A Change For Possible PS4 Cell Chip

[Ascended_Saiyan]

I know we all heard about the "Cell 3" with 32 SPEs and 2 PPEs. Apparently, that has changed. The new possible chip design is 32 SPEs and 4 PPEs (page 10).

Here are some highlights:

􀂃 100% backward compatible
􀂃 Performance on PPE significantly better
􀂃 Performance per SPE equal or better
– Significantly better on applications that benefit from new instructions
􀂃 Better inter-SPE latency
􀂃 More on-chip memory
􀂃 Better main memory latency and bandwidth

They are aiming for 1 TeraFLOPS performance from that chip! Just as a reference, the Cell in the PS3 is capable of 204 GigaFLOPS. This is projected for 2010/2011. 2011 is probably when we will see the PS4. I doubt this is a coincidence.

[Drew664]

This is going to be a real stupid question, but you seem to know your tech stuff.

I know games on Blu Ray have a slower read speed than DVD, is it possible to have two lenses reading the same disc? Maybe utilize all of this technology to be able to decode the game twice as fast with two lenses.

Your thoughts?

[ADRiiAN`]

I thought the PS3 was suppose to be a 10 year project?

It came out in 2006, so it would end in 2016 correct?

I can see that technology happening, I mean, they've got 8-core processors already (in a Mac) so have 1 TeraFLOPS in 2011 could be in reach.

But as for a PS4, I can't see it coming in 2011, Possibly 2012 - 2013 though

[Charles3669]

I thought the ps3 was to have a 10 yr cycle and the ps4 would come out later than that.

[DetroitSportsFan]

"Life cycle" means that there is still games being produced for it.

PS2 is still "alive" in its 8th year because there is still games being made for it, even though it's pretty much now irrelevant to us here.

So if PS4 comes in 2011/2012 the PS3 will still be in its life cycle as long as it keeps getting new games.

[Charles3669]

Well I guess that makes sense, but would they really be developing games for the ps3 for 4 more years after the ps4 comes? I don't see ps2 going for 4 more years.

[jubei29]

Is it just me or does anyone else have the feeling that consoles are heading into the realm of pcs? I wouldn't be surprised to see a console in the near future that just updates graphic cards and operating systems.

[ToonyLoons]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

"Life cycle" means that there is still games being produced for it.

PS2 is still "alive" in its 8th year because there is still games being made for it, even though it's pretty much now irrelevant to us here.

So if PS4 comes in 2011/2012 the PS3 will still be in its life cycle as long as it keeps getting new games.

Yes, the PS1 and PS2 had it's successor come out before the end of its life cycle. PS2 was in year 6 when the PS3 hit the market. We are in year 2 for the PS3 and games are still coming out for the PS2 and sales are still going strong. The PS3 could and most likely trend the same way.

My only concern is that MS will once again rush out a system, almost forcing Sony to release or announce the PS4 before they are really ready to.

[ToonyLoons]

Originally Posted by jubei29

Is it just me or does anyone else have the feeling that consoles are heading into the realm of pcs? I wouldn't be surprised to see a console in the near future that just updates graphic cards and operating systems.

One draw of console gaming is that you dont have to upgrade and everything works. If I buy a PS3 game, it will work on my PS3. I dont have to make sure I have the correct processor or graphics card. Although the systems are more PC like now in the way they operate and are able to multitask and do more then just gaming now.

A company could try an upgrading strategy with a console, but I don't that it would work. History has shown us that add-on's and upgrades do not sale well for home consoles. Plus the general public probably would not want to read a required/recommend spec's on their console games like PC gamers without top of the line rigs do to see if the game will work.

[PS3-Playb3yond]

Argh......my head hurts. Too.....much....high-tech lol.

I don't get all of this stuff but it sounds good. It's unlikely the PS4 to come as early as 2011 though.

[jubei29]

Originally Posted by ToonyLoons

One draw of console gaming is that you dont have to upgrade and everything works. If I buy a PS3 game, it will work on my PS3. I dont have to make sure I have the correct processor or graphics card. Although the systems are more PC like now in the way they operate and are able to multitask and do more then just gaming now.

