Standard DVD format on Blu-ray?

[Darktrader]

Hello Everyone,

I am brand spanking new to this forum, so i dont know if this is the right place for this thread or not. I have been a blu ray fan since he first day PS3 came out!

My question is...my friends had a 360 HD DVD player and some of his discs has both the HD format and the standard format on the same disc. I was blown away that is had both. This issue I have is, I have a home theater in the basement where the PS3 is for Bluerays, But I have 2 other plasmas and our computers that all have standard DVD players. When My wife wants to watch a DVD she curses it is a bluray because she can only watch it on 1 player? Does certain bluray discs had both formats? If not how come HD DVD could do this and why doesnt Bluray do this?

Jonathan

[arush5268d]

There are no Blu-ray combo disks that I'm aware of.


To me the combo HD-DVD was like a couple of years ago going to the movie store to buy a DVD and it also came with a VHS copy. In principle it's the same thing that you are asking about.


Also, Toshiba gets royalties on DVD - and hates Blu-ray since we caused their format (HD-DVD) to lose the format war. There's no way that Toshiba would allow for Blu-ray / DVD combo disks.

Personally there's no way that I'd want DVD on the flip side of a Blu-ray. It's old technology - and will only add confusion to the general public.

[Darktrader]

I understand your thoughts on this it does make sense, its just too bad we can only use it on one player. And we are SOL using Blueray on our computers, I hope Mac soon will add a bluray player.

[arush5268d]

It's a shame for many thousands of Blu-ray fans that Apple is dragging their feet on this.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by arush5268d

It's a shame for many thousands of Blu-ray fans that Apple is dragging their feet on this.

While Mac is dragging its feet - I've been watching BD's on my pc with a 106 inch screen or a 42 inch monitor (depending on how good the film is). Blu-ray is already in PC - Its available and runs well on properly equiped PCs.

[arush5268d]

Originally Posted by prerich

While Mac is dragging its feet - I've been watching BD's on my pc with a 106 inch screen or a 42 inch monitor (depending on how good the film is). Blu-ray is already in PC - Its available and runs well on properly equiped PCs.

Very true. I'm typing this right now on a Sony Blu-ray equiped laptop.

I can understand how Mac owners would be very frustrated though.

I am looking forward to Windows natively supporting Blu-ray with the next big update.

[plowmanjoe]

wow. i've never heard of the dual format hd-dvd before. i think it's brilliant. when i got sex and the city for my girlfriend, she didn't want the blu-ray version even though that's the one i wanted to buy. but with a standard dvd she could watch it wherever she wanted since dvd players are everywhere. she could bring it to someone else's house to watch it or loan it out to her sister for instance.

though i don't think it'll happen, i think it would be a great thing for blu-ray and would be more of an incentive to buy it. it just more versatile that way.

[arush5268d]

I don't see the dual format combo-disks happening with Blu-ray because of Toshiba and how anti- Blu-ray they are.

[plowmanjoe]

which is too bad. i think it would only be a good thing.

[arush5268d]

Oh I agree - for many people that would be a great feature.

[krazeyeyez]

also an issue in my household, but as im the one buying these things its gonna be blu if blu is available. i seem to move my player around often, which is not a problem for me but for others this probably isn't an option.

[arush5268d]

As player prices continue to fall it'll be easier / cheaper for people to replace outdated DVD players with Blu-ray players.

Thus eliminating the need for combo disks!

[Chevypower]

Originally Posted by arush5268d

Very true. I'm typing this right now on a Sony Blu-ray equiped laptop.

I can understand how Mac owners would be very frustrated though.

I am looking forward to Windows natively supporting Blu-ray with the next big update.

Ehh it doesnt bother me, I just export an HD quicktime movie in Final Cut Pro, and can import it (the file) in to Sony DVD Architect 5 on a PC and make a Blu Ray. What PC owners don't realize, is how nicely DVD Studio Pro (Apple) works, and how smooth it is. It authors a nice DVD faster than any other program I have tried, and so easy to use. I wouldn't want Apple to release it before they know all the bugs had been fixed first, and it integrated well with the rest of the platform. They could pull a Microsoft and release it before it was actually working properly, but there is a reason we love our Macs :-)

[bageleaterkkjji]

Originally Posted by Darktrader

Hello Everyone,

I am brand spanking new to this forum, so i dont know if this is the right place for this thread or not. I have been a blu ray fan since he first day PS3 came out!

