Movie File Sizes

[phloyd]

While I can't get this data myself I have a friend reporting the following:

Aeon Flux 14.09 GB 93 mins (MPEG2)
Click! 17.92 GB and 15.28 GB 107 mins (MPEG2)
Eight Below 19.62 GB 120 mins (H.264)
Fifth Element 21.67 GB 126 mins (MPEG2)
The Fugitive 21.21 GB 130 mins (MPEG2)
House of Flying Daggers 21.25 GB 119 mins (MPEG2)
Swordfish 16.06 GB 99 mins (VC-1)
Tears of the Sun 20.18 121 mins (MPEG2)
Terminator 2 21.75 GB (23,357,331,456 Bytes) 137 mins (MPEG2)
Ultraviolet 16.77 GB 87 mins (MPEG2)

I will add more here as I find the details out.

For Click!, The PowerDVD bitrate meter is between 35 and 40 Mbps most of the time. There are two large files so maybe they have to split the files for DL.

The entire session for House of Flying Daggers is 24,896,929,792 bytes.

[theknub]

i assume this is just the film w/ audio (if so, just one track or multiple) and no extras?

[phloyd]

These are the filesizes for the feature only and will include all aspects of the feature bitstream.

Let me know if you think that this is useful or interesting ... I can probably add more but won't bother if it is not interesting to folks

[Josh]

Its very useful. Also interesting. The bit rate using AVC isn't much lower than the MPEG-2 bit rate.

[theknub]

very interesting. i think it would be more interesting if the same feature in hd-dvd is listed and it's file size included

[Josh]

Here is a good thread where Cjplay (encoder) gives the average and peak bit rates for VC-1 titles:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=692782&

[Shadowself]

It is interesting to note that even for H.264 for Eight Below (which many have claimed has great PQ) the data rate is no where near the mythological 18 Mbps (or less) claimed by some fanboys of HD DVD to justify saying 30 GB is all you'll ever need.

The more of these in H.264 or VC-1 we can get the better.

My guess is the average will stay at above 20 Mbps, as the historical average has been.

[Shadowself]

One thing about which we have to be observant is what bit rate is being discussed.

It is one thing to claim that movie XYZ is encoded at 14 Mbps and looks wonderful and easily fits within 20 GB of disk space -- but then you look into it and the 14 Mbps is video only.

After you add in a 5.1 lossless format audio you get well beyond any hope of getting to 14 Mbps for everything.

As stated above the file sizes for the features mentioned is for everything: video and audio. To me, that is the file size that is most critical.

[theknub]

another critical component of it is what kind of sound. are we looking at dts, dts-hd, dolby, dolby-truhd (or whatever the symbol is), pcm, etc etc

[phloyd]

I have added an update for Click!

Be aware that we are not certain but believe that the two biggest files are the movie.

The other stream files vary in size but none are larger than 1 GB. Some are large enough to run 5 mins at 20 Mbps so they are probably the various extras. I believe that there are around 43 mins of extras total. There is also a good chance that the HD extras are not as high in bitrate as the main feature and do not have uncompressed 6 channel audio.

[Deciazulado]

Aeon Flux 14.09 GB 93 mins (MPEG2) = 14.09 GB/5,580 sec = 21.7 mbs
Click! 17.92 GB + 15.28 GB 107 mins (MPEG2) = 33.20 GB/6,420 sec = 44.4 mbs
Eight Below 19.62 GB 120 mins (H.264) = 19.62 GB/7,200 sec = 23.4 mbs
Fifth Element 21.67 GB 126 mins (MPEG2) = 21.67 GB/7,560 sec = 24.6 mbs
The Fugitive 21.21 GB 130 mins (MPEG2) = 21.21 GB/7,800 sec = 23.4 mbs
House of Flying Daggers 21.25 GB 119 mins (MPEG2) 21.25 GB/7,140 sec = 25.6 mbs
Swordfish 16.06 GB 99 mins (VC-1) = 16.06 GB/5,940 sec = 23.2 mbs
Tears of the Sun 20.18 121 mins (MPEG2) = 20.18 GB/7,260 sec = 23.9 mbs
Terminator 2 21.75 GB 137 mins (MPEG2) = 21.75 GB/8,220 sec = 22.7 mbs
Ultraviolet 16.77 GB 87 mins (MPEG2) = 16.77 GB/5,220 sec = 27.6 mbs

I assumed GBs as in 1024 x 1024 x 1024 x byte (like your T2 example)

