Life After Pi (DOC on how bad VFX industry is)

[space2001]

LIFE AFTER PI (Official) - YouTube

As a VFX artist it hurts.

[kong73]

Thank for the post... I'll go to youtube to watch. Looks good.

[cinemaphile]

This is part of a larger film industry doc:

"This is only the first chapter of an upcoming feature-length documentary “Hollywood Ending,” that delves into the larger, complex challenges facing the US Film Industry and the many professionals working within it, whose fates and livelihood are intertwined."

[Elandyll]

Great doc ... had seriously no idea it was this bad.

[cinemaphile]

It's an interesting documentary, and they make a few good points. Yes, studios need to look at how they pay for FX, especially since they rely so heavily on them, and the whole subsidies thing pulling work away is a problem. But it's no different than the outsourcing of every other industry in the country, and this combined with the fact that you're in a crowded artistic field makes it even more difficult to survive.

But while I understand there are some legitimate problems and understand their struggles, the reality is these people chose to pursue careers as artists, and as with any artistic career, most people don't make it or can't stay in it for the long run. Sure everyone would like to do art and fun stuff for a career, but most people have to give up their dream job and get other "real" jobs. It's no different than any other "art" career - FX, acting, writing, singing, etc....

And like any industry, especially one in arts & entertainment, it's an overcrowded one. There are too many people wanting not enough jobs.
They said it themselves in the documentary: There are hundreds of VFX companies bidding for work from only a handful of movie studios. So basically they've chosen a field that is overcrowded with people and companies who want to do this for a living. A perfect example is the number of videogame companies that go out of business. It's the reality that not all can survive.

Will the VFX industry go "extinct" as they try to say at the end? No way. As long as there are films to be made, there will be VFX companies working on them. But not every company can survive. It's harsh, but it's also true.

[Megalith]

Hard for me to feel bad about very talented people who obviously got paid well and have skills that are easily transferable.

[cinemaphile]

Originally Posted by Megalith

Hard for me to feel bad about very talented people who obviously got paid well and have skills that are easily transferable.

Well to be fair, they didnt get paid for several (100+ hour) weeks work in the end.

[chris_sc77]

I would feel worse for them if they didnt do one of the most eye rolling effects I have ever seen in a film (when the Pi guy sees his mom in the stars or sea and we zoom in her dot on her head. Ugh.)

[duggie walker]

It's an interesting piece and touching on a personal level, of course. And I can see why they think tax breaks in other countries are creating an unfair environment.

That said, the reason those tax breaks exist is because - without them - very few countries would be able to provide employment for any of their technicians, such is the almost total dominance of film production and distribution by the US.

So my sympathies ran dry fairly quickly, to be honest. Anyone wanting to work in film or TV is absolutely blessed to live in America. At least there's a better than good chance the staff of Rhythm and Hues will get another job in the industry. And we have it pretty good in the UK too compared to most other countries, whose film production is close to zero.

[bigbadwoppet]

Originally Posted by Megalith

Hard for me to feel bad about very talented people who obviously got paid well and have skills that are easily transferable.

Same with me. The documentary paints computer programmers as if they were victims. What about the special effects artists who became redundant when all went digital? I don't see anybody in the whole thirty minutes acknowleging them in any way. Because of computer effects, the film industry is hardly about making films anymore. It's easier because you don't need to build something with your own hands anymore, so you should expect more people willing to do the same you do cheaper. In essence, you create the problem you're complaining about.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by bigbadwoppet

Same with me. The documentary paints computer programmers as if they were victims. What about the special effects artists who became redundant when all went digital? I don't see anybody in the whole thirty minutes acknowleging them in any way. Because of computer effects, the film industry is hardly about making films anymore. It's easier because you don't need to build something with your own hands anymore, so you should expect more people willing to do the same you do cheaper. In essence, you create the problem you're complaining about.

The business model needs to change. VFX studios need to be paid by the hour for their work, not for a lump sum bid. Like the documentay suggests, bidding to build a house or skyscraper is different because you have a blue print and you know precisely the materials you need, amount of man power it's going to take, etc. VFX work is much more fluid and it's impossible to give an exact cost estimate. Also the government needs to stop with the tax subsidies for operations who do the work in Canada. That makes zero sense to me!

What I cannot understand is for a development company as talented as Rhythm and Hughes was, why didn't a major studio acquire them for themselves?

[space2001]

I work in the industry and there are worse things going on that are not brought up in this Documentary.

