Blu-ray vs AOD vs HD-DVD - Blu-ray Forum

Anonymous · 07-29-2003, 01:37 AM

which do you think will become the next standard?

I'm a Sony person so i think Blu-ray will prevail

Anonymous · 10-03-2003, 03:37 PM

The market will determine the success of blu ray. This will depend on when it will be available on a widespread basis at a reasonable cost. Further it must win out with flexability such as the ability to play current DVD disks, be priced below other competing products, and have widespread distribuiton like Best Buy, Circiuit City, Sams, etc. The first units will not be profitable to manufacturers so the committment to succss really depends on them and their alliance. Hard disk recording has a temporary advantage since they are realatively cheap and are the only practical way to meet HD requirements that a customer can afford. A more permanent way to record is needed but not yet economically affordable to the average HD owner who is pushed just to buy HD equipment. My opinion is price must be below $300 to really take off.

mmmhome · 10-08-2003, 12:27 PM

the future is devently blue.
But I think that Aod is better than the bluray format.
Because with an aodrecorder you can play DVD, too.
And this format is supported and will be supported by the DVD Forum.
What is if you have a blurayrecorder and nobody manufacted bluray movies?

Anonymous · 10-28-2003, 10:29 PM

DVD uses a red laser (less fine than Blu-ray or AOD) and is thus easily adaptable to both AOD and Blu-ray specifications. While I believe neither blue standards should require DVD compatability, the standard is too widespread for manufacturers to neglect to integrate DVD with their flagship-format products.

iceman · 11-02-2003, 08:27 PM

Blu-ray supports dvd as well.

mmmhome · 11-03-2003, 06:08 AM

@iceman

not all blu-ray players support dvd. Exactly said only 1 compnay has an player which support the dvd.
I don´t find the article at the moment.
It was an zdnet.co.jp article about he cretec

mmmhome · 11-03-2003, 06:20 AM

http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0310/08/nj00_blue.html

here is the article

use maybe altavista.com to translate it

iceman · 11-03-2003, 01:18 PM

I didn't read the article, but I have hard to imagine that they will launch a Blu-ray player without dvd support. The consumers wants dvd support and Blu-ray needs to have dvd support to success. I'm 100% confident that when they start selling a Blu-ray player aimed at the consumer market, it will support dvd.

Marwin · 11-03-2003, 04:49 PM

Thanks for the link to the article

I wouldn't worry about this at all. In the end, Blu-ray Disc recorders will need to be compatible with current DVD-players to become popular and have a chance to replace them, but that probably isn't the most important thing to Japanese consumers as they are looking for an alternative to record HDTV. Remember that these are just prototypes and what is most important for these first generation Blu-ray Disc recorders is the HD recording features. The only Blu-ray Disc recorder to be released yet is the Sony BDZ-S77 and it supports playback of DVD, DVD-R, DVD-RW, CD, CD-R, CD-RW, so it is definitely possible.

Blu-Wave · 05-09-2004, 08:42 PM

Note that DVD, AOD and HD-DVD are limited to two layers as a result of the way in which they are constructed. Blu-ray was designed from the start to support multi-layer and multi-level recording as the technology becomes available - so the current 50GB two-layer product is just the start.

Blu-ray is also based upon a similar data structure to DVD-RAM (and Minidisc), which augers well for its flexibility and potential user-friendliness in practice. As both Blu-ray and HD-DVD employ a 405nm blue-violet laser, they both need a second red laser to support CDs and DVDs - not surprisingly, even Sony's first Blu-ray recorder offers full backwards compatibility with CD and DVD (except for DVD+R/RW and DVD-RAM).

As Sony have recently released a DVD+-R/RW compatible DVD recorder, I'm sure that all the popular standards will be supported in second and third generation Blu-ray machines. :wink:

Marwin · 05-12-2004, 10:47 AM

Very interesting comment about the layer issue Blu-wave

I've heard about TDK successfully using quad-layer for 100GB in a research environment before, but didn't know that DVD/HD-DVD is limited to two layers.

Blu-Wave · 05-18-2004, 07:28 PM

The news of Sony's new three-wavelength optical head (see PS3 thread) is consistent with Sony making BD a fully backwards compatible, mass-market thing.

Talking of dual-layer DVD technology, they even have trouble producing that! Current "dual-layer" DVDs are actually two single-layer discs glued back to back, with a transparent bonding layer. This is why true dual-layer, double-sided DVD18 (17.08GB) discs are so thin on the ground - and they've been trying to produce them for over five years now, and how many have you seen?... :?

Unfortunately for HD-DVD, it uses the same structure as DVD, and so is likely to suffer from the same problems...

ops:

phloyd · 05-20-2004, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu-Wave

Current "dual-layer" DVDs are actually two single-layer discs glued back to back, with a transparent bonding layer. This is why true dual-layer, double-sided DVD18 (17.08GB) discs are so thin on the ground - and they've been trying to produce them for over five years now, and how many have you seen?... :?

