Why be patient?

[Prime77]

First off, I own both formats - referred to as purple I believe. I am not trolling, nor do I care to start a name-calling war. I simply have a question that I would like to have answered. If you can't do that without calling me names or questioning my motives, then please don't respond. That being said, my question is...

I've noticed that a lot of you preach patience. You say to just buy more BD discs instead of getting the HD player on the cheap because eventually those HD exclusive movies will be on BD once Blu-Ray wins the war. But if your stance was really to be patient, why did you adopt a high def format before a winner was determined?

And also, if you really want titles like Transformers, Serenity, and Heroes, is it really worth waiting (possibly) 18 months for them to be available on BD? Especially when HD players have recently been as low as $98?

Now I'll be the first to agree that the PS3 does an amazing job of upconverting standard DVD's. However, an upconverted SDVD does not look better than HD DVD. I hope we can all be in agreement there.

Please don't start a discussion about "50 is more than 30" and 1080p vs. 1080i. I'm familiar with all sides of those arguements.

Thank you for your input.

[Steverhcp02]

Originally Posted by Prime77

First off, I own both formats - referred to as purple I believe. I am not trolling, nor do I care to start a name-calling war. I simply have a question that I would like to have answered. If you can't do that without calling me names or questioning my motives, then please don't respond. That being said, my question is...

I've noticed that a lot of you preach patience. You say to just buy more BD discs instead of getting the HD player on the cheap because eventually those HD exclusive movies will be on BD once Blu-Ray wins the war. But if your stance was really to be patient, why did you adopt a high def format before a winner was determined?

And also, if you really want titles like Transformers, Serenity, and Heroes, is it really worth waiting (possibly) 18 months for them to be available on BD? Especially when HD players have recently been as low as $98?

Now I'll be the first to agree that the PS3 does an amazing job of upconverting standard DVD's. However, an upconverted SDVD does not look better than HD DVD. I hope we can all be in agreement there.

Please don't start a discussion about "50 is more than 30" and 1080p vs. 1080i. I'm familiar with all sides of those arguements.

Thank you for your input.

Just like the "I'm not racist, but...." Please. When you need to begin your thread this way its obvious.

What do you plan to accomplish? Your asking people on here the most rudimentary question about thef ormat war...just stop trying to sell HD DVD. If someone here was going to buy one, it wouldnt be because of your amateur post telling us things we already know...for knowing "both sides of the arguments" you seem to be pretty mindless when telling everyone what we alreay know about whats available on HD DVD.

You trying to start a revolution or something?, youre not going to sell anybody HD DVD with this pathetic thread. Give it up.

The patience you are trying to turn into some sly comment is taken out of context. Most people who invest in BD believe in the format, its not just about patience in waiting for a single format its patience in waiting for THE BEST format that we believe. the patience you try to speak about isnt about "waiting" for a single format or for favorite movies....its holding strong with the format we believe in.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Prime77

because eventually those HD exclusive movies will be on BD once Blu-Ray wins the war.

That's why. We want to ensure victory for the DEFINITIVE HD MEDIUM! There is no point in allowing an inferior version of High Definition to exist. There will always be plenty of great BD titles that would be added to our collections anyways that can feed our patriotism to the format until all studios make the switch to the Blu side. Going "purple" is an instant gratification, staying Blu shows some true colours and even more character.

[u_nick]

Originally Posted by Prime77

why did you adopt a high def format before a winner was determined?

Because they are THAT sure Bluray will win? They made an educated decision early on, and stuck with it. I cant imagine too many early BD adopters are sitting at home thinking "Golly, maybe I chose the wrong format... better tech specs, larger discs, better studio support, better sales, and better support from the industry... oh man, maybe thats not enough!"

And also, if you really want titles like Transformers, Serenity, and Heroes, is it really worth waiting (possibly) 18 months for them to be available on BD? Especially when HD players have recently been as low as $98?

I would say its definitely worth waiting. Just because it's 98 bucks, doesnt mean its fine to 'waste' 98 bucks on a piece of hardware that will be obsolete in 18 months.

Now I'll be the first to agree that the PS3 does an amazing job of upconverting standard DVD's. However, an upconverted SDVD does not look better than HD DVD. I hope we can all be in agreement there.

