More uninformed people spewing crap

[phranctoast]

http://www.igniq.com/2006/09/ps3s-bl...d-to-fail.html

Sony’s PlayStation 3 has already taken a major hit, and now the Hollywood movie studios are lining up to give it a big kick while it’s down.

The president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment has come out in favor of Microsoft’s backed HD-DVD format rather than Sony’s Blu-ray. That puts Universal, Warner, Paramount, HBO, New Line Cinemas and the Weinstein Company all in the HD-DVD camp.

Sure, it does have some support coming in the form of Disney and Fox, but the line up against is looking more and more impressive.

So, why should this be of concern to video gamers? Because Sony has made it a concern. Rather than go sans next-gen movies like Wii, or opt for an external drive like Microsoft, Sony’s made Blu-ray a huge part of its console’s hype. In fact, that big-ticket price on the PS3 console comes mostly because of the Blu-ray capability included.

But now it seems Blu-ray could be Sony’s own downfall (OK, that along with some serious ego issues and bad planning).

The next-gen movie concept not being embraced by the studios is a serious blow. Sony’s been counting on it to push the PS3 as a total entertainment device. Sony execs have used the Blu-ray inclusion as a way to justify the pricing of the console. They’re now blaming it for the delay in launch and the scaling back of launch numbers.

If the Hollywood studios don’t back the device, why would anyone want to buy it? Sure, hard core gamers will want it in hopes of high-def video gaming action, but what about the rest of the potential buyers out there? Will they be willing to plunk down the price Sony’s asking for a device that may or may not have good movie support?

It’s doubtful and this could put a beating on sales when the console does make its worldwide launch. Add to this the fact Blu-ray movies are expensive, and it really starts to lose its appeal over the optional HD-DVD capabilities of the Xbox 360.

The closer it gets to Sony’s PS3 launch, the more it’s looking like Blu-ray is destined to go the way of the UMD even before it’s really hit the ground running. It didn’t have to be this way for Sony, but it appears greed, arrogance and maybe even a bit of foolishness have made it so.

Her followup

I’ve received a lot of flack since posting my opinion piece on Sony’s Blu-ray drive – a whole lot. The Sony fans are coming out of the woodwork upset that anyone would dare say they believe Blu-ray is a big mistake.

They’re entitled to their opinions and I respect them for being willing to write in and give their side. But, I thought perhaps I should set the record straight on a few things.

First off, I am a Sony fan – a rather big one. I’m an EQ junkie and have been so for years. Most of my electronics equipment has a Sony brand name on it. I subscribe to PlanetSide, too, and I even owned a PlayStation at one point. So, Sony and I go way back.

But, I also happen to be a very disappointed Sony fan for a number of reasons. Let me explain:

1.) Sony’s inability to deliver. Sony’s hyped up the PlayStation 3 console so much it’s ridiculous, yet when the rubber hits the road, it’s had to scale back everything because of the Blu-ray diode. No longer will the PS3 launch be worldwide and the numbers they’re planning on offering are a joke – a la the Xbox 360’s initial launch.

2.) Sony has a history of major failures when trying to introduce new movie-viewing formats. Yet, the company is making another attempt to do so, and it’s entangled a gaming machine in the prospect. This console has the potential to be incredible, but Blu-ray is bringing it and Sony’s stock prices down.

3.) Sony’s arrogance in regard to its PS3 and Blu-ray simply is unwarranted. No. 1, the format is as of yet unproven, as is the HD-DVD format. Sony has spent so much time bragging about the PS3, it failed to make sure the darn thing could be put together in the timeframe it boasted. I, perhaps foolishly, hoped Sony would have been smart enough to learn from Microsoft’s mistakes, but it seems the only company taking the cue is Nintendo.

