So I FINALLY got a PS3 over the weekend

[Blu-ray San]

After being at the right place at the right time, I gave a look at EBGames friday night before they closed and luckily they had one.

I get home and hook it all up to my TV, audio, etc. Popped in X-Men 3 before anything else, booted up pretty quick, had some great picture quality!! Then I wanted to try one of the earlier BD movies released like Italian Job and the Punisher and noticed a lot of grain It's not an extreme issue to me but I don't understand why movie studios can't just release BD's using VC-1 or even AVS. I know there has been talk about this already on the forums but now that I have a BD player I know from experience.

Also, has anyone had any problems with Gone in 60 seconds? (shows POTC in previews in HD)While watching it last night, my PS3 froze around the middle of the movie then i had to restart it it did it again later on towards the end. ??????
It has only happend to this movie so far, but I haven't watched anything else to their entiredy yet so I'm not sure.

I hope this is a disc prob and not a PS3 issue because I remember my first PS2 having the same problem with some DVD movies.


Other than that, I am in love with this thing!!

[phranctoast]

i was so anxious to pop movies and games into the thing as soon as I brought it home, but after reading so much stuff on the internet, i made sure i had the update, and all my video settings were top notch and exactly how they should be before attempting to watch a movie. Ive been happy ever since.

[JTK]

I've seen some scattered complaints about Gone in 60 Seconds.

Probably some bad discs got out there. Get it exchanged.

[Blu-ray San]

Originally Posted by JTK

I've seen some scattered complaints about Gone in 60 Seconds.

Probably some bad discs got out there. Get it exchanged.

I'll be sure the check the rest of my movies when I get home but otherwise
THANK YOU!!! So glad to hear it's the movie and not my PS3 (knock on wood)

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray San

I get home and hook it all up to my TV, audio, etc. Popped in X-Men 3 before anything else, booted up pretty quick, had some great picture quality!! Then I wanted to try one of the earlier BD movies released like Italian Job and the Punisher and noticed a lot of grain It's not an extreme issue to me but I don't understand why movie studios can't just release BD's using VC-1 or even AVS. I know there has been talk about this already on the forums but now that I have a BD player I know from experience.

Congratulations on getting your PS/3.

Are you seeing grain or compression noise? There is a critical difference. One is showing transparency to the film source (grain) the other a failure of the compression (noise).

Peter M. Bracke at highdefdigest.com gave both the HD DVD (VC-1) and BD (MPEG-2) versions the exact same PQ score for the Italian Job. And saw the exact same issues in both.

Perhaps, as also has been talked a lot about, you're seeing inherent issues in the underlying master, rather than a problem with the MPEG-2 codec?

Gary

[shido]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray San

After being at the right place at the right time, I gave a look at EBGames friday night before they closed and luckily they had one.

I get home and hook it all up to my TV, audio, etc. Popped in X-Men 3 before anything else, booted up pretty quick, had some great picture quality!! Then I wanted to try one of the earlier BD movies released like Italian Job and the Punisher and noticed a lot of grain It's not an extreme issue to me but I don't understand why movie studios can't just release BD's using VC-1 or even AVS. I know there has been talk about this already on the forums but now that I have a BD player I know from experience.

Also, has anyone had any problems with Gone in 60 seconds? (shows POTC in previews in HD)While watching it last night, my PS3 froze around the middle of the movie then i had to restart it it did it again later on towards the end. ??????
It has only happend to this movie so far, but I haven't watched anything else to their entiredy yet so I'm not sure.

I hope this is a disc prob and not a PS3 issue because I remember my first PS2 having the same problem with some DVD movies.


Other than that, I am in love with this thing!!

Grain doesn't mean poor codec, as grain is inherent to the source material. So no, there's nothing wrong with Mpeg2 - the grain you saw in those movies are probably in the source.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray San

Then I wanted to try one of the earlier BD movies released like Italian Job and the Punisher and noticed a lot of grain

Always remember to check your sharpness setting, if all you were playing before was DVDs or even 1080i filtered broadcasts, you may have it up to compensate, and now with a higher frequency signal (resolution) you may be boosting the grain a little too much. If that's the case, I'd recommend lowering the sharpness setting to the minimum till it's blurry, and then bringing it back up slowly till it "focuses", and then stop. I usually have to do that practically to all my friends TV sets anyway when they ask me to calibrate them,. Even for DVD playback! A little adjustment goes a long way. Then after that, you can play with the setting in small increments, adjusting for taste, if a particular transfer is "soft' or "grainy"

