El Cid (1961)

[pro-bassoonist]

Spirit media GmbH are set to release Anthony Mann's classic El Cid (1961) on August 21 in Germany.

Tech specs:
3-Disc combo (1BD/2DVD)
VC-1
German DTS-HD MA 5.1
English DTS-HD MA 5.1
BD-50 GB
Digital Copy
1920x1080p
Region-B


Variety:

El Cid is a fast-action color-rich, corpse-strewn, battle picture. The Spanish scenery is magnificent, the costumes are vivid, the chain mail and Toledo steel gear impressive. Perhaps the 11th century of art directors Veniero Colasanti and John Moore exceeds reality, but only scholars will complain of that. Action rather than acting characterizes this film.

Yet the film creates respect for its sheer picturemaking skills. Director Anthony Mann, with assists from associate producer Michael Waszynski who worked closely with him, battle manager Yakima Canutt, and a vast number of technicians, have labored to create stunning panoramic images.

Of acting there is less to say after acknowledging that Charlton Heston's masculine personality ideally suits the title role. His powerful performance is the central arch of the narrative. Sophia Loren, as first his sweetheart and later his wife, has a relatively passive role.

Two actors in King of Kings who remained over in Spain to appear in El Cid ended up as bit actors. Hurd Hatfield is the court herald in a couple of scenes, Frank Thring is a most unconvincing Moorish emir with a shaved noggin who lolls about in a harem registering a kind of sulky impatience.

Italy's Raf Vallone is the other man who never has a chance with Chimene. After betraying El Cid he is spared and, at a later period, becomes a follower only to die, tortured, by the invading North African monster, Britain's Herbert Lom.

Most provocative performance among the supporting players is that of Genevieve Page, as the self-willed princess who protects the weakling brother (John Fraser) who becomes king after she, sweet sibling, has the older brother slain.

1961: Nominations: Best Color Art Direction, Scoring of a Dramatic Picture, Song ('The Falcon and the Dove')
More than one option

(Color) Widescreen. Available on VHS, DVD. Extract of a review from 1961. Running time: 180 MIN.

Pro-B

[Deciazulado]

Pre-order

[bluskies]

Has anybody gotten this or Fall of the Roman Empire? I believe they were due out on the 21st. Does anybody know if there will be forced German subtitles or what exactly?

[Jeff Kleist]

Or region coding

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by bluskies

Has anybody gotten this or Fall of the Roman Empire? I believe they were due out on the 21st. Does anybody know if there will be forced German subtitles or what exactly?

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Or region coding

Mine is in the post... I'll report back when it arrives. However I doubt the subtitles will be forced rather than selectable, it's much easier to do in software.

[alphadec]

this is the kind of movies I am waiting for so I am very impressed that these are released.

Maybe I should import. ?

has anyone got this, yet ?

let us know what the picture quality is like.

[The Duke]

There seems to have been a slight delay for El Cid - I had a copy included in an order from Amazon.de with some other titles and 21 August releases and everything else shipped on the 20th, but I just received an email from Amazon that El Cid is being dispatched Monday the 24th.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by bluskies

Has anybody gotten this or Fall of the Roman Empire? I believe they were due out on the 21st. Does anybody know if there will be forced German subtitles or what exactly?

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Or region coding

Originally Posted by Kirsty_Mc

Mine is in the post... I'll report back when it arrives. However I doubt the subtitles will be forced rather than selectable, it's much easier to do in software.

Well, I got my Fall of the Roman Empire, so if this has any bearing on the other Anthony Mann movie, but here goes.

• Subtitles are switchable, not forced.
• Audio is DTS in German and English
• Coidec is AVC
• Region (per the packaging) is region B only.

If you have been reading the thread about DNR and Gladiator, then there must be an anti-Roman conspiracy as this has been smoothed to hell and back. Alec Guinness looks like a baby with a beard, it's that smooth. I couldn't even read SPQR on one of the standards, and it wasn't that far away. I couldn't distinguish the leaves on the trees or any fine detail during the early part of the movie set in the forests of Germania.

PQ is not a complete disaster, but for a Super Panavision (70mm) job, it's pretty disappointing... it could have been a lot lot better than this.

[Kirsty_Mc]

One interesting point... if you don't like the big ugly rating on the cover of "Fall of the Roman Empire", the sleeve has been printed both sides, so if you turn it round, you loose the rating logo.

[Oliver K]

I can confirm the region B coding and the pasty look for both movies.

Both look like their DVD counterparts with improved resolution.

How improved ? Think about half the possible resolution of HD to have a ballpark figure - so they are still better than the DVDs, especially El Cid, but not exactly what one could expect with a proper transfer and going back to the OCN.

So anybody who gets them is better off to keep his/her expectations low.

[WVbkelley]

Received my copy from Amazon today and yes it's another Blu-ray that suffers from DNR. It's at the level of Patton and The Longest Day, but to be honest its still much better than the DVD version shown on my 8ft wide screen. Overall detail is gone with no visible film grain and waxy faces, but the added resolution of 1080p is evident making it a much better experience than the restored DVD. The color is problematic - looking like the original film negative was not used. Some color shift and saturation that's odd looking at times.