A company could try an upgrading strategy with a console, but I don't that it would work. History has shown us that add-on's and upgrades do not sale well for home consoles. Plus the general public probably would not want to read a required/recommend spec's on their console games like PC gamers without top of the line rigs do to see if the game will work.

I'm not doubting the PS3 life span, but consoles of the future, I don't know, it just seems like it's getting to close to pcs. We already have the installs and the rate at which technology continues to advance, the decline in pc gaming itself, it just seems like consoles are going to try and replace the pc as a gaming machine and sell it to us as the next greatest thing. Who knows, I'm just thinking out loud.

[CAB]

Originally Posted by Drew664

This is going to be a real stupid question, but you seem to know your tech stuff.

I know games on Blu Ray have a slower read speed than DVD, is it possible to have two lenses reading the same disc? Maybe utilize all of this technology to be able to decode the game twice as fast with two lenses.

Your thoughts?

All 1x's are not created equal.

1x CD = 1.2'ish Mbit/s
1x DVD = 11'ish Mbit/s
1x BD = 32'ish Mbit/s

I think BD movie players run at 1.5x. Anyone care to help me with the numbers?

[Terjyn]

The lifecycle isn't even as long as they continue to produce games, it's as long as they continue to produce the console.

The PS1 was recently retired with something like a 12 year lifecycle, although no new games came out for the last few years.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by CAB

All 1x's are not created equal.

1x CD = 1.2'ish Mbit/s
1x DVD = 11'ish Mbit/s
1x BD = 32'ish Mbit/s

I think BD movie players run at 1.5x. Anyone care to help me with the numbers?

I think the 2x BD is roughly equal to 8x DVD when all is said and done. Don't remember the exact details but it was around there for games anyway. I think your right that movies only run at the 1.5x speed.

[AliceT]

Life cycle is different than the console refresh cycle. A "next gen" of each console is typically 5 years between. Exception was ps2 to ps3 which was 6 years. PS1 1995, PS2 2000, PS3 2006. Id expect the next Xbox at the end of 2010, based upon the launch in 2005. Nintendo, who knows. They may want to hold back a new console depending on how well the Wii keeps selling. When Sony says a 10 year "life cycle" they mean they plan on supporting the console for 10 years, not that they wont come out with a new system in that time period. Honestly, if they went by 10 year cycles, the ps2 would have just come out 3 years ago.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by jubei29

I'm not doubting the PS3 life span, but consoles of the future, I don't know, it just seems like it's getting to close to pcs.

Well Ken Kutagari always referred to the PS3 as a computer and not a game console. He was quite specific about that and you can see that playing out more and more. Regardless, the big difference is the reference hardware that gives consoles their appeal - stability for devs in particular...and therefore consumers by extension. If they lose that appeal they lose that audience to a certain degree.

Originally Posted by jubei29

it just seems like consoles are going to try and replace the pc as a gaming machine and sell it to us as the next greatest thing.

They already have to a certain degree and in a way the Wii indicates a greater appetite for that to accelerate - most consumers are overwhelmed by the game controller complexity of most PC games and even the traditional console controllers are initimidating for many. I don't see the PC game industry being able to "get" that because no one is in charge - which is the strength and curse of that industry.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by AliceT

Life cycle is different than the console refresh cycle. A "next gen" of each console is typically 5 years between. Exception was ps2 to ps3 which was 6 years. PS1 1995, PS2 2000, PS3 2006. Id expect the next Xbox at the end of 2010, based upon the launch in 2005. Nintendo, who knows. They may want to hold back a new console depending on how well the Wii keeps selling. When Sony says a 10 year "life cycle" they mean they plan on supporting the console for 10 years, not that they wont come out with a new system in that time period. Honestly, if they went by 10 year cycles, the ps2 would have just come out 3 years ago.

The PS3 was intended to be 5 as well .. but the blu-ray diode delay bumped it. It's definitely a strategic question if they will shorten the time to the PS4 in order to re-align .. as there is no doubt in my mind MS is looking at 2010.