In regard to the movie studios falling behind the HD-DVD or the Blu-ray format, that I will concede is pretty irrelevant. All in all, it’s been seen in the past the studios and stores will toss their support one way and then pull the rug out from underneath it at the first sign of trouble. If Blu-ray sells, they’ll go that way. If HD-DVD does, you can bet they’ll be lining up to produce in this format. Right now a lot of them are in both camps, which I did fail to point out this morning. But the fact of the matter is, if neither format sells well, the shelves once occupied by HD-DVD or Blu-ray will have tumbleweed on them as far as new releases are concerned. This will hurt the PS3's Sony-created selling point, but not the Xbox 360's.

As for the Blu-ray versus HD-DVD pricing that folks have been mailing me about. Blu-ray all in all does fall in higher as does the PS3 console. The typical price of Blu-ray movies on BestBuy is $29.99. The average price for HD-DVD is $24.99. Both formats have titles running much higher and a little lower, too. Frankly, both are too high in my opinion.

My stand on Sony’s mistakes remains the same. Sony made the PS3 and Blu-ray dependent on each other in regard to selling this console. They're the ones hyping the total entertainment system to justify the pricing.

I still believe if Sony had spent more time getting its ducks in a row and less time hyping a launch it couldn’t pull off that perhaps it could have pulled it off. Instead, Sony execs talked up the console, promised a worldwide launch and now have egg on their faces instead (and a stock price hit, too). It’s just bad business not to deliver on promises and Sony’s getting a rep for not delivering and that is a shame.

Sony’s a great company. It makes good games. It makes great game machines. It makes fantastic television sets. It even makes some wonderful movies. But, it also makes some mistakes.

It’s my belief Blu-ray will be one of those. In all honesty, it’s anyone’s guess as to which format will survive if either do. But, based on Sony’s past failures and its recent screw-ups, I’m not banking on Blu-ray.

Its interesting to see people actually believe things like this. Its so off the mark its borders on insanity. Its almost like it was written just to anger people that exhibit some common sense.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

http://www.igniq.com/2006/09/ps3s-bl...d-to-fail.html



Her followup




Its interesting to see people actually believe things like this. Its so off the mark its borders on insanity. Its almost like it was written just to anger people that exhibit some common sense.

What's sad is: This kind of crap doesn't even phase me anymore.

Anyone who's a veteran of forums like AVS is so used to seeing this kind of nonsense by now...it's just nothing new, unfortuneately.


Once yet again, say it with me kids:

OH NOES!!!! TEH SKY SI FALLIGN!!!!!

OH NOES!!! BLEWBETARAY IS TEH DOOME4ED!!!!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by JTK

Once yet again, say it with me kids:

OH NOES!!!! TEH SKY SI FALLIGN!!!!!

OH NOES!!! BLEWBETARAY IS TEH DOOME4ED!!!!

LOL

[zombie]

Of all the crap she's dishing out this is the part that annoyed me the most:

That puts Universal, Warner, Paramount, HBO, New Line Cinemas and the Weinstein Company all in the HD-DVD camp.

Sure, it does have some support coming in the form of Disney and Fox, but the line up against is looking more and more impressive.

Wake up lady!! Paramount and Warner (which owns HBO & New Line) are supporting HD DVD and Blu-ray equally! She tries to separate the Warner entities into more support for HD DVD. Word is the Weinstein Company will be supporting Blu-ray early next year so guess what's left as exclusive HD DVD support? Universal, that's it! Hello? Anybody in that shell?

Funny how that wasn't in her followup. Certainly if she received a lot of email from Sony fans at least one of them would have pointed this out.

[Psiweaver]

she just didn't want to admit that. Clearly a biased article. Thats one of things that irks me most about the format so far is how much bias there is on some message boards and how somewhere like blu-ray.com actually tends to be the least biased its wierd to me that one side has to be such extravagant claims in order to feel good about themselves.

[Knight-Errant]

Agreed there's been very little silencing of opposing viewpoints here.

[Longshot]

The BD group needs to have their own "Amir" to counter a lot of this BS. You know it's only going to get worse btw. now and Nov. 17th.

[Psiweaver]

I think the blu-ray just need to let there products and pq and aq do the talking not to mention there vast studio support.