I cant imagine someone honestly saying an upconverted DVD looks just as good as an HDDVD (depending on content). Good enough to hold someone over for 18 months? Yeah, I'd be comfortable saying that.

Please don't start a discussion about "50 is more than 30" and 1080p vs. 1080i. I'm familiar with all sides of those arguements.

But you ahve to agree that those are things that DO matter. I realize that you've heard them all before, but when discussing the subject of the two formats, these ARE valid facts in the discussion that SHOULD be considered.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by Prime77

First off, I own both formats - referred to as purple I believe. I am not trolling, nor do I care to start a name-calling war. I simply have a question that I would like to have answered. If you can't do that without calling me names or questioning my motives, then please don't respond. That being said, my question is...

I've noticed that a lot of you preach patience. You say to just buy more BD discs instead of getting the HD player on the cheap because eventually those HD exclusive movies will be on BD once Blu-Ray wins the war. But if your stance was really to be patient, why did you adopt a high def format before a winner was determined?

And also, if you really want titles like Transformers, Serenity, and Heroes, is it really worth waiting (possibly) 18 months for them to be available on BD? Especially when HD players have recently been as low as $98?

Now I'll be the first to agree that the PS3 does an amazing job of upconverting standard DVD's. However, an upconverted SDVD does not look better than HD DVD. I hope we can all be in agreement there.

Please don't start a discussion about "50 is more than 30" and 1080p vs. 1080i. I'm familiar with all sides of those arguements.

Thank you for your input.

I bought into BD for all the reasons you don't want to talk about. Coincidence - I think not.

[Steverhcp02]

Originally Posted by u_nick

But you ahve to agree that those are things that DO matter. I realize that you've heard them all before, but when discussing the subject of the two formats, these ARE valid facts in the discussion that SHOULD be considered.

"please, convince me of your viewpoint but dont use any strengths in your argument....i betcha i win"

[KidOmega123]

I can sum up my take personal take on the subject of "being patient"...this is a repost of something I wrote in a different thread and also a post that a another member added in addition to mine:

Originally Posted by KidOmega123
The only real argument I keep hearing from people who have gone neutral is that they're "movie lovers" that have to have their favorite movies NOW.

Becaue they live in the NOW and succumb to the thralls of instant gratification. They had to have Transformers NOW, They had to have Batman Begins NOW. You know what? I saw Batman Begins three times while it was in the theatres. I saw it again several times on DVD. And several times again on cable television. I'm pretty sure I can wait awhile until it finally comes to Blu Ray. It's not like I'm gonna curl up and die if I dont get my way NOW.

And you know what? when it DOES come to Blu Ray (and mark my words, it will), it'll be an even better release than it's HD DVD counterpart. Patience is a virtue. It reaps awesome rewards.

And here's something else to think about......you know all those lovely catalogue titles that we all want so badly?

Jurassic Park
Aliens
Star Wars
Indiana Jones
Lord of the Rings
etc, etc, etc.

They're not coming anytime soon. You wanna know why? Because those filmakers are waiting until there's a clear indication of which format will be around for the long haul. So you may THINK that having both formats is nothing but beneficial to you. But you are wrong because:

A) You're buying into inferior technology

B) You're your robbing yourself (and everybody else, for that matter) of the things we really want ( *chough* Star Wars *cough*).

So enjoy your Transformers with compressed audio. I think I'll wait for the real thing.....KTHANKBYE


Originally Posted By foots

At least there are a few people out there who get it. Consumers hold all the power but give it all away by having ZERO SELF CONTROL. Therefore they fall prey to perceived value in a second player that should not be necessary at all.

I don't care how happy you are with being neutral the ideal isn't to have two formats. If people accept two formats there is nothing to prevent each studio from trying to have its own proprietary format the next time around. Sounds crazy huh? There will be people who buy into it though so they can be called a movie lover and an enthusiast.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Prime77

And also, if you really want titles like Transformers, Serenity, and Heroes, is it really worth waiting (possibly) 18 months for them to be available on BD? Especially when HD players have recently been as low as $98?