[Gamekid]

According to Sony, the consoles have a six year lifespan because ps1 was out in 1994, ps2 out in 2000 and ps3 out in 2006 so the ps4 would be out in 2012, however I may be a little off here. Even if the ps4 is out in 2012, not everyone will have one on launch day and I know that we'll see the best of what the ps3 has to offer before 2012 is upon us because the ps3 has come a long way since launch day and Sony wants to provide us with what we want, new stuff.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Drew664

This is going to be a real stupid question, but you seem to know your tech stuff.

I know games on Blu Ray have a slower read speed than DVD, is it possible to have two lenses reading the same disc? Maybe utilize all of this technology to be able to decode the game twice as fast with two lenses.

Your thoughts?

Sorry, I didn't come back here at the time you posted your question.

Anyway, the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 is FASTER than the DVD drive in the Xbox 360 (that's why I figured you thought that).

The 12x DVD drive in the 360 is ONLY for single layer DVDs (most games are on dual layered DVDs...DVD9). On dual layer DVDs the drive slows to a MAX of 8x speed. It can only reach that speed near the outer most portion of the disc.

The 2x BD drive reads at that speed from beginning to the end of the disc. The works out to the following numbers:

Dual Layer DVDs (X360) = 7.93MB/s
Blu-ray Drive (PS3) = 9MB/s

So, the BD drive is faster than ANY dual-layered DVD gaming console on the market.

I believe the PS4 might have a 8x BD drive or better.
----------------------------

It is possible to use two lasers for faster layer changes, but I don't know about faster read speeds. The disc can only spin in one direction. The motors will only slide across the disc. There will still be a distance in-between the two lasers that has to be read by the last laser. It could be buffered but you would still pay for it in time waiting for it to get started due to the initial buffering. Therefore, I don't see how it would be possible using a variation of what's used in readers today. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying I don't know how it would/could be done without insane pricing for such a thing.

I've always observed that an increase in optical read speed almost always or always comes from an increase in disc speed only.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by jubei29

I'm not doubting the PS3 life span, but consoles of the future, I don't know, it just seems like it's getting to close to pcs. We already have the installs and the rate at which technology continues to advance, the decline in pc gaming itself, it just seems like consoles are going to try and replace the pc as a gaming machine and sell it to us as the next greatest thing. Who knows, I'm just thinking out loud.

Media hubs are the future. They want these devices to be your gateway to entertainment in your home. If you want to play games, it's great at that. If you want to listen to music through your home, it's great at that. If you want to watch movies, it's great at that. If you want to show your photos to visiting family and friends, it's great at that. If you want to surf the web, it's okay at that.

See...game consoles need to become more and more powerful to provide more and more immersive environments. Gaming has been pushing tech forward since the beginning (the Wii being the only exception AFAIK). The SAME tech can allow for you to do many other things besides gaming.

Sony and Microsoft have figured out that gaming is not people's ENTIRE lives. They are trying to cover those bases as well (just like Microsoft). Welcome to the battle for your living room!

I, for one, am enjoying these benefits. I have never gotten this much use out of my console before. And, it has uncluttered my equipment rack (it replaces 3 products that would be there otherwise).

Originally Posted by Gamekid

According to Sony, the consoles have a six year lifespan because ps1 was out in 1994, ps2 out in 2000 and ps3 out in 2006 so the ps4 would be out in 2012, however I may be a little off here. Even if the ps4 is out in 2012, not everyone will have one on launch day and I know that we'll see the best of what the ps3 has to offer before 2012 is upon us because the ps3 has come a long way since launch day and Sony wants to provide us with what we want, new stuff.

I think Microsoft may force Sony out early by rushing their console out...again. MS likes that head start. Then, they can use fuzzy logic like...we have sold more units so far...like they didn't have a head start.

Of course, this time around, all the Cell programming skills will transfer over to the PS4. Developers will have to learn how to program for MS next offering. In other words, ease of development will be with Sony next time around. The only thing that will need to be learned is how to take advantage of the new GPU.