Quirke (Gabriel Byrne) -- Another UK series released in Germany and not the UK

[McCrutchy]

You know, I'm starting to get pissed off, just a bit.

I get that the UK wants stuff cheap, and that that means they get screwed over on releases from the US majors. That's not good, but at least you can pick up the identical disc in Europe.

But there is no excuse for the lack of UK TV on Blu-ray, especially when it is coming is Germany. We have seen it before with Luther, and now Quirke is another victim of this disrespect. As is Dominic Cooper's Fleming, which went DVD-only in the UK, but will also be coming on Blu-ray from Polyband in Germany!

Make no mistake, I am not saying the German release shouldn't happen--I will be importing the release, as it appears to be uncut--and more power to Germany, as they grow the booming German Blu-ray market, but the BBC especially need to take the reigns and release popular UK TV on Blu-ray...in the UK.

Until then, danke, Germany.



P.S. At current prices, the German Blu-ray costs all of €27 (£21.50) shipped to the UK, versus £15.00 for the UK DVD. A UK BD would be what? £20? Mind-boggling to think that there are those who would pay £15 for DVD, but not give just £5 more for a Blu-ray, especially when 2entertain always does a cracking job on them.

[McCrutchy]

So, I'm guessing this isn't very popular show? Strange, as it seems to have good-to-excellent reviews, even with the broadcast volume fiasco.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

P.S. At current prices, the German Blu-ray costs all of €27 (£21.50) shipped to the UK, versus £15.00 for the UK DVD. A UK BD would be what? £20? Mind-boggling to think that there are those who would pay £15 for DVD, but not give just £5 more for a Blu-ray, especially when 2entertain always does a cracking job on them.

Plus whatever it costs for the blu-ray player, and you're ignoring the fact that many people are technologically less capable and the idea of getting used to something new that seems ultimately pointless when DVD works so well (in their eyes, not my own), just seems silly...

Also, TV on blu-ray doesn't have a good supermarket footprint in the UK, you might see the odd HBO series (generally only Game of Thrones and Band of Brothers), but certainly not something like this, I doubt you'd even find a big show like Sherlock or Doctor Who on supermarket shelves...

[FilmFanSam]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Plus whatever it costs for the blu-ray player, and you're ignoring the fact that many people are technologically less capable and the idea of getting used to something new that seems ultimately pointless when DVD works so well (in their eyes, not my own), just seems silly...

Also, TV on blu-ray doesn't have a good supermarket footprint in the UK, you might see the odd HBO series (generally only Game of Thrones and Band of Brothers), but certainly not something like this, I doubt you'd even find a big show like Sherlock or Doctor Who on supermarket shelves...

Blu-ray players are now dirt cheap to buy.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by FilmFanSam

Blu-ray players are now dirt cheap to buy.

Yes, but does your average Tom, Dick and Harry know that, and will they be happy when it stops being updated and can no longer play new release discs?

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Also, TV on blu-ray doesn't have a good supermarket footprint in the UK, you might see the odd HBO series (generally only Game of Thrones and Band of Brothers), but certainly not something like this, I doubt you'd even find a big show like Sherlock or Doctor Who on supermarket shelves...

And the reason for that is the severe lack of UK TV releases in the first place. You can't expect big sales in a market (UK TV on Blu-ray in UK) that hardly exists. With Sony slashing licensing fees, and UK independents putting out more movies now than ever before on Blu-ray, you would think the nation's largest broadcaster would be willing to put its flagship releases out on the format. Clearly, the Germans want it in HD, so it doesn't make sense to think that the home audience deserves any less.

On the other hand, if I were the BBC, I would be embarrassed to see another country releasing my properties in superior editions abroad.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

And the reason for that is the severe lack of UK TV releases in the first place. You can't expect big sales in a market (UK TV on Blu-ray in UK) that hardly exists. With Sony slashing licensing fees, and UK independents putting out more movies now than ever before on Blu-ray, you would think the nation's largest broadcaster would be willing to put its flagship releases out on the format. Clearly, the Germans want it in HD, so it doesn't make sense to think that the home audience deserves any less.

On the other hand, if I were the BBC, I would be embarrassed to see another country releasing my properties in superior editions abroad.

One could argue that poor sales on UK TV blu-rays are responsible for the lack of shelf space. It's really just a cycle...

As I understand it Sony Pictures UK won't licence anything to another home media business, so that point is moot.