Because, we already spent our money on the best players on the market and shouldn't have to spend more on hardware to get the material we want (Transformers, Serenity, and Heroes) in anything but AVC with Lossless PCM audio. We want those titles in a quality that is superior to their current release versions, and only Blu-ray can offer that!

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by Prime77

But if your stance was really to be patient, why did you adopt a high def format before a winner was determined?

Simply because Blu-ray is the format that should win due to being technologically better, with a better overall package (studios, manufacturers, software firms, etc.) backing it.

[Anthony P]

because the impatient person is the person that blows his pay check in one day and is hungry for the next week (or two or month depending how often he gets paid)

The issue is that the only way to have titles is for a format to be mainstream. The only way for HD media to become mainstream is for there to be one format. Most people don't want to buy a format for only some titles and most people don't want to spend on two formats. The patience has nothing to do with HD DVD but BD. It is like the old riddle, two people you care about are trapped in a burning building you can only save one, what do you do? If you are indecisive or if you try to help both all you end up with is saving neither. The faster one goes away the better.

Now why is that HD DVD? simply for two reasons (that I won't delve into)
1) it is losing
2) it is less preferment

so in essence it is not patience like abstinence, but patience in the sense of not doing something rash

the other thing is that 100$ is not that much but it is a few movies. Why spend that 100$ plus the price of a few movies on a useless device when you could spend it on some movies and have many hours of entertainment?

[dpomp]

people like this should start their own purple forum instead of filling our forum with this nonsense. I swear I read about 20 of these threads a day!

[U4K61]

Blu ray is "a lot like investing successfully in the stock market. If your hope is to make a fortune in a day, you're not going to be successful" John C. Maxwell. I gather that rome was not built in a day eather. The rest of us here know that - we will stay to corse. Time is on our side.

[Anthony P]

Blu ray is "a lot like investing successfully in the stock market. If your hope is to make a fortune in a day, you're not going to be successful" John C. Maxwell. I gather that rome was not built in a day eather. The rest of us here know that - we will stay to corse. Time is on our side.

lol reminds me of this joke

Speaking of the ca.2000 stock market crash....

If you had purchased $1000 of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be
worth $49.
If you had purchased Enron stock, you would have $16.50 left.
If you had purchased WorldCom stock, you would now be holding less than
$5 of your original $1000.
On the other hand, if you had purchased $1000 of beer (the beverage, not
the company stock), had drunk it all and had turned in the empty cans for
their 5-cent deposit, you would now have $107.

I see these people being the type burned during that time "hey Nortel went from 200$ to 20$ it is the time to buy it is a great deal, why be patient.

[Prime77]

Thank you all for your feedback. Everyone was great except for Steverhcp02, who did exactly what I asked people not to do. By no means with this any attempt to sell HD DVD. And I initially posted that disclaimer at the beginning of the thread specifically because of people like Steverhcp02.

Fourteen months ago, my favorite movie (Serenity) was only on HD, HD DVD was half the price, blu-ray sucked (the initial BD release had a lot of problems, but have since been corrected), and the HD-A1 had received stellar reviews.

I appreciate your loyalty to the format and for your sake, I hope you get the HD exclusives on BD soon enough. Thanks again for your input.

[J6P]

I'm very lucky to live within walking distance of one of the most unbelievable video stores in America, Scarecrow Video. It's nothing like a national chain in there. It's not rows and rows and rows of identical floor-to-ceiling facings of Transformers, or Pirates 3, or whatever mega blockbuster just hit the street. It is a mammoth store to be sure, but instead of hundreds of copies of a few movies, they have a few copies of everything. Everything ever. You can wander in there for hours just reading the spines. You can walk in with any bizarre, rare, I-saw-it-once-but-I-can't-remember-the-name request and they will not only know what you're thinking of, they probably have it.

So into this store I walk in December of 2002 to do something I had been anticipating for years: Rent a copy of The King Of Comedy (1983), one of my very favorite Martin Scorsese movies. Why did I wait so long to pick up a movie from '83? Because it hadn't been available until that day. Nearly six years into the lifespan of DVD! It annoyed and infuriated me that the entire catalog of one of our most revered, influential directors could not even be viewed on the mainstay format.