I only wish these digital transfer folks from the studios and post production houses could take lessons from Warner Bros and the folks at Lowry Digital, who seem to do much of the excellent work for Warner and Disney.

The disc includes the commentary track featured on the two disc DVD from last year. Yes, it's coded for REGION B.

The second disc full of the extras found on the DVD from last year is coded in the PAL format. It played fine on my Oppo DVD player output to my Sanyo Z2000 projector. It also includes a third disc as a digital copy.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by TheVid54

I received both EL CID and FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE on blu-ray also, and am basically pleased with the upgraded transfers. The obligatory DNR is not too bad; as for the pasty faces, Guinness' and Plummer's pancake makeup is prominent and clearly visible. The color timing is pretty close to the prints: FALL shows a major improvement over the reddish dvd; CID slightly so. All the Bronston's had a golden hue in their theatrical presentations, and it's evident in the Blu-Ray transfers. The shadow detail is particularly good in both films, too. I've seen all the Bronston biggies in 70mm and they were not as generally crisp as most when originally shown (KING OF KINGS had the best quality) - some 70mm blowups (like BECKET and HAWAII) looked generally better. It's doubtful that these restorations were made from complete negatives, since consistency of image isn't a hallmark of either film; still, these blu-rays look about as good as the HD-DVD of SPARTACUS, and offer up a pretty terrific home theater presentation for 65mm images of the time.

The DTS soundtracks for CID and FALL both have more fidelity compared to the Dolby versions; Westrex recording flaws are more noticeable on both blu-rays, although the 4-track separations are still pretty impressive on both films. There seems to be no obligatory re-equilization for home video.

It's great to have both the Miriam restorations on blu-ray, albeit with a region-b lock. The fact that they weren't simultaneously released in the US is a travesty. Also, I really like the way the films just start up without even a main-menu pause. I can't stand being subjected to up-front adverstising of any kind (especially for roadshow presentations) even if you're allowed to skip over it.

WTF!!!

If these bunch had some footage of the moon by the time they finished with it, it would look like a billiard ball... and a brand new out of the package one at that.

Seriously have a look at your telly!!!

[Jeff Kleist]

So these are definately locked then?

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

So these are definately locked then?

Per the package on FOTRE, it is region locked to B. I have not yet tried it on my region A setup... I will do this tomorrow.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

So these are definately locked then?

I tried to play it on a player set to A and it did not work.

@TheVid54:

Several eye witnesses including members on other forums do strongly disagree with what you have to say here with regard to both the colors and also the detail level of the theatrical transfers.

The Fall of the Roman Empire especially has been called one of the most stunning theatrical presentations ever by several people who have seen it.

While I was not lucky yet to catch any of the Bronston movies theatrically from my own experience I have yet to see a movie shot on 70mm (after about 2 dozen watched) that looks even remotely as pasty as these Blu-Rays.

Robert A. Harris even suggested that it is better to destroy the HD masters these were made from. Thinking about how these COULD look if treated properly I would agree but of course the problem remains that we are unlikely to get better versions anytime soon.

So I am not saying that the Blu-Rays are not an improvement but there is a big difference between a competent master even from 35mm elements and what we see on these discs.

[eChopper]

agreed with Ollie - hardly a step up from the Miriam DVD's

[Oliver K]

I would like to add that Black Hill/Spirit Media is the company that holds the rights to El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire for only a restricted area and for a certain number of years so putting this out I did not expect them to go back to the original negative and truth be told I am glad they released the best material that is there - nobody else did.

From my perspective there are others involved that did not do as well:

1. The owners of the movies who do not seem to invest anything themselves in these movies.

2. Weinstein: If you get 35mm elements and decide to do an HD master why not do a proper job with what you have or at least refrain from overfiltering/softening/automatic dirt removal?
I don't know which tools were used but they surely resulted in these movies barely looking like film anymore and imo there is no excuse for that.
They probably meant well, but the end result certainly is not what it could have been.

There is a German company named TLE and they did very good work with several movies where they only had prints to work with. Knowing what they could have done with these prints it pains me to see what we got now.

Torsten Kaiser from TLE is a member here and maybe he can comment on the difficulties of bringing film prints intpo the digital realm instead of an OCN or IP, I will drop him a pm.

[Douglas R]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

@TheVid54:

Several eye witnesses including members on other forums do strongly disagree with what you have to say here with regard to both the colors and also the detail level of the theatrical transfers.

The Fall of the Roman Empire especially has been called one of the most stunning theatrical presentations ever by several people who have seen it.

Absolutely right. I saw FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE in 70mm when first released and it looked stunning, with incredible sharpness. One of the best looking 70mm films of all. It's a shame that probably no-one will see it like that again.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Douglas R

Absolutely right. I saw FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE in 70mm when first released and it looked stunning, with incredible sharpness. One of the best looking 70mm films of all. It's a shame that probably no-one will see it like that again.

Douglas,

you are one of the guys I was thinking about

I might be lucky to catch a not completely faded premiere print of Fall this year or next year, keeping my fingers crossed...

[Oliver K]

To add to my last post: Sometimes things come true sooner than we think:

http://www.in70mm.com/festival/2009/index.htm

On Sunday the 4th of October I will attend the screening of a vintage 70mm print of Fall of the Roman Empire