Nation's largest broadcaster? Try world's largest broadcaster...

BBC Worldwide is a wholly owned editorially independent subsidiary, tasked with acting in the BBC's commercial best interests. The BBC has no say in it's releases, and BBCW certainly won't do anything for prestige if they don't think it's financially viable. (As they shouldn't, their job is to try and build on the TV licence, not squander money on unpopular blu-ray releases.)

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

One could argue that poor sales on UK TV blu-rays are responsible for the lack of shelf space. It's really just a cycle...

As I understand it Sony Pictures UK won't licence anything to another home media business, so that point is moot.

Nation's largest broadcaster? Try world's largest broadcaster...

BBC Worldwide is a wholly owned editorially independent subsidiary, tasked with acting in the BBC's commercial best interests. The BBC has no say in it's releases, and BBCW certainly won't do anything for prestige if they don't think it's financially viable. (As they shouldn't, their job is to try and build on the TV licence, not squander money on unpopular blu-ray releases.)

Where did Sony Pictures cone from? I said Sony slashed fees (i.e. royalties, for Blu-ray authoring in the UK) which was my understanding from the Network thread. Nothing to do with SPHE UK and their films...

As to everything else, I will say it does amaze me how members of a Blu-ray forum waste perfectly good words on building arguments against more Blu-ray releases. Again, my understanding is that the series is popular, and the DVD set has very positive reviews. Since HD masters, BBFC costs, and DVD authoring and packaging are all being paid for, would the additional cost for Blu-ray for popular series really break the bank for the BBC, especially in light of what Sony has done?

I think not.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

As to everything else, I will say it does amaze me how members of a Blu-ray forum waste perfectly good words on building arguments against more Blu-ray releases. Again, my understanding is that the series is popular, and the DVD set has very positive reviews. Since HD masters, BBFC costs, and DVD authoring and packaging are all being paid for, would the additional cost for Blu-ray for popular series really break the bank for the BBC, especially in light of what Sony has done?

I think not.

Your original comment about Sony was incredibly vague, I incorrectly assumed you meant licensing films rather than technology.

Whether it breaks the bank or not is irrelevant, BBC Worldwide's job is to be ruthlessly commercial, they exist purely to make money not friends or fans. If they cannot justify the extra expense with a lot more sales (or because the percentage of blu-ray sales is enough to justify the time/expense), they won't and arguably can't do it.

There's a difference between arguing against a blu-ray release and understanding why one hasn't happened.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Your original comment about Sony was incredibly vague, I incorrectly assumed you meant licensing films rather than technology.

Whether it breaks the bank or not is irrelevant, BBC Worldwide's job is to be ruthlessly commercial, they exist purely to make money not friends or fans. If they cannot justify the extra expense with a lot more sales (or because the percentage of blu-ray sales is enough to justify the time/expense), they won't and arguably can't do it.

There's a difference between arguing against a blu-ray release and understanding why one hasn't happened.

And you have just as much idea why one has not happened as I do. You and I can only hypothesize. I do find it interesting though, that only with Blu-ray releases, do people, even on an enthusiast forum, come out with all sorts of justifications for not releasing on Blu-ray.

Again, this isn't limited to one program, we are seeing it happen more and more. BBC programs are showing up in the US, Japan, and particularly, in Germany, yet they continue to neglect to release these programs in the UK.

Yes, the UK Blu-ray market is much smaller than those other countries, but that's the home base for most of these productions, and the natural thought is that the most sales for a UK program will come from the UK.

I'm not asking the BBC to be my friend, and I'm not blind to the fact that Blu-ray releases are more expensive to produce. But I think this is far more about ignorance of the market than anything else. It's preposterous, for example, to think that Luther would not have sold on Blu-ray. The BBC missed a prime opportunity to put out a Series 1-3 box set last year, at arguably the height of Idris Elba's popularity. I've also never understood why the Top Gear series are not released, either.

It's gotten to the point, even in the UK, where other, often smaller labels are picking up the slack where they can, surely where co-productions mean that other labels are responsible for DVD and Blu-ray releases of BBC TV material. Look at the releases of Mrs. Brown's Boys from Universal UK (admittedly a large company, but also with the widest variety of UK Blu-ray releases), or the BBC TV releases from Acorn (Broadchurch, The Fall) or Spirit Entertainment (Father Brown). If Blu-ray releases are viable on a smaller scale for these UK companies, then the BBC should be capable of more at home. They don't even release the French series they air from Canal (Spiral), while Canal's similar French crime series Braquo gets UK Blu-ray releases from Arrow, who are still a much smaller company than the BBC, and who manage dozens of UK Blu-ray releases of films as well.

