Hi-Def Audio PCM 5.1/Regular CD player.

[SlyFly]

As per subject title. For those who are confused with the coin-phrase "hi-def audio" .. PCM sound 2 Channel is a regular 1983 cd player at 16 bit quality at 44.1khz/48khz.

so put your confusion to the side and realize that 6/7 channels of uncompressed 6/7 channel audio on most blu-disc is 16 bit 48khz sound quality/ cd-quality sound.

There is no high-def audio until you put in an hd-disc that has 20 bit 96khz sound and above.

the only component is that some cd players can only play 2 channel sound where a SACD/HDCD or blu-disc player can play multi-channel film soundtracks at "cd-quality" sound.

so put your ps3 away and realize with only your analog inputs your 7.1 analog only 2 channel digital SPDIF input will do you no good for 6 channel digital audio uncompressed playback.

Unless of course you have an HDMI audio receiver.


Thank you and have a nice day.

[theknub]

what is the point of your post? i can see what ur trying to do. i don't have hdmi so i know i can't transport some of the hi-def formats. however, my receiver does handle 96khz. if i feed it a higher bitrate say at 1.5 per channel, i can experience better core sound even if it isn't "true" hi-def

[SlyFly]

i'm only explaining the fact that cd quality sound is 16/48. which has been around for ages. the coin-phrase "hi-def audio" from blu-disc is uncompressed 5.1 pcm audio.

my point is the bar has not been raised. so i'm relaying the fact that pcm is the same as cd player audio and some people are obviously confused.

to further that, i mentioned that the PS3 can only do PCM 2.0 w/o using HDMI on blu-disc. This the same as a cd player if you do not have HDMI input on your audio receiver.

I would prefer if people would stop indicating that 16/48 pcm audio is hi-def audio. it's not.

Yes pcm is superior to ac3 but that does not make it a hi-def format because cd-audio as been around for 25 years.

[theknub]

ok. first, u are correct, pcm in 5.1 can only be transmitted over hdmi. all the regular posters here are very aware of this.

second, this is a vast improvement over what current DD and DTS provide. so, comparatively, it is hi-def. thus, there is a raising of the bar.

third, just because something has been around doesn't mean it isn't hi-def. take old masters from 50 years ago. these are obviously much better than anything we have seen on DVD. if we scan them in at high resolution, they will be much better and we can claim 1080p for them. this is hi-def, correct? the same goes for sound, something may have existed but was never a practical option. having it today in better form does make it hi-def.

[SlyFly]

your response indicates that film soundtracks have moved from AC3 5.1 to PCM 5.1 and thus raised the bar to hi-def audio for soundtracks.

Wrong. why ?

simple really. AC3 was an answer to a problem. AC3 is a lossy-format to handle 6 channels or more of sound. It was a retrograde from the cd-player high fidelity quality that has been in place since the 80's.

Since AC3 has only now been put on the back burner and now the actually quality of sound has moved back to it's original sound quality --- that of the cd-quality fidelity sound.

Hi-def audio Is "Studio-Quality". which is 20/24 bit audio boasting sampling frequencies at 96khz to 192khz and beyond which has been around since probably 1998.

Blu-ray is taking advantage of the current culture of mp3 "near-cd quality" to boast a hi-def format in cd-quality\dvd-a form.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by SlyFly

back to it's original sound quality --- that of the cd-quality fidelity sound.

Hi-def audio Is "Studio-Quality". which is 20/24 bit audio boasting sampling frequencies at 96khz to 192khz and beyond which has been around since probably 1998.

Blu-ray is taking advantage of the current culture of mp3 "near-cd quality" to boast a hi-def format in cd-quality\dvd-a form.

I'll defer the exact details to paidgeek but I believe the PCM tracks on Sony's releases are all 16-bit/48kHz. But I've compared Black Hawk Down DVD with the BD and the BD wins hands down, even with the reduced sampling rate.

Recent Disney releases have begun using 20/24-bit 48kHz sampling rate for the main soundtrack. Using BD50, the releases got enough space to do so.


fuad

[theknub]

Originally Posted by SlyFly

your response indicates that film soundtracks have moved from AC3 5.1 to PCM 5.1 and thus raised the bar to hi-def audio for soundtracks.

Wrong. why ?

simple really. AC3 was an answer to a problem. AC3 is a lossy-format to handle 6 channels or more of sound. It was a retrograde from the cd-player high fidelity quality that has been in place since the 80's.

Since AC3 has only now been put on the back burner and now the actually quality of sound has moved back to it's original sound quality --- that of the cd-quality fidelity sound.

Hi-def audio Is "Studio-Quality". which is 20/24 bit audio boasting sampling frequencies at 96khz to 192khz and beyond which has been around since probably 1998.

Blu-ray is taking advantage of the current culture of mp3 "near-cd quality" to boast a hi-def format in cd-quality\dvd-a form.

did you make a point here?

end of story is that what we have now is better than anything we had before. was 20 bit and 86 hz around 20 years ago? im sure it was but we didn't hear it. all we have to go on right now is previous experience and right now it is the best.

[Deciazulado]

What SlyFly is trying to point out is that 16 bit-44.1/48 kHz audio is not High Definition audio. it's CD quality AUDIO, which is "standard def"

DTS and DolbyDigital compressed audio = .mp3 audio

High Definition Audio = 20/24 bit 96/192 kHz PCM, or 1 bit 2.8/5.6 Mhz DSD/SACD audio.

Since for example LPCM audio tracks are uncompressed, DVD videophiles used to compressed DolbyDigital 484 kb/s or DTS 0.768/1.5 Mbs think of PCM as "High Def", while audiophiles (who have had 16 bit 44.1 kHz LPCM since the '80s!) and Laserdisc videophiles (who have had 16 bit 44.056 kHz LPCM since the '90s!) do not.

[blitz6speed]

What i think our buddy SlyFly is failing to realize, is that a lot of the masters out there ARE regular 16/48 at the studio level. So claiming its not HD Audio means nothing, since nothing better exists. So for the sake of the movement of Blu-Ray, PCM will be considered HD Audio. All those in favor, Say I! *thousands of I's being heard*, sorry slyfly.

[Deciazulado]

In Kirk's ST V voice: Actuallyyy, FilmMixer at another video forums recently said something like 99% of audio masters are being done at 24bit or something similar if I'm not mistaken...

[degas]

^^ That sounds about right.
In the film (and music) industry, most changed from 16 to 24 bits about 7-8 years ago. Today, nobody uses 16 bits to begin with.

In music, that means the mixes are downconverted to 16 bits (from 24 bits) when put onto cd.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

In Kirk's ST V voice: Actuallyyy, FilmMixer at another video forums recently said something like 99% of audio masters are being done at 24bit or something similar if I'm not mistaken...

This sounds about right for current new releases.
Most work is done at 24/48.
Comparing sound from CD to movie sound though is flawed. In the studios work for music can be done at up to 32/384.
Lossy vs. lossless is the more important factor here.
What we have is lossless representations of the studio master.