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Aeon Flux 14.09 GB 93 mins (MPEG2) = 14.09 GB/5,580 sec = 21.7 mbs
Click! 17.92 GB + 15.28 GB 107 mins (MPEG2) = 33.20 GB/6,420 sec = 44.4 mbs
Eight Below 19.62 GB 120 mins (H.264) = 19.62 GB/7,200 sec = 23.4 mbs
Fifth Element 21.67 GB 126 mins (MPEG2) = 21.67 GB/7,560 sec = 24.6 mbs
The Fugitive 21.21 GB 130 mins (MPEG2) = 21.21 GB/7,800 sec = 23.4 mbs
House of Flying Daggers 21.25 GB 119 mins (MPEG2) 21.25 GB/7,140 sec = 25.6 mbs
Swordfish 16.06 GB 99 mins (VC-1) = 16.06 GB/5,940 sec = 23.2 mbs
Tears of the Sun 20.18 121 mins (MPEG2) = 20.18 GB/7,260 sec = 23.9 mbs
Terminator 2 21.75 GB 137 mins (MPEG2) = 21.75 GB/8,220 sec = 22.7 mbs
Ultraviolet 16.77 GB 87 mins (MPEG2) = 16.77 GB/5,220 sec = 27.6 mbs

I assumed GBs as in 1024 x 1024 x 1024 x byte (like your T2 example)

That's awesome man, thanks for that info.

Long live BR.

[Rio]

Here are the numbers I posted on AVS Forum before:

                    Codec  Total Used      Feature Only    Run Time  AV Rate   Ave.V Rate  Audio Rate
S.W.A.T.            MPEG2  22,736,532,830  20,937,848,832  117       22.7Mbps  16.8Mbps    4.608+0.640+0.640Mbps
Tears of the Sun    MPEG2  23,714,791,424  21,671,239,680  121       22.7Mbps  17.1Mbps    4.608+0.448+0.448+0.192Mbps
Click               MPEG2  40,962,814,968  35,648,335,872  107       42.3Mbps  36.2Mbps    4.608+0.640+0.640+0.192Mbps
Dinasaur            MPEG2  23,228,052,102  20,572,594,176  82        31.9Mbps  21.7Mbps    6.912+1.509+0.640+0.448+0.448+0.192Mbps
Jay and Silent Bob  MPEG2  20,221,544,086  19,931,897,856  104       24.3Mbps  18.5Mbps    4.608+0.640+0.448+0.192Mbps
Eight Below         AVC    22,660,803,784  21,068,132,352  120       22.3Mbps  15.9Mbps    4.608+0.640+0.448+0.448+0.192Mbps
The Great Raid      AVC    23,082,681,624  22,655,508,480  133       21.6Mbps  16.2Mbps    4.608+0.448+0.192Mbps
Training Day        MPEG2  17,908,563,968  15,031,695,360  122       15.7Mbps  14.2Mbps    0.640+0.640+0.192Mbps
Swordfish           VC-1   20,348,598,040  17,242,951,680  99        22.1Mbps  20.5Mbps    0.640+0.640+0.192+0.192Mbps
Corpse Bride        VC-1   16,524,251,954  12,968,300,544  77        21.4Mbps  18.8Mbps    0.640+0.640+0.640+0.640Mbps
The Lake House      VC-1   13,622,616,066  12,921,870,336  98        16.7Mbps  14.8Mbps    0.640+0.640+0.640Mbps
Sky Captain         MPEG2  24,254,994,344  18,967,953,408  106       22.7Mbps  18.9Mbps    1.509+0.640+0.640+0.640+0.192+0.192Mbps
Tomb Raider         MPEG2  22,894,723,948  17,543,196,672  100       22.3Mbps  18.7Mbps    1.509+0.640+0.640+0.640+0.192Mbps
Sleepy Hollow       MPEG2  24,079,571,080  21,099,294,720  105       25.5Mbps  21.9Mbps    1.509+0.640+0.640+0.640+0.192Mbps
Four Brothers       MPEG2  22,403,877,288  19,423,887,360  108       22.8Mbps  19.2Mbps    1.509+0.640+0.640+0.640+0.192Mbps

When we talk about video bitrate, we'd better to consider how much audio bitrate is consumed, since Warner doesn't use LPCM, while SPE and Disney use it.

[hmurchison]

Sounds about right. You want to keep MPEG2 above 20Mbps avg with some headroom for peaks.

AVC/VC-1 can exist happily in the low teens with peaks up to 20Mpbs or more.

There's no five alarm fires here at all. Both formats have the necessary space and bandwidth. If you're an lossless audio nut then clearly the bandwidth can be eaten up but frankly audio is a distant second to video in quality for a vast majority of consumers. Cheaper HTiB mated to expensive Plasmas should prove this to most.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by Rio

Here are the numbers I posted on AVS Forum before:
<snip>
When we talk about video bitrate, we'd better to consider how much audio bitrate is consumed, since Warner doesn't use LPCM, while SPE and Disney use it.