Oh another thing: most LCDs and rear view DLPs today are set very bright, things like 100% white at 100 ft.L or even more! SMPTE mastering CRTs are set to 100% white = 35 ft.L or so, while on movie theaters, films are projected so that the maximum white (transparent film base) is about 12 - 14 ft.L

Why do I bring this up? Because due to how the eye works, it's more sensitive to change in motion (film grain, or noise, boiling away is motion) so even if the BD transfer had exactly the same amount of grain than the film, on a brighter LCD it would be more noticeable, even tho the transfer is being 100% accurate . Maybe this could be one explanation why some people are finding their High Definition movies (that have all the resolution to show down to fine details) "grainy"? No, the solution is not to bleach the grain away in the transfer, after all, grain composes the image itself. Maybe turn down the lights, watch movies a little bit dimmer, more like in the theater? (Specially when in the company of your Kate ). Oh btw, dimmer also makes the 3:2 pulldown be less perceptible too.

[Blu-ray San]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Always remember to check your sharpness setting, if all you were playing before was DVDs or even 1080i filtered broadcasts, you may have it up to compensate, and now with a higher frequency signal (resolution) you may be boosting the grain a little too much. If that's the case, I'd recommend lowering the sharpness setting to the minimum till it's blurry, and then bringing it back up slowly till it "focuses", and then stop. I usually have to do that practically to all my friends TV sets anyway when they ask me to calibrate them,. Even for DVD playback! A little adjustment goes a long way. Then after that, you can play with the setting in small increments, adjusting for taste, if a particular transfer is "soft' or "grainy"

Oh another thing: most LCDs and rear view DLPs today are set very bright, things like 100% white at 100 ft.L or even more! SMPTE mastering CRTs are set to 100% white = 35 ft.L or so, while on movie theaters, films are projected so that the maximum white (transparent film base) is about 12 - 14 ft.L

Why do I bring this up? Because due to how the eye works, it's more sensitive to change in motion (film grain, or noise, boiling away is motion) so even if the BD transfer had exactly the same amount of grain than the film, on a brighter LCD it would be more noticeable, even tho the transfer is being 100% accurate . Maybe this could be one explanation why some people are finding their High Definition movies (that have all the resolution to show down to fine details) "grainy"? No, the solution is not to bleach the grain away in the transfer, after all, grain composes the image itself. Maybe turn down the lights, watch movies a little bit dimmer, more like in the theater? (Specially when in the company of your Kate ). Oh btw, dimmer also makes the 3:2 pulldown be less perceptible too.

Thanks for the input, although I did try all stated above but no real dramatic change. Both the Punisher and Italian Job have the same grain on screen. Even Superman has a bit but not much. I say all of this after watching King Kong on HD-DVD which looks great.

It's not too big of a deal to me because I still prefer blu-ray over HD-DVD and my Playstation 3 is an amazing player!!!

Next is the silver (with glass frame) 46" Sony Bravia XBR 1080p LCD TV

[BTBuck1]

italian job is available on HDDVD in VC-1 and looks like crap there too.
The punisher is a dark, grainy experience. to date i feel it's the worst presentation I have on Blu-Ray. I rate it lower than House of FLying daggers.

get some mi3, tears of the sun, black hawk down, click, swordfish you will be happy.

i'll try Gone in 60 sec on my ps3. it didn't miss a beat on my samsung though. I have had one freeze on superman the movie, that was it though.

[theknub]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray San

Even Superman has a bit but not much. I say all of this after watching King Kong on HD-DVD which looks great.

which superman?

[Blu-ray San]

Superman Returns

[Boss Hogg]

I've noticed the same grainy-ness from my PS3 as well....came on here to see if it was the PS3 or the movie. I mean the movie looks great - very detailed, but you definitely can see some grain and if you pause it and go up close the picture looks TERRIBLE! I saw the same results for both "Full Metal Jacket" and "Saw". Kind of disappointing but I'll try turning down the brightness of my LCD and see if that helps hide it at all.

[Bruuce]

I haven't seen FMJ but hear it has some grain in it. I own Saw and I can confirm I saw lots of grain. At least it had vivid colors hehe.