[mainman]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

http://www.igniq.com/2006/09/ps3s-bl...d-to-fail.html



Her followup




Its interesting to see people actually believe things like this. Its so off the mark its borders on insanity. Its almost like it was written just to anger people that exhibit some common sense.

This is what I think about her opinion:
Focus especially on take 10

[Psiweaver]

The wierd about this whole piece is its simply that her opinion nowhere does she give really good hard facts about why her opinion is right its all pretty wishy washy.

[CobaltBlue]

As a huge Audio/Videophile, I hate to agree with the naysayers but Sony has a notoriously bad track record on developing their innovative technologies. This is just a quick reminder to put the fanboys in check. I'm not crticizing technical capabilities, merely implementation...

*Betamax- *cough cough* how'd that last big format battle go again?
*MiniDisc- I kept waiting for this to, rightfully, replace cd as a realistic and durable solution. Yup, still waiting.
*Memory Stick-"few other manufacturers are also making use of this technology"
*HiFD- yeah, I never heard of it either. It's competitor Zip did pretty well though.
*SDDS (Sony Dynamic Digital Sound)- "Ultimately, SDDS has been vastly overshadowed by the preferred DTS (Digital Theatre System) and Dolby Digital standards"
*ATRAC- do people own ATRAC or MP3 players?
*Elcaset- another dead proprietary audio format.
*SACD- Relevant as a recent Hi-def format war and my favorite example as an audiophile. Sony develops a superior audio technology (yes, even in comparison to vinyl) and then releases a handful (I'm being generous) of albums per year and advertises... wait, that's right I never saw any. Thank god for third party releases. DVD-Audio seems to have kind-of? won this format war. The end result being a public largely ignorant that either exists at all. Thanks to bad implentation and the rise of crappy but compressed MP3's, the music we listen to is at the same or worse quality(media-wise) it was in the 80's.
Lastly,
*MultiMedia Compact Disc (MMCD)- never had one of these did you? That's because Philips and Sony abandoned their MMCD format and agreed upon Toshiba's SD format. This became the DVD we know and love.

Sony has never been what I would call consumer friendly (2005 rootkit debacle anyone?). Though my love of games and movies has me eager to have HD and Blu-ray, my response (and others) might be to hold off until these idiots consider their customers, go back to the drawing board and come back with a unified format. One way or another we'll get one and not everyone is clamoring for a PS3... so that doesn't guarantee success other than in use as another proprietary Sony format for their products(a'la UMD). So far it looks like HD has the edge of releases, and if the price is reasonable for the Xbox360 add-on drive, there's a difficult decision coming for budget concious movie watching gamers. If the choices are HD drive and Halo3(that's right, I dropped the H-bomb) vs. a new PS3...
Also, I'd like to pose a question to those more knowledgable...
According to tomshardware.com and other tech savy sources, decoding encryption on new Hi-def media is going to give even recent dual core processors in pc's a hard time. Upon Sony's insistence, Blu-ray has stronger encryption from what I've read. Will HD-dvd's cause less of a performance hit on a pc than Blu-ray? If so, I think that is a pretty important consideration as well.

CobaltBlue

*Most info taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony#Proprietary_formats

[Applefiend]

Blu Ray is not a Sony format, it has multiple backers.

[CobaltBlue]

"The Blu-ray standard was jointly developed by a group of consumer electronics and PC companies called the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), spearheaded by Sony."

"The first Blu-ray recorder was unveiled by Sony on March 3, 2003."

Most people reference it as follows "With Toshiba being the primary promoter of the HD DVD in the battle against Sony's Blu-ray technology..."- http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/21/to...ray/index.html

I think I can safely call Blu-ray a Sony product.

CobaltBlue

[zombie]

You can call BD a Sony product but it doesn't mean they're the only one running the show. Matshuita (Panasonic) is a huge outspoken comember of the BDA. You may remember them as the company that brought us VHS which defeated Beta. IMO a wise move to get them on the same side as Sony for the next generation disc format.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

I think I can safely call Blu-ray a Sony product.