First off Rythm and Hues is a great company and they lasted this long because of great leadership.

A lot of vfx houses are not like this. These are the houses that underbid like crazy to get the job, then threaten employees that if they want to keep working here they better put in more hours.

Since it is all contract work from Job to Job the employer can get away with this. They just wont renew the contract with the employee.

Is this Field over crowded.Yes and No. For how much work now these day that go into building VFX shots. Every movie even comedies require vfx.

The main problem as described in the video is there is no clear vision. You are bidding on a temporary blueprint, that gets changed throughout the movie process.

I have been on set multiple times and the director said this is not going to work and we will fix in post, but no extra money gets allocated to it.

The industry has to change big time.

[space2001]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

The business model needs to change. VFX studios need to be paid by the hour for their work, not for a lump sum bid. Like the documentay suggests, bidding to build a house or skyscraper is different because you have a blue print and you know precisely the materials you need, amount of man power it's going to take, etc. VFX work is much more fluid and it's impossible to give an exact cost estimate. Also the government needs to stop with the tax subsidies for operations who do the work in Canada. That makes zero sense to me!

What I cannot understand is for a development company as talented as Rhythm and Hughes was, why didn't a major studio acquire them for themselves?

Tax subsides are fine, they are just going to the wrong people. Instead of going to the Studio it should go to the VFX house.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by bigbadwoppet

Same with me. The documentary paints computer programmers as if they were victims. What about the special effects artists who became redundant when all went digital? I don't see anybody in the whole thirty minutes acknowleging them in any way. Because of computer effects, the film industry is hardly about making films anymore. It's easier because you don't need to build something with your own hands anymore, so you should expect more people willing to do the same you do cheaper. In essence, you create the problem you're complaining about.

I'm one of those and guess what ? Most of us retrained to work with computers. You don't really think we all just laid down and died or went to work for Burger King instead, do you ? We also aren't "computer programmers". We don't just punch in a bunch of numbers, it takes a lot of the same skills of those needed for physical effects, like being able to animate, draw, paint or sculpt. So the artisitic skills we have already come in useful with computers as well.

Nobody gets into this industry to get rich, but we also don't get into this industry to get exploited or have our businesses go bankrupt. So many films are now sold on their effects rather than star power, but most of us make a modest wage compared to the names on the posters. Many of us tend to be freelance, so we don't always work and we can go through long spells without earning any money, so that is also offset by out wages. It's a very competitive industry and its getting more so. We often don't get paid for overtime and most of us have found ourselves working weekends for weeks and spells of days when we work round the clock to meet deadlines because productions want everything as cheap as possible. They are willing to spend money on all sorts of things, but when it comes to effects, people really get squeezed for all they are worth. I know quite a few people who have left the industry and jobs they once loved, because they are burnt out.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

I'm one of those and guess what ? Most of us retrained to work with computers. You don't really think we all just laid down and died or went to work for Burger King instead, do you ? We also aren't "computer programmers". We don't just punch a bunch of numbers in, it takes a lot of the same skills of those needed for physical effects, like animation or the ability to paint or sculpt. So those skills we had already come in useful with computers as well.

Nobody gets into this industry to get rich, but we also don't get into this industry to get exploited or have our businesses go bankrupt. So many films are now sold by their effects rather than star power, but most of us make a modest wage compared to the names on the posters. Many of us tend to be freelance, so we don't always work and we can go through long spells without earning any money, so that is also offset by out wages. It's a very competitive industry and its getting more so. We often don't get paid for overtime and most of us have found ourselves working weekends for weeks and spells of days when we work round the clock to meet deadlines because productions want everything as cheap as possible. They are willing to spend money on all sorts of things, but when it comes to effects, people really get squeezed for all they are worth. I know quite a few people who have left the industry and jobs they once loved, because they are burnt out.

Makes sense. I imagine that the gaming industry is going through much the same thing, especially what you said in your last sentence.

What I cannot understand is why don't the VFX industry come together and unionize? Considering how dependent movies are now on VFX, I would think VFX companies would hold a lot of leverage in this regard against movie studios.

Besides VFX, I also think stunt men (and women) are incredibly undervalued in the movie industry considering the great risk they put themselves in! They should be paid more! Also why isn't there an Oscar for best stunt work? If there's one for sound editing there absolutely should be one for best stunt work!

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Makes sense. I imagine that the gaming industry is going through much the same thing, especially what you said in your last sentence.

Yes, I think its similar, though I never worked in gaming.