My question is...my friends had a 360 HD DVD player and some of his discs has both the HD format and the standard format on the same disc. I was blown away that is had both. This issue I have is, I have a home theater in the basement where the PS3 is for Bluerays, But I have 2 other plasmas and our computers that all have standard DVD players. When My wife wants to watch a DVD she curses it is a bluray because she can only watch it on 1 player? Does certain bluray discs had both formats? If not how come HD DVD could do this and why doesnt Bluray do this?

Jonathan

combo discs are total pieces of crap thats why they dont exist anymore id rather not have a dvd glued to the other side of my blu ray
thats why they got digital copies on some movies now

[bmr76]

Originally Posted by arush5268d

As player prices continue to fall it'll be easier / cheaper for people to replace outdated DVD players with Blu-ray players.

Thus eliminating the need for combo disks!

i work in retail and sonys 350 bluray player will be 199 through out the holiday shopping season. mass adoption is on its way

[Petra_Kalbrain]

When it comes down to the idea of a combo disc you have two choices: convenience or quality. Convenience, you can take it anywhere but the Blu-ray version is less than perfect. Quality, you have to play it on a Blu-ray player but you are most likely guaranteed a far superior picture and lossless audio.

If the Blu-ray/DVD combo ever happened, say goodbye to the perks of the high quality transfers. Essentially what would happen to the disk is that they would have to sacrifice half of the storage space on the disc to the DVD format. Thus, they would have to use more compressed audio and video files in order to get the Blu-ray version onto the other half.

[david2189]

dont forget it also nearly doubled the price of hd dvds when they were combos, you were better off buying two seperate copies!!

if i had to pay any more for blu rays (which i would have to if they did combos like hd dvd) i wouldnt buy them anymore as i cant afford it

[dadkins]

Originally Posted by arush5268d

Very true. I'm typing this right now on a Sony Blu-ray equiped laptop.

I can understand how Mac owners would be very frustrated though.

I am looking forward to Windows natively supporting Blu-ray with the next big update.

Oh yeah!
Typing this on BD laptop #2.

[Anthony P]

combos where and are extremely expensive to produce, it would be cheaper for a studio to add a DVD copy (or a digital copy as they have done) on a regular DVD then a combo. Toshiba was pushing and subsidizing the combos on HD DVD because it needed a talking point, but look back and you would see most HD DVD owners where not happy because they needed to pay more for the movies and let's face it, why watch it on an other TV in SD when you can watch it on your HDTV in HD. Before BD launched JVC was working on a combo, after BD launched and during the format war WB was working on a combo, in the end none of them went for it because it did not make financial sense.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

If the Blu-ray/DVD combo ever happened, say goodbye to the perks of the high quality transfers. Essentially what would happen to the disk is that they would have to sacrifice half of the storage space on the disc to the DVD format. Thus, they would have to use more compressed audio and video files in order to get the Blu-ray version onto the other half.

Not true. Imagine a disc divided evenly to three layers. The top most layer is the CD layer; this is why a CD with a scratched top/label layer hiccups as the reflective layer is dented.


The middle layer is the DVD layer, which is also used for SACDs AND HD DVDs. Combined with the violet OPU, HD DVDs use this to increase its storage size. What happened with the Combo format on HD DVD is one of the following:

1) 1 single-layer for DVD and another for HD DVD. This can be the infamous flipper where you have to flip which side you want to play, or it can be a non-flipper essentially a DVD9.
2) 1 single-layer DVD and 1 dual-layer HD DVD. This is a flipper disc and is essentially a DVD14.
3) 2 dual-layers for DVD and HD DVDs. This is also a flipper disc and essentially a DVD18.

The first two was known to be used. The last one, I'm not sure if Toshiba did ever make it to work on a title. Maybe a few.

Coming back to the layered disc, the bottom most layer is for Blu-ray Disc. Combined with the violet laser and a thin cover layer, it gave BD an increased capacity. It also required BD to have a hard coating to protect the data layer as it is closer to the surface.

So theoretically, a combo BD+DVD disc can be made with no problem. It can even be a BD50+DVD9 disc all on a single SIDE, which means labels can be printed. It was demoed sometime in 2006 by JVC to smack back the DVD Forum but it never went into actual production. With the demise of HD DVD, there is no reason now to revive it. If it went to production, the cost would also be prohibitive to the studios with no obvious benefit to the studio or the consumer.

Now that you understand the physical layers of discs, here's another combo that theoretically can be done but may never get to see the light of day - BD+CD. Each of them reside in completely separate layers so a BD/CD combo can theoretically be done as a CD single with HD music video, or an album with Redbook audio and 24-bit/120kHz multichannel audio AND HD music video. This combo also can be on a single SIDE.


fuad