastards will now fight to the end to defend their $200-$500 investment of an HDDVD player. Add in the hate factor for Sony by 360 fanboys who have picked up add on drives for their machines and you have a recipe for what we see today.


All in all, if you take Microsoft out of the equation, and had Blu-ray not fumbled so badly out of the gate, Blu-ray would be even further ahead today than they are now...Truth is, this thing would probably be over already. Toshiba was waiving a white flag even after the launch of their format, only after Blu-ray blew it so bad and showed their Ass did Toshiba grow a pair and decide to go all the way, that and the fact M$ decided to endorse them to try and offset any momentum ps3 would have on their 360.

That sentence is sig worthy

[thrlride]

I've seen both Blu-ray and HD-DVD and the picture quality to my eyes are the same. My receiver doesn't do any of the new audio formats so the sound quality would be the same to me. The only thing keeping hd-dvd alive are the lower prices and their movie selection. Though the selection with blu is so much better they still have exclusives people want.

If Sony really wants to slam dunk this they need to cut the price of stand-alones to match the toshiba's and it would be over a lot quicker.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by Rob71

That sentence is sig worthy

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by thrlride

If Sony really wants to slam dunk this they need to cut the price of stand-alones to match the toshiba's and it would be over a lot quicker.

I dont think they even need to match price, i think if they come within 50% higher of the HDDVD product, that people are willing to pay more for a superior brand and product. But paying 150% higher for something that essentially does the same thing is a tough sell.

$200 HD-A2

$499 BDP-S300

IMO, the price reductions on the s300 are LONG OVERDUE. This player should be no more than $349, and if they want to move alot of them make it $299

With a $399 ps3 knocking on the doorstep, I just don't see why anyone would buy a bdp-s300 for $500 at this point.

[Thundercrash07]

^ Isn't the S300 399,- already?

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by Thundercrash07

^ Isn't the S300 399,- already?

where?

[tvted]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

With respect to proprietary formats Sony can't market its way out of a paper bag. Beta? MiniDisc? ATRAC? SACD? UMD? MemoryStick? I'm sure there are a couple dozen others that I've neglected but the point remains: when Sony have their proverbial finger in a format pie the safe money backs the competition.

You're stuck in the consumer space.

BETA and MINIDISC have been quite successful within broadcast - and dare I say at a considerably greater profit than any box sold at BB. I also ask - do you think that SONY would continue making their other formats if they were not somewhat profitable? APPLE has made a living for a lot of people while only capturing small parts of specific markets - or do you believe they sell their hardware and OS-X at a loss?

ted

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

here's what it comes down to in my opinion:

1) Americans love to root for the Underdog

Since when, in 3000 years of recorded history, has Microsoft EVER been "the Underdog"?

Even in the average public's eyes, Microsoft is not "the Underdog"...Microsoft is the national Simon Bar-Sinister.

[thrlride]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Since when, in 3000 years of recorded history, has Microsoft EVER been "the Underdog"?

Even in the average public's eyes, Microsoft is not "the Underdog"...Microsoft is the national Simon Bar-Sinister.

When I think of HD-DVD I don't think of Microsoft at all even though they are a part of it. In terms of sales they have been the underdog once blu-ray hit the market though.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Since when, in 3000 years of recorded history, has Microsoft EVER been "the Underdog"?

Even in the average public's eyes, Microsoft is not "the Underdog"...Microsoft is the national Simon Bar-Sinister.

The average public's eyes Toshiba is HDDVD, Microsoft is behind the scenes.