Are you sure about your first statement? The original DVDs with fullscreen on one side and WS on the other were like that. For dual layer, if you did this you wouldn't be able to see through the first disc, so there must be something different about the make up of it.

I only have one or two DVD 18's

They are indeed thin on the ground. Most releases just go "2 disc" instead...

Cheers!
DAve.

Blu-Wave · 05-20-2004, 10:12 PM

Yes, I've seen a number of diagrams of the structure of "normal" dual-layer DVDs compared to true dual-layer DVDs (as used in DVD18s). All DVDs are essentially two 0.6mm DVDs glued back to back. In the case of a double-sided single-layer DVD, both surfaces are transparent but the bonding layer is opaque. A "normal" dual-layer DVD is identical in structure to this, except that the non-playing side is opaque, the "first" film is semi-transparent and the bonding layer is transparent (to let the optical head "see through to" the second layer). The gap between the two layers works out at approximately 55 microns. Note that this allows data recorded on both sides to be read from one side, and produces a capacity of 8.54GB (sound familiar?). :?

Double-sided discs (such as DVD14s and DVD18s) can't use this technique of course, and so have to include extra processing steps to stamp an extra data layer on each side - considerably more complicated. Based upon the relative lack of DVD14s and DVD18s even now (more than five years after they first appeared), it appears that they're still having trouble with true dual-layer technology - which is a shame, as HD-DVD needs both layers and both sides to get up to 60GB - and Blu-ray has already demonstrated 100GB with four layers (which could easily be pushed up to 200GB if they went double-sided).

Probably the clearest diagrams I've seen are at: http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/dvd/e/whats/index.htm

In Chapter 5.3 Dual-layer, single-sided disc and dual-layer, two-sided disc

...and it seems a bit strange calling a 17.08GB disc DVD18 anyhow...

For more details, see the What the Lack of DVD18s Means for HD-DVD posting at:

http://blu-raytalk.com/forums/viewfo...fd00bff938f3be

07-29-2003, 01:37 AM	#1
Anonymous Member Member since:May 2003	Blu-ray vs AOD vs HD-DVD which do you think will become the next standard? I'm a Sony person so i think Blu-ray will prevail

10-03-2003, 03:37 PM	#2
Anonymous Member Member since:May 2003	Blu Ray depends on Manufacturer's Committment The market will determine the success of blu ray. This will depend on when it will be available on a widespread basis at a reasonable cost. Further it must win out with flexability such as the ability to play current DVD disks, be priced below other competing products, and have widespread distribuiton like Best Buy, Circiuit City, Sams, etc. The first units will not be profitable to manufacturers so the committment to succss really depends on them and their alliance. Hard disk recording has a temporary advantage since they are realatively cheap and are the only practical way to meet HD requirements that a customer can afford. A more permanent way to record is needed but not yet economically affordable to the average HD owner who is pushed just to buy HD equipment. My opinion is price must be below $300 to really take off.

05-09-2004, 08:42 PM	#10
Blu-Wave Active Member Member since:Apr 2004	Multi-Layer, Multi-Level Blu-ray for 100GB and Beyond... Note that DVD, AOD and HD-DVD are limited to two layers as a result of the way in which they are constructed. Blu-ray was designed from the start to support multi-layer and multi-level recording as the technology becomes available - so the current 50GB two-layer product is just the start. Blu-ray is also based upon a similar data structure to DVD-RAM (and Minidisc), which augers well for its flexibility and potential user-friendliness in practice. As both Blu-ray and HD-DVD employ a 405nm blue-violet laser, they both need a second red laser to support CDs and DVDs - not surprisingly, even Sony's first Blu-ray recorder offers full backwards compatibility with CD and DVD (except for DVD+R/RW and DVD-RAM). As Sony have recently released a DVD+-R/RW compatible DVD recorder, I'm sure that all the popular standards will be supported in second and third generation Blu-ray machines. :wink:

05-18-2004, 07:28 PM	#12
Blu-Wave Active Member Member since:Apr 2004	Three Wavelengths and Two Layers... The news of Sony's new three-wavelength optical head (see PS3 thread) is consistent with Sony making BD a fully backwards compatible, mass-market thing. Talking of dual-layer DVD technology, they even have trouble producing that! Current "dual-layer" DVDs are actually two single-layer discs glued back to back, with a transparent bonding layer. This is why true dual-layer, double-sided DVD18 (17.08GB) discs are so thin on the ground - and they've been trying to produce them for over five years now, and how many have you seen?... :? Unfortunately for HD-DVD, it uses the same structure as DVD, and so is likely to suffer from the same problems... ops:

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
Netflix claims customers prefer HD-DVD over Blu-ray but I don't see a HD DVD section	General Chat	xwingsct	11	12-12-2007 06:58 PM
Disney Blu-ray Tour 'HD DVD is just a souped-up DVD player. Blu-ray is the real deal'	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	The Big Blue	32	10-30-2007 08:14 PM

10-08-2003, 12:27 PM	#3
mmmhome Active Member Member since:Oct 2003 Location:Germany	the future is devently blue. But I think that Aod is better than the bluray format. Because with an aodrecorder you can play DVD, too. And this format is supported and will be supported by the DVD Forum. What is if you have a blurayrecorder and nobody manufacted bluray movies?