The current mantra from the BBC would seem to be: If it's nature, or it's effects-driven, or if it's Sherlock, release it on Blu-ray. Otherwise, don't bother.

Again, as you say, BBC Worldwide is not exactly a minor player in the entertainment industry, and knowing that, do we really think a few more UK Blu-ray releases per year are going to hurt their bottom line? Doubtful.

Yet I'm sure, thanks to their efforts, that most people, and even most retailers, believe that when a TV series come out, it is coming out on DVD only. I'm sure that, living in the UK, you notice the shop shelves, and I'm sure most dual-format BBC TV releases are stocked on DVD only. But I'm also sure, if you ask any employee in these shops about a Blu-ray version, they will probably have no idea if one exists or not, or even if they ever carry it.

This exact scenario happens all the time in American shops, where employees will express surprise when I tell them that a title was indeed released on Blu-ray.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

It's gotten to the point, even in the UK, where other, often smaller labels are picking up the slack where they can, surely where co-productions mean that other labels are responsible for DVD and Blu-ray releases of BBC TV material. Look at the releases of Mrs. Brown's Boys from Universal UK (admittedly a large company, but also with the widest variety of UK Blu-ray releases), or the BBC TV releases from Acorn (Broadchurch, The Fall) or Spirit Entertainment (Father Brown). If Blu-ray releases are viable on a smaller scale for these UK companies, then the BBC should be capable of more at home. They don't even release the French series they air from Canal (Spiral), while Canal's similar French crime series Braquo gets UK Blu-ray releases from Arrow, who are still a much smaller company than the BBC, and who manage dozens of UK Blu-ray releases of films as well.

The current mantra from the BBC would seem to be: If it's nature, or it's effects-driven, or if it's Sherlock, release it on Blu-ray. Otherwise, don't bother.

Some of those examples are unfair, Arrow charge a lot for their blu-ray releases, and they only come down in price during clearances, if BBCW charged those kinds of prices shit would hit the fan and the papers would accuse them of blatant profiteering for content people "have already paid for", where as BBCW's price points are more reasonable.

Acorn only released Broadchurch several months after the DVD release, as demand had been proven, much to the annoyance of some on this forum, despite the fact the series was a sleeper hit, and by the time Acorn realised this it was probably too late to do anything...

One would also note, Sherlock, Mrs. Brown's Boys and Broadchurch all achieve very high ratings for their respective networks, The Fall got high ratings for it's respective networks. Quirke did alright, similar viewership figures to The Fall, but as a miniseries perhaps alright wasn't good enough...

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Some of those examples are unfair, Arrow charge a lot for their blu-ray releases, and they only come down in price during clearances, if BBCW charged those kinds of prices shit would hit the fan and the papers would accuse them of blatant profiteering for content people "have already paid for", where as BBCW's price points are more reasonable.

Acorn only released Broadchurch several months after the DVD release, as demand had been proven, much to the annoyance of some on this forum, despite the fact the series was a sleeper hit, and by the time Acorn realised this it was probably too late to do anything...

One would also note, Sherlock, Mrs. Brown's Boys and Broadchurch all achieve very high ratings for their respective networks, The Fall got high ratings for it's respective networks. Quirke did alright, similar viewership figures to The Fall, but as a miniseries perhaps alright wasn't good enough...

I wouldn't say it's unfair necessarily. BBC releases often seem to approach £20 or more initially, which is usually right around what Arrow charge for a similar amount of programming. The difference is that Arrow's releases stay expensive for much longer, and BBC releases tend to drop significantly in price and stay inexpensive afterwards. That's about what one would expect when comparing releases from small labels, with those from one of the nation's largest.

The Broadchurch release is rather telling, though. I remember how many people were upset, because they had bought the DVD assuming there would be no Blu-ray. After all, Acorn releases popular series like the seventh series of Foyle's War on DVD-only in the UK.