[BTBuck1]

Blu-Ray San...anymore problems? I havent had a chance to watch gone in 60 sec yet.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Bruuce

I haven't seen FMJ but hear it has some grain in it. I own Saw and I can confirm I saw lots of grain. At least it had vivid colors hehe.

Again, true film images are made up of grain, some film stocks have more some have less, some film format sizes are bigger so they give less impression of grain, some are smaller and give more impression of grain. What you have to ask is: if the disc transfer has MORE than the theatrical presentation, without being any sharper at the same time. Only if you saw the theatrical presentation at the same picture height viewing distance as you watch the discs at home can you compare. Otherwise it's just speculating if the transfer has "added" grain that wasn't there or not. Not every film will look like a CGI Finding Nemo.

Notice I said "without being sharper". There could be the case that the disc is sharper (more edge contrast) than a theater's on-screen image, and therefore, the grain in the disc image will be sharper too. That is not added grain, you're just seeing it better. Added grain or extraneous noise would be when it is something that wasn't in the original image: Bad grainy 35mm dupe, improper equipment, excessive compression noise, etc.

[dialog_gvf]

There are already some speculating that VC-1 is "smoothing" the grain to get the bit-rates.

We have people going completely nuts when a title is released that doesn't "pop". People aren't reacting well to grain.

This is going to have a couple of consequences. First, the DPs are probably going to be pushed toward digital cameras or low-grain stock for the future. And second, there is going to be tremendous pressure to apply advanced grain reduction techniques to the titles as well as artificially sharpening and colour boosting.

I can already predict that there will be people complaining how the colour is washed out in "O Brother, Where Art Thou?".

The key will be to get the DP or director's approval for any cleanup. I don't have a problem with eliminating the grain if it doesn't soften, and if the grain is an artifact of the stock and not intentional. But, it is imperative that the the film maintain the intent of the creators. If they wanted grain in whole or in part, that must be respected.

Gary

[Boss Hogg]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Again, true film images are made up of grain, some film stocks have more some have less, some film format sizes are bigger so they give less impression of grain, some are smaller and give more impression of grain. What you have to ask is: if the disc transfer has MORE than the theatrical presentation, without being any sharper at the same time. Only if you saw the theatrical presentation at the same picture height viewing distance as you watch the discs at home can you compare. Otherwise it's just speculating if the transfer has "added" grain that wasn't there or not. Not every film will look like a CGI Finding Nemo.

Notice I said "without being sharper". There could be the case that the disc is sharper (more edge contrast) than a theater's on-screen image, and therefore, the grain in the disc image will be sharper too. That is not added grain, you're just seeing it better. Added grain or extraneous noise would be when it is something that wasn't in the original image: Bad grainy 35mm dupe, improper equipment, excessive compression noise, etc.

I do believe you are correct....but this doesn't bode well for the high def formats IMO.....realistic or not, people like me are expecting a prestine picture when they spend this kind of money. I swear I've seen some movies playing in high def at places like Best Buy that are grain free....not sure what movies but they looked perfect, and it wasn't a TV-feed as far as I know.

[Boss Hogg]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

The key will be to get the DP or director's approval for any cleanup. I don't have a problem with eliminating the grain if it doesn't soften, and if the grain is an artifact of the stock and not intentional. But, it is imperative that the the film maintain the intent of the creators. If they wanted grain in whole or in part, that must be respected.
Gary

That could be but directors will (should) learn real quick to eliminate the graininess when people quit buying their grainy movies.

[Deciazulado]

But people don't complaint or stop buying movie tickets because of that. So why for High Def on discs should it be any different? It's all these years of watching movies in shrunk DVDs and VHS on 27" TVs at 9 feet. At that 300-fold reduction (from 700 pixels on the movie theater screen being watched at 1.5PH, to 350 or less on the DVD being watched at 9PH) the grain disappears and you can make an image uber clean. But at full 1080 (or 800 for Scope) that's not gonna happen. Unless you erase it artificially.

What dialog_gvf is afraid of, has already happened in the world of audio. They thought CDs should be hiss free and they ruined plenty of a recording on CD that way. Then you have people looking for 23 year old CDs mastered before the $15 remasters were no-noised to death, and paying $100 for them to get to hear the real original untampered-with sound.