CobaltBlue

You can say whatever you want a thousand times but it doesn't make it so.

Blu-Ray is not just a Sony product, no matter how many times you want to repeat it.

[CobaltBlue]

From past experience we can only hope that not only is Sony not the only one running the show, but that they're letting the marketing aspect fall to someone more capable.

It's all about the movies and the cost to transition from DVD for the average consumer.

If a year from now HD-DVD players are still 50%(read $500) cheaper with more movies available, possibly at a cheaper price... then superior tech specs or no, Blu-ray will be relegated to PS3 games and backup media for PC's. As for PS3's impacting the # of BR users, BR is already greatly limiting the PS3 launch to begin with. Regardless, only the few titles unique to the Playstation are going to look much different from 360 titles. Remember how superior the xbox hardware was to the ps2, yet the games came out by and large as ports catering to the lesser system to maximize third party profits.

Thinking about it further, the higher potential storage capacity argument doesn't hold either. All Blu-ray movies currently released have been on single-layer 25 GB discs while 30 GB dual-sided HD DVDs have been used on nearly every release.
If it came down to storage I'd expect the timetable to get bumped up on 45gb single side or 90 gb double sided hd-dvd's.

So then the argument comes down to quality I guess. Without going into how the public will sacrifice quality for cost and convenience(mp3)...
Blu-ray permits a higher maximum video-bitrate, as well as potentially higher average bitrates due to greater total disc-capacity. But if disc-capacity isn't really an issue as stated above, where is the advantage?
In terms of audio, there are greater differences. Blu-ray allows conventional AC-3 audiotracks at 640 kbit/s, which is higher than DVD/HD DVD's maximum, 448 kbit/s. On the other hand, Dolby Digital Plus support is mandatory for standalone HD DVD players at a maximum of 3 Mbit/s, while only optional for BD players and capped at 1.7 Mbit/s.

So to sum up how I interpret the current state of things... more storage on currently produced 30gb HD-DVD's with the potential to increase matching Blu-ray to limits beyond what is needed for movies. Higher potential for audio on Blu-ray but with a higher standard in place on HD-dvd players.

Sony(and company) have a formidable road ahead. And that's assuming they don't have to go up against ads saying... "Lord of the Rings(collectively the highest grossing films of all time) Only on HD-dvd."

I'm for Blu-ray and I'm not even sold yet. Especially at a $500 higher price for entry. So yeah, I'm hoping someone else holds Sony's hand on this one, soon.

[phranctoast]

Sony(and company) have a formidable road ahead. And that's assuming they don't have to go up against ads saying... "Lord of the Rings(collectively the highest grossing films of all time) Only on HD-dvd."

New line Cinema supports both formats.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

From past experience we can only hope that not only is Sony not the only one running the show,

Look at who's in the BDA. Look who's putting out hardware. Look who's responsible for BD's inception.

Again, we can all repeat ourselves a thousand times and I guess it just isn't going to matter with you:

IT"S NOT JUST SONY!

... but that they're letting the marketing aspect fall to someone more capable.

It's all about the movies and the cost to transition from DVD for the average consumer.

Many years from now.

If a year from now HD-DVD players are still 50%(read $500) cheaper with more movies available,

They won't be.

...possibly at a cheaper price... then superior tech specs or no, Blu-ray will be relegated to PS3 games and backup media for PC's.

Won't happen.

As long as HD-DVD is just Toshiba, Microsoft, and a few other strays against pretty much the rest of the world, I can assure you this will not happen.

As for PS3's impacting the # of BR users, BR is already greatly limiting the PS3 launch to begin with.

How so?

Link? Source?

Regardless, only the few titles unique to the Playstation are going to look much different from 360 titles. Remember how superior the xbox hardware was to the ps2, yet the games came out by and large as ports catering to the lesser system to maximize third party profits.

True. It will be at least 1-2 years before we see PS3 games that start breaking down barriers.

The fact of the matter is: The Xbox360's present hardware will most certainly hit a brick wall long before the PS3's hardware.