Great table! We can definitely use more information like this.

One little nit pick... your Mbps numbers appear to be based upon the definition of Mbps using a 1024 x 1024 definition for M. This is incorrect. The M represents 1,000,000. Thus your Mbps numbers are about 5% low.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

AVC/VC-1 can exist happily in the low teens with peaks up to 20Mpbs or more.

Did you actually LOOK at the table? Unless I'm drastically reading the table wrong, only one of the AVC/VC-1 features is below 15 Mbps for the video itself -- and after you correct for what appears to be a 5% error in Mbps calculation none is below 15 Mbps.

How does that imply that "AVC/VC-1 can exist happily in the low teens"?

This table implies to me that most of the features, even using AVC or VC-1 will require video data rates in the upper teens. The average of the AVC/VC-1 features in the table is approximately 18 Mbps just for the video.

The total feature data rate, audio and video, averages about 22 Mpbs for the AVC/VC-1 features -- which is consistent with all the other data I've seen.

At this average rate a 30 GB HD DVD does, at most, 196 minutes -- well short of the HD DVD fanboys' claims of four hours and well sort of most epic films.

[aka Wombat]

finally some answers to my question!
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=2782

[Rio]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

One little nit pick... your Mbps numbers appear to be based upon the definition of Mbps using a 1024 x 1024 definition for M. This is incorrect. The M represents 1,000,000. Thus your Mbps numbers are about 5% low.

My calculation for "M" is based on 1,000,000, not 1024 x 1024. The reason why you see 5% low number is I'm subtracting overhead rate - assuming 5% -, like subtitle data, TS/PES header information from AV rate which is simply calculated by dividing file size by run time.

[Deciazulado]

Out of curiosity, I wanted to make a table comparing compression for all of them.

Used the EBU AVC/VC-1 2x > MPEG-2 factor ratio to equalize them all.

Also 2/3rds of the list is letterboxed 2.4 wide ratio transfers which needs 75% the bit rate of a full frame 16:9 image. So I multiplied the bitrate by 1.33x to compensate.

(Encoding a film image 2.40 wide that has been shrunk to fit inside the 16:9 ratio means the size of the grain to be encoded is shrunk too, making the image to be encoded less grainy, but that I didn't try to come up with a factor for. But it makes you think about why so many 2.40 movies on High Definition discs instead of 1.85 Widescreen ones (the most common ratio since 1955) which would make a better fit with a 16:9 screen and make a bigger impression to get "new customers" for the new "format", you know, the ones that go: "Why if it's HD do I still get black bars?"

Encoding black bars is easier and occupies less space


Don't know if this table correlates with the actual disc's image quality but as I said, I was curious.

Ranking order, all in full frame AVC/VC-1 equivalents:

2.40 Swordfish           27.3 mbs    0  dB (baseline)
2.40 The Last Stand      24.0 mbs  0.56 dB more compression
2.40 The Great Raid      21.6 mbs  1.02 dB more compression
2.40 Eight Below         21.2 mbs  1.10 dB more compression
2.40 The Lake House      19.7 mbs  1.42 dB more compression
1.85 Corpse Bride        18.8 mbs  1.62 dB more compression
1.85 Click               18.1 mbs  1.78 dB more compression
2.40 Four Brothers       12.8 mbs  3.29 dB more compression
2.40 Tomb Raider         12.5 mbs  3.39 dB more compression
2.40 Jay and Silent Bob  12.4 mbs  3.43 dB more compression
2.40 Tears of the Sun    11.4 mbs  3.79 dB more compression
2.40 S.W.A.T.            11.2 mbs  3.87 dB more compression
1.85 Sleepy Hollow       11.0 mbs  3.95 dB more compression
1.85 Dinosaur            10.9 mbs  3.99 dB more compression
1.85 Sky Captain          9.5 mbs  4.58 dB more compression
2.40 Training Day         9.5 mbs  4.58 dB more compression

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by Rio

My calculation for "M" is based on 1,000,000, not 1024 x 1024. The reason why you see 5% low number is I'm subtracting overhead rate - assuming 5% -, like subtitle data, TS/PES header information from AV rate which is simply calculated by dividing file size by run time.

I understand your rationale but disagree with it.

Are you saying this overhead is not necessary for the video file to be utilized properly? If the overhead is necessary then I would propose that the overhead should be included in the data rate. If it won't play properly without it then it should be included. While such things as subtitle data (if indeed subtitles are included on the disks for these features) might not be necessary for proper operation, TS/PES overhead (or similar header overhead) is most likely necessary and things such as this must be included in the data rate to not do so gives a false impression of the minimum data rate.

However, if subtitle data is included (it is common) then I would suggest that this should be included too since it is indeed part of the data stream (and is quite common).