And matters of ratings don't explain why a series like Luther or Happy Valley go unreleased on Blu-ray, and why a series like Top Gear only gets specials released (though perhaps there is an unrelated reason for that). In general, it seems like most adult-oriented content (not that Top Gear is adult-oriented) is skipped over, because the BBC must think that Blu-ray is only for hip, young series, like In the Flesh.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

I wouldn't say it's unfair necessarily. BBC releases often seem to approach £20 or more initially, which is usually right around what Arrow charge for a similar amount of programming. The difference is that Arrow's releases stay expensive for much longer, and BBC releases tend to drop significantly in price and stay inexpensive afterwards. That's about what one would expect when comparing releases from small labels, with those from one of the nation's largest.

The Broadchurch release is rather telling, though. I remember how many people were upset, because they had bought the DVD assuming there would be no Blu-ray. After all, Acorn releases popular series like the seventh series of Foyle's War on DVD-only in the UK.

And matters of ratings don't explain why a series like Luther or Happy Valley go unreleased on Blu-ray, and why a series like Top Gear only gets specials released (though perhaps there is an unrelated reason for that). In general, it seems like most adult-oriented content (not that Top Gear is adult-oriented) is skipped over, because the BBC must think that Blu-ray is only for hip, young series, like In the Flesh.

The first series of In The Flesh was excellent, I have the second banked up ready to watch. And it's an 18 rated BAFTA winning show, so perhaps more "adult orientated" than you think...

And the BBC have released the original House of Cards Trilogy on blu-ray, I'm not even sure that was "hip and young" in it's day, never mind now...

[McCrutchy]

The back cover is now up at Amazon.de:

Note that the German release will include English audio and English subtitles.

[Funktion]

If this release is indeed uncut, I will be picking it up.

And in other news, another BBC Show, Merlin, is getting a big boxset in the US with all seasons included. So far, no release in the UK was announced, so it seems it will be one more Blu-Ray release that won't make to its country of origin (so many examples: Hours: Series Two was released on BD in the US, unlike the UK; ...).

[Erasmus Craven]

Please be aware that Polyband releases, although offering English audio and subs, usually have German onscreen text (i.e. Sherlock: all onscreen text like phone messages or Sherlock's derivations/conclusions/thoughts will be in German only). I've not seen this particular show and thus don't know how much of an issue it would be in this case - just a heads up for Polyband releases in general.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Erasmus Craven

Please be aware that Polyband releases, although offering English audio and subs, usually have German onscreen text (i.e. Sherlock: all onscreen text like phone messages or Sherlock's derivations/conclusions/thoughts will be in German only). I've not seen this particular show and thus don't know how much of an issue it would be in this case - just a heads up for Polyband releases in general.

Thanks for the heads up. I doubt it will be much of a problem here. A series like Sherlock is clearly worth localizing in European markets, but this show is considerably smaller, so I wouldn't be surprised if nothing is changed.

Either way, being in full 1080/50i with lossless audio easily trumps a German title or two. Of course, I'd snap up a domestic release, but I doubt that would happen, after the fact and all.

[McCrutchy]

The German BD set has just dropped to €20,99 on Amazon.de in advance of its release tomorrow.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It's not just TV shows McCrutchy but the German market also has several films that I would like that have still not made it with a UK release.

Shadow of the Vampire, Perfume: The Story Of A Murderer to name but two. Bright Star I eventually bought from Amazon.fr. It is all rather disappointing.

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

It's not just TV shows McCrutchy but the German market also has several films that I would like that have still not made it with a UK release.

Shadow of the Vampire, Perfume: The Story Of A Murderer to name but two. Bright Star I eventually bought from Amazon.fr. It is all rather disappointing.

Why not import them from Germany, instead of waiting for a UK release that probably won't happen? You will find that most German releases are relatively inexpensive, and more and more releases are fully English friendly, including not only English audio, but also English subtitles, and English menus.

The country where I bought most releases from this year has been Germany.
It helps that Amazon.co.uk started to charge me ridiculous amounts for shipping, but the German market is a paradise for fans of obscure films, or 70's/80's action/sci-fi/exploitation.

Just recently I purchased:
-Mad Dog and Glory (unavailable anywhere else)
-Death Becomes Her (unavailable anywhere else)
-Odd Thomas (DVD only in the UK, and while there are other BD releases (such as a US release) without any special features, the German release has several special features unavailable elsewhere)

A few other examples:
-Howard the Duck (unavailable anywhere else)
-Small Soldiers (unavailable anywhere else)
-Bedazzled (1967) (unavailable anywhere else)
-Ghost World (unavailable anywhere else)