Most IMPORTANT Componant?

[Johnny Vinyl]

I've been here for a about a year now and have read (and participated) in many forum questions. One of the things I noticed is that many people think their speakers are the primary componants, because it's what they oftentimes spend the most money on. And although one should have good speakers, I beg to differ with many and must say they are probably your least important componant. That doesn't mean I'm saying you should buy crap speakers, because it won't make a difference anyway. I'm saying that the most important componant is NOT your speakers.

IMHO....the most important componant in your system is your "SOURCE"! And your source componants are your HDTV, your BD/DVD/PS3, your turntable, your CD/SACD player, etc.

The next most important componant in your system is your A/V Receiver or Pre/Power Amp config, etc., and then your speakers.

The media we choose to invest in (CD/SACD/DVD/DVD-Audio/Blu-ray/Vinyl LP) contains information that we should be able to hear and/or see. A cheap or very inexpensive (and they don't always go hand in hand) source cannot output all of the information on said media. As such, you're not getting what the artists wanted you to hear/see. And no receiver/pre-power combo can make up for that lack of information being provided by that source. Nor can your speakers make it magically appear.

So next time you decide you want to upgrade your system...think SOURCE! You'll get a greater bang for your buck and you'll hear things you ain't never heard before.

What do you all think?

[SS316SRV]

Would the TV be considered the a source?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by SS316SRV

Would the TV be considered the a source?

Absolutely! I mentioned that in my post.

[Beta Man]

I respectfully disagree with you.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I respectfully disagree with you.

You are indeed entitled to Beta Man! And I respect your opinion!

[SS316SRV]

Originally Posted by John72953

Absolutely! I mentioned that in my post.

I can see why the television provider is important, ie cable/satelite. But the TV set itself is not a source.

[teemacone]

How is a television a source? It is an output monitor that accepts video/audio "source" data.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by teemacone

How is a television a source? It is an output monitor that accepts video/audio "source" data.

In technical terms no it isn't.

I will admit error in that regard.

[Beta Man]

I just look at it this way.... and follow with me if you will.....


Ex: focus on audio only... assume you have Stand-alone Blu player and HDTV

Budget: $10,000

Player for audio (sacd/DVDA/CD/Vinyl, whatever) $300 or so

AVR $500-$600


Speakers about $9,000


OR


Budget: $10,000

Player for audio $2,000

Separate Pre-pro and amps @ $7,500

Speakers for $500




Obviously no specific models etc were given, and although I wouldn't pick either of these strategies for setting up a multi-channel audio setup, it's pretty obvious which one would sound better......

With the increase in speaker quality, your preceivable gain in audio quality increases significantly, and once you hit a certain mark of quality in Separates, or AVR, etc... you are at a point of diminishing rate of return.....


Take televisions for instance..... If a 120hz 1080p Plasma was $2,000 MORE than a 1080p plasma that was only 60hz, but the same size, would you spend the extra $2,000 for that marginal return??? I'm not saying it's not a difference that you can't notice.... I'm just saying if the two TVs (I guess I could use specific models, by the same manufacturer) were in the store side by side, and one was $4k, and one was $2k would you pay twice as much for 120hz vs. 60hz??? if it's a couple hundred dollars difference (like it is now) I say "sure" go for it... worth it.... but at $2k is it??? Same thing happens with components.

I have spent $1,000 or so on a dedicated CD player, and I'd spend $1,000 on a turn-table, but would I spend $5,000 ??? Nope.... it hits a point of diminishing return for me.


and by the way.... I see you haven't made the leap into the world of separates.... so that diminishing return is hitting home for you isn't it???? We both know separates will improve our audio quality for our setups.... but I haven't been able to justify the expense yet.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Take televisions for instance..... If a 120hz 1080p LCD was $2,000 MORE than a 1080p LCD that was only 60hz, but the same size, would you spend the extra $2,000 for that marginal return???

Fixed, they don't make 120 hz plasmas since plasmas can accept 1080p/24 soucres at 72hz.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

Fixed, they don't make 120 hz plasmas since plasmas can accept 1080p/24 soucres at 72hz.

thanks.... I know very little about video

Obviously I skimped on video, and focus my cash on my audio

[mdabb]

I would have to say your speakers are the end result in terms of audio. You can have the best receiver in the world but if your speakers aren't exactly capable you have then voided the entire purpose of hi-fidelity.

I recently just upgraded speakers and I can tell you I am now hearing things in such clarity and detail I didn't even realize it was there. Speakers have a huge impact.

It is important to have nice components but how are you going to listen to them?


Your system is as great as your weakest link and that would include your room and the way you have your system set up.


Try some new speakers if you are in need of an upgrade fix. Especially if you already have nice equipment. Then again you might want to try tweaking your setup 1st....I.E. speaker placement and figuring out the acoustics of your room.