Thinking about it further, the higher potential storage capacity argument doesn't hold either. All Blu-ray movies currently released have been on single-layer 25 GB discs while 30 GB dual-sided HD DVDs have been used on nearly every release.

Ah yes. I've seen this spin on AVS countless times.

You have seen the news about BD50 titles coming out this year, like Black Hawk Down yes?

So this spin is already dead. Hate to break it to you.

If it came down to storage I'd expect the timetable to get bumped up on 45gb single side or 90 gb double sided hd-dvd's.

I'll believe it when I see it. At that point, it will be down by 5 gigs to BD50's...which are coming out this year, starting with Black Hawk Down.

So then the argument comes down to quality I guess. Without going into how the public will sacrifice quality for cost and convenience(mp3)...
Blu-ray permits a higher maximum video-bitrate, as well as potentially higher average bitrates due to greater total disc-capacity.

Yes.

But if disc-capacity isn't really an issue as stated above, where is the advantage?

I already answered this.

In terms of audio, there are greater differences. Blu-ray allows conventional AC-3 audiotracks at 640 kbit/s, which is higher than DVD/HD DVD's maximum, 448 kbit/s. On the other hand, Dolby Digital Plus support is mandatory for standalone HD DVD players at a maximum of 3 Mbit/s, while only optional for BD players and capped at 1.7 Mbit/s.

I'll take uncompressed PCM over just about anything else.

So to sum up how I interpret the current state of things... more storage on currently produced 30gb HD-DVD's

Very short term advantage. See above. Your argument is pretty much already gone and done with.

... with the potential to increase matching Blu-ray to limits beyond what is needed for movies. Higher potential for audio on Blu-ray but with a higher standard in place on HD-dvd players.

Higher standard my ass. Those clunky Toshiba HD-DVD players couldn't be much lower in standards as far as hardware goes.

Sony(and company) have a formidable road ahead. And that's assuming they don't have to go up against ads saying... "Lord of the Rings(collectively the highest grossing films of all time) Only on HD-dvd."

Won't happen.

I'm for Blu-ray and I'm not even sold yet. Especially at a $500 higher price for entry. So yeah, I'm hoping someone else holds Sony's hand on this one, soon.

I doubt it. I think you're here as an HD-DVD fan trying to stir up some trouble.

Maybe not, but there's a few things you've written here since you joined that make one take pause.

I think you've got the HD-DVD talking points down pat. The same spin and non arguments I've been reading on forums like AVS for months.

It's nothing new. I've seen all of this before and so has everyone else.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

Thinking about it further, the higher potential storage capacity argument doesn't hold either. All Blu-ray movies currently released have been on single-layer 25 GB discs while 30 GB dual-sided HD DVDs have been used on nearly every release.

If it came down to storage I'd expect the timetable to get bumped up on 45gb single side or 90 gb double sided hd-dvd's.

I think you need to look at the specs on HD DVD and at the technology itself (including how the tracks/layers are arranged). IIRC the current HD DVD spec does not encompass triple layer (45 GB) disks. This is on the technology roadmap, but is not part of the current spec -- and it may never be part of the spec. Thus no player currently shipping, or shipping in the near future has a requirement to support triple layer (45 GB) disks.

Conversely, the BDA does have dual layer (50 GB) disks as part of the spec. Thus for any currently shipping, or shipping in the near term, player to claim to be 100% compatible with the BDA spec it must support playing both single layer (25 GB) and dual layer (50 GB) disks.

Talking about 45 GB HD DVD disks is not different from talking about 100 GB BDA disks. They may show up, but neither is part of the current specs, and neither is going to be part of cumsumer grade machines for quite some time.

Also (and I haven't looked at this in several months) but IIRC it is not physically possible -- with the current designs in the lab -- to have three layers on each of both sides of an HD DVD disk. You can have two layers on each of both sides -- yielding 60 GB total. However, a 90 GB HD DVD disk is not possible with the current designs (i.e., with the first two layers compatible with the current dual layer designs).