That's the problem, as has been stated already in this thread. Adoption. There are many, many films that I covet on HD DVD. Films that I watch all the time, like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and The Big Lebowski. Tons of rewatchability there for me, and I have money to blow on a Toshiba player...but I just can't do it. Because I know from experience that once we get past this ridiculous format quagmire, we still have a long road before any deep catalog releases become commonplace.

I want the same saturation to occur in the "next gen" optical storage media that finally, finally occurred for the last gen. I want all of the Criterion titles. I want the '40s and '50s MGM catalog. I want all of Woody Allen's work, and Hitchcock's, and David Lean's, and on and on and on. I just want to be able to assume that everything is available on HD media.

Different people have different tolerances when it comes to working toward a collective goal, or thinking several steps down the road and knowing what it takes to get there. I know, as I sit in traffic, that plenty of those SUVs and sports cars with smoked glass tearing past me in the carpool lane don't have but one person in them! Nobody can see in, so just go for it -- like the rest of us didn't think of that. But I don't do that. Is it better to be the one racing along in the carpool lane? Sure it is. But I know it's easier to get us all where we’re going if we don't game the system. Some people don't care. I do.

I want to be able to walk into Scarecrow and know every title I can think of is on the shelf, in High Definition. The only way to accomplish that is with one format, and I just can't do anything personally to prolong us getting to mass adoption.

Even though I'd love nothing more than to stretch out on the couch and watch Walter, Donnie and The Dude tonight, I won't. Patience.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Steverhcp02

The patience you are trying to turn into some sly comment is taken out of context. Most people who invest in BD believe in the format, its not just about patience in waiting for a single format its patience in waiting for THE BEST format that we believe. the patience you try to speak about isnt about "waiting" for a single format or for favorite movies....its holding strong with the format we believe in.

The "patience" we're talking about is exactly what Toshiba and HD are obsessed with (to the exclusion of all other goals)--Black Friday/Christmas fourth-quarter sales '07.

They know that's the one last Gettysburg, Yorktown, Iwo Jima and Normandy that could literally break the battle overnight if they slip, and they have no more ambition to win the War, just the Battle.
More importantly, they know that every neutral tech-news headline will be proclaiming a winner, and with it goes Warner's neutrality, more player companies will hop on with Blu instead of sitting the fence, and tech headlines about a Blu win will become mainstream headlines about Blu winning, and the "Cheap-player Joe" public they had been counting on will now have been "told" who won.
We're looking forward to Q4 sales just for a little instant gratification, They are seeing mortality stare them in the face, and hear the clock tick. All their longterm ambitions for 2008 evaporated a long time ago.

That's probably why you've noticed a more focused theme to the "infiltrator" troll posts lately:
- "Aw, admit it, you'd like a cheap A2 player...Wouldn't you?...Just a little one?...It wouldn't hurt anybody!... "
- "Now, now, two formats can get along, can't they?...I mean, wouldn't it be nice to watch Batman?"
And of course,
- "Aren't you tired of waiting for PiP?--It's never going to come, you know!...Sony's just making you wait!"

Now this latter one probably identifies the confusion that led to the OP's troll post:
When we say "patience", they mistakenly think we mean "Gosh, someday, we'll have 1.1 and be just like them! "
When, in fact, it's usually because it's only Nov. 5, we have Black Friday circled in red on our calendar, and we're counting the minutes to a moment of future history has all but actually happened: "18 days, 16 hours and forty-five minutes till we win Armageddon, lalala... "
So, that's what we mean by "Patience": "Now, now, it's only Monday--I know we want to, but it won't help us in the big picture if we crush them just yet...We have a date circled; let's let their faith in the anonymous public cruelly disillusion and betray them first, and THEN we can rush in from the rear and slaughter them like sheep! The news cameras will be there to cover it! "

(Hope that helps with any othe "infiltration" strategies--
Oh, and when we get that pompous "Thank you for participating in my Serious Enlightening Discussion like civilized people" routine, there's one of the most narcissistic troll-outings that goes back to the 90's... "

[lch]

so what should i do with the hd-dvd movie disc when toshiba finally throw in the towel ?
i won't be able to buy any player to play them when my player break down then and so i have to double-dip and get the bd version again ?