I have this book on order and it was highly recommended. Others may want to look into it as well.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071360972/

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I just look at it this way.... and follow with me if you will.....


Ex: focus on audio only... assume you have Stand-alone Blu player and HDTV

Budget: $10,000

Player for audio (sacd/DVDA/CD/Vinyl, whatever) $300 or so

AVR $500-$600


Speakers about $9,000


OR


Budget: $10,000

Player for audio $2,000

Separate Pre-pro and amps @ $7,500

Speakers for $500




Obviously no specific models etc were given, and although I wouldn't pick either of these strategies for setting up a multi-channel audio setup, it's pretty obvious which one would sound better......

With the increase in speaker quality, your preceivable gain in audio quality increases significantly, and once you hit a certain mark of quality in Separates, or AVR, etc... you are at a point of diminishing rate of return.....


Take televisions for instance..... If a 120hz 1080p Plasma was $2,000 MORE than a 1080p plasma that was only 60hz, but the same size, would you spend the extra $2,000 for that marginal return??? I'm not saying it's not a difference that you can't notice.... I'm just saying if the two TVs (I guess I could use specific models, by the same manufacturer) were in the store side by side, and one was $4k, and one was $2k would you pay twice as much for 120hz vs. 60hz??? if it's a couple hundred dollars difference (like it is now) I say "sure" go for it... worth it.... but at $2k is it??? Same thing happens with components.

I have spent $1,000 or so on a dedicated CD player, and I'd spend $1,000 on a turn-table, but would I spend $5,000 ??? Nope.... it hits a point of diminishing return for me.


and by the way.... I see you haven't made the leap into the world of separates.... so that diminishing return is hitting home for you isn't it???? We both know separates will improve our audio quality for our setups.... but I haven't been able to justify the expense yet.

I never insisted that by recognizing your sources as the primary componants, that you should spend the most money on it. But I will agree with you on the diminishing returns factor. My turntable and cartridge is probably worth around $1,200 and that's sufficient for me. I may one day upgrade it, but I certainly wouldn't spend $5,000 on a new one either. And your comparison about TV's is true as well.

I had separates years ago (McIntosh, Krell), but I had to unload them. Damn, divorce is a *****! Just starting to slowly build back up and separates are definately in the future.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Obviously I skimped on video, and focus my cash on my audio

That must have been before your new projector arrived.

Congrats.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by mdabb

I would have to say your speakers are the end result in terms of audio. You can have the best receiver in the world but if your speakers aren't exactly capable you have then voided the entire purpose of hi-fidelity.

I recently just upgraded speakers and I can tell you I am now hearing things in such clarity and detail I didn't even realize it was there. Speakers have a huge impact.

It is important to have nice components but how are you going to listen to them?


Your system is as great as your weakest link and that would include your room and the way you have your system set up.


Try some new speakers if you are in need of an upgrade fix. Especially if you already have nice equipment. Then again you might want to try tweaking your setup 1st....I.E. speaker placement and figuring out the acoustics of your room.

I have this book on order and it was highly recommended. Others may want to look into it as well.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071360972/

Any upgrade will make a difference and certainly better quality speakers fit right into that. And so do the various tweaks one can incorporate, such as speaker placement, cables, interconnect, room treatment acoustics, etc.

But respectfully, I think you've missed my point. If it can't reproduce your media from the initial source...you're NOT and NEVER will get all of the information that you paid for.

[RUR]

Setting aside video for a moment....

If you asked a bunch of well-respected audio experts, all of them would tell you that the two components which have the most significant effect on audio quality are:
1) Speakers and
2) Your room (i.e. how it's set up and treated to handle room nodes, reflections, etc.)

Everything else is secondary.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

That must have been before your new projector arrived.

Congrats.

It was less than the cost of ONE surround speaker..... so I consider that "budget concious" if I was a big videophile (I don't consider myself an audiophile either) I would have budgeted FAR MORE for a projector.....

[SS316SRV]

I would rather skimp on a receiver in order to get better speakers.

[Beta Man]

components aside..... many people fail to have regularly scheduled Audiologist visits...... you gotta protect your ears.... (I'm only 29, soon to be 30, but already had an appointment.... I hear GREAT!)

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by RUR

Setting aside video for a moment....

If you asked a bunch of well-respected audio experts, all of them would tell you that the two components which have the most significant effect on audio quality are:
1) Speakers and
2) Your room (i.e. how it's set up and treated to handle room nodes, reflections, etc.)

Everything else is secondary.

Respectfully....I couldn't disagree with you more!

You could have a set of Wilson-Watt Puppies staring you in the face, but as long as you play PF's DSOTM on a source that is sub-standard, those puppies are still not going to allow you to hear EVERYTHING in the music.

I maintain my stance! (lol) The source is primary!