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

So to sum up how I interpret the current state of things... more storage on currently produced 30gb HD-DVD's with the potential to increase matching Blu-ray to limits beyond what is needed for movies.

The myth that 30 GB is more than enough for any movie (i.e., "matching Blu-ray to limits beyond what is needed for movies") has been debunked so many times this is becoming laughable. Even using VC-1 or H.264 a 4+ hour epic is going to take more than 30 GB as shown by the size of the features on the disks already out using VC-1. Additionally, if 30 GB is more than enough, why are all HD DVD fanbois loudly proclaiming the 45 GB disk size whenever the 50 GB BDA disk size is mentioned? Why not proclaim that 30 GB is enough and be done with it? They don't just stay with claiming that 30 GB is just as good as 50 GB because they know it's not true. The simple fact is that for some features (many of the classic epics and some newer movies, e.g., the LOTR set) will not fit on 30 GB.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by CobaltBlue

As a huge Audio/Videophile, I hate to agree with the naysayers but Sony has a notoriously bad track record on developing their innovative technologies. This is just a quick reminder to put the fanboys in check. I'm not crticizing technical capabilities, merely implementation...

As a huge "Audio/Videophile" I think you'd know better than to spew off BS much akin to the OP's, Articles editor. Let's re-evaluate the track record from a differen't perspective...so there is no unneccessary "FUD" spread either way...going to wikpedia for your info proves you were on a search and destroy mission to use to spread FUD

*Betamax- *cough cough* how'd that last big format battle go again?

Betamax, a technilogically superior format to VHS which lost the "home video" market but was the superior format in broadcast recording. This format has yet to "Dissapear" and is still used today in the broadcast industry. The last Betamax player/recorder was sold in 2000. Thats a pretty impressive lifespan in my eyes.

*MiniDisc- I kept waiting for this to, rightfully, replace cd as a realistic and durable solution. Yup, still waiting.

MiniDisc still is a realistic and durable solution, player/recorders and blank media are still sold today...no abandonment here. so whats your point? Does every product released have to be t3h winnAR? can't products co-exist??

*Memory Stick-"few other manufacturers are also making use of this technology"

I would consider memory stick, duo & pro duo a huge success. Sony's incorporated it into televisions, the slot is on printers, computers and card readers. Sony has had large success in the digital imaging markets and their memory is priced equally with Secure Digital/compact flash and XD.
Don't know why you would consider *Memorystick a failure...oh yeah, maybe because your reaching...for some hope of failure from sony...typical Fanboi Fud spewing.

*HiFD- yeah, I never heard of it either. It's competitor Zip did pretty well though.

With CDrom/DVDrom nobody had a chance against that at the time unless BD would have been released then.

*SDDS (Sony Dynamic Digital Sound)- "Ultimately, SDDS has been vastly overshadowed by the preferred DTS (Digital Theatre System) and Dolby Digital standards"

Still used by theatres nationwide, why is this even used as a comparison? Desperation to try and prove a point, weak...next....

*ATRAC- do people own ATRAC or MP3 players?

dude, are you seriously trying to equate this to a format war? gimme a break...

*Elcaset- another dead proprietary audio format.

Never heard of it, but I don't knock Sony for trying new things.

*SACD- Relevant as a recent Hi-def format war and my favorite example as an audiophile. Sony develops a superior audio technology (yes, even in comparison to vinyl) and then releases a handful (I'm being generous) of albums per year and advertises... wait, that's right I never saw any. Thank god for third party releases. DVD-Audio seems to have kind-of? won this format war. The end result being a public largely ignorant that either exists at all. Thanks to bad implentation and the rise of crappy but compressed MP3's, the music we listen to is at the same or worse quality(media-wise) it was in the 80's.

The general public isn't going to buy anything but CD's with digital distribution becomming more and more popular. I don't care what audio format you come out with it will be too little too late. SACD & DVDA should have been heavily promoted/released in 2000/01 if it even stood a chance. Your godsend format "DVD" didn't even have a chance here...CD sales at retailers are down 40% from 3 years ago and even Best Buy is implimenting recording stations in it's stores so that you can come in, select the songs and burn them to a disc.

Lastly,
*MultiMedia Compact Disc (MMCD)- never had one of these did you? That's because Philips and Sony abandoned their MMCD format and agreed upon Toshiba's SD format. This became the DVD we know and love.

So now we reach further and try and bring in a format that was never sold..are you knocking sony for being innovative? Should sony become a lemming of the CE world, would that make you happy as an "Audio/videophile"?? so you can rely on the genius minds of Toshiba to bring us more glitchy/clunky crap? no thanks...I'll take the polished products sony delivers time and time again...Sony, I commend your work!

Sony has never been what I would call consumer friendly (2005 rootkit debacle anyone?).

Rootkit Debacle...okay a mistake they took care of. But you don't consider them consumer friendly yet they ended the last format war by giving in...now they have the superior format and they are suppossed to do it again? how does less speed/storage/studio &CE support benefit the consumer???
Sony IMO is probably the most consumer friendly. Alot of their products work together (memorystick) they helped your beloved DVD format springboard to stardom with the ps3 and early referance players and their customer service is 10fold better than any other large companies i've had to deal with. if/when i've had a problem. Of the probably 100's of sony products i've ever owned i've only ever had two problems (both cd lasers going out on stereo/dvd) and both covered under warranty for free, quickly.

Though my love of games and movies has me eager to have HD and Blu-ray, my response (and others) might be to hold off until these idiots consider their customers, go back to the drawing board and come back with a unified format.

The BDA (you call it Sony) tryed several times to approach Toshiba with options to end a format war, Toshiba felt that since they had the HDDVD "name" they held all the cards...IMO they are the idiots who don't consider their customers. The BDA (sony as you call it) IMO has done everything possible to do right by the consumer. They aren't charging us extra and including a dumb SD dvd (combo discs), and they are up to 90% studio support to make sure it's customers have the most HD content available for their supported format. What has HDDVD done? recruit the evil Bill Gates and company and a few scant pc manufacturers...wow, thats impressive...(Gimme a F'n break)

One way or another we'll get one and not everyone is clamoring for a PS3... so that doesn't guarantee success other than in use as another proprietary Sony format for their products(a'la UMD).

Ps3 will play CD's, DVD's, BD's, SACD's & read any memory card. I think you'd be pretty dumb to think you'd have no use for this device even if BD doesn't win as a movie distribution media.

So far it looks like HD has the edge of releases,

with a 3 month head start i'd expect them to be further ahead than they are...look at the 4th quarter...the BDA's release list looks far more impressive IMO. the gap in quality has closed and now with 50gb on the horizon with release dates from several studio's it's only gonna get worse for HDDVD.

and if the price is reasonable for the Xbox360 add-on drive, there's a difficult decision coming for budget concious movie watching gamers. If the choices are HD drive and Halo3(that's right, I dropped the H-bomb) vs. a new PS3...

Blu ray comes inside EVERY ps3. add on's are notoriously failures, when something is included it's more likely adopted. If only 60% of 360 owners own HDTV's of that how many will buy HDDVD's ? especially when the studio support is so lobsided in Blu Ray's favor? not even mentioning that Blu Disc helps make better games through increased storage capacity, you may start seeing gamers selling their 360's or abandonning them in favor of ps3. ps3 will have everything but Halo (wow a fps thats not revolutionary anymore) and more...all those Japanese developers who shun xbox...will be making kick ass games (mostly rpg) for the what...the ps3!

Also, I'd like to pose a question to those more knowledgable...
According to tomshardware.com and other tech savy sources, decoding encryption on new Hi-def media is going to give even recent dual core processors in pc's a hard time. Upon Sony's insistence, Blu-ray has stronger encryption from what I've read. Will HD-dvd's cause less of a performance hit on a pc than Blu-ray? If so, I think that is a pretty important consideration as well.

I'll leave this one for the PC geeks...i don't know.