10-28-2003, 10:29 PM	#4
Anonymous Member Member since:May 2003	DVD uses a red laser (less fine than Blu-ray or AOD) and is thus easily adaptable to both AOD and Blu-ray specifications. While I believe neither blue standards should require DVD compatability, the standard is too widespread for manufacturers to neglect to integrate DVD with their flagship-format products.

11-02-2003, 08:27 PM	#5
iceman Developer Top contributor Member since:May 2003 Home Theater Gallery:13 4K collection:27 Blu-ray collection:121 DVD collection:26 MA collection:1 Digital collection:6 iTunes collection:10 iTunes music:2 Prime collection:3 Trading Score:1	Blu-ray supports dvd as well.

11-03-2003, 06:08 AM	#6
mmmhome Active Member Member since:Oct 2003 Location:Germany	@iceman not all blu-ray players support dvd. Exactly said only 1 compnay has an player which support the dvd. I don´t find the article at the moment. It was an zdnet.co.jp article about he cretec

11-03-2003, 06:20 AM	#7
mmmhome Active Member Member since:Oct 2003 Location:Germany	http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0310/08/nj00_blue.html here is the article use maybe altavista.com to translate it

11-03-2003, 01:18 PM	#8
iceman Developer Top contributor Member since:May 2003 Home Theater Gallery:13 4K collection:27 Blu-ray collection:121 DVD collection:26 MA collection:1 Digital collection:6 iTunes collection:10 iTunes music:2 Prime collection:3 Trading Score:1	I didn't read the article, but I have hard to imagine that they will launch a Blu-ray player without dvd support. The consumers wants dvd support and Blu-ray needs to have dvd support to success. I'm 100% confident that when they start selling a Blu-ray player aimed at the consumer market, it will support dvd.

11-03-2003, 04:49 PM	#9
Marwin Developer Top contributor Member since:May 2003 Blu-ray collection:10 DVD collection:5 iTunes collection:1	Thanks for the link to the article I wouldn't worry about this at all. In the end, Blu-ray Disc recorders will need to be compatible with current DVD-players to become popular and have a chance to replace them, but that probably isn't the most important thing to Japanese consumers as they are looking for an alternative to record HDTV. Remember that these are just prototypes and what is most important for these first generation Blu-ray Disc recorders is the HD recording features. The only Blu-ray Disc recorder to be released yet is the Sony BDZ-S77 and it supports playback of DVD, DVD-R, DVD-RW, CD, CD-R, CD-RW, so it is definitely possible.

05-12-2004, 10:47 AM	#11
Marwin Developer Top contributor Member since:May 2003 Blu-ray collection:10 DVD collection:5 iTunes collection:1	Very interesting comment about the layer issue Blu-wave I've heard about TDK successfully using quad-layer for 100GB in a research environment before, but didn't know that DVD/HD-DVD is limited to two layers.

05-20-2004, 10:12 PM	#14
Blu-Wave Active Member Member since:Apr 2004	Yes, I've seen a number of diagrams of the structure of "normal" dual-layer DVDs compared to true dual-layer DVDs (as used in DVD18s). All DVDs are essentially two 0.6mm DVDs glued back to back. In the case of a double-sided single-layer DVD, both surfaces are transparent but the bonding layer is opaque. A "normal" dual-layer DVD is identical in structure to this, except that the non-playing side is opaque, the "first" film is semi-transparent and the bonding layer is transparent (to let the optical head "see through to" the second layer). The gap between the two layers works out at approximately 55 microns. Note that this allows data recorded on both sides to be read from one side, and produces a capacity of 8.54GB (sound familiar?). :? Double-sided discs (such as DVD14s and DVD18s) can't use this technique of course, and so have to include extra processing steps to stamp an extra data layer on each side - considerably more complicated. Based upon the relative lack of DVD14s and DVD18s even now (more than five years after they first appeared), it appears that they're still having trouble with true dual-layer technology - which is a shame, as HD-DVD needs both layers and both sides to get up to 60GB - and Blu-ray has already demonstrated 100GB with four layers (which could easily be pushed up to 200GB if they went double-sided). Probably the clearest diagrams I've seen are at: http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/dvd/e/whats/index.htm In Chapter 5.3 Dual-layer, single-sided disc and dual-layer, two-sided disc ...and it seems a bit strange calling a 17.08GB disc DVD18 anyhow... For more details, see the What the Lack of DVD18s Means for HD-DVD posting at: http://blu-raytalk.com/forums/viewfo...fd00bff938f3be

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals