Bass Management

[brick head]

Hello,
This is my first post here. I'm in the process of making a decision to buy my first blu-ray player. I've considered the Panny BD55, Sony S550, Sammy 2500 and the Pioneer 51FD. I'll be using the analog outs for 7.1 into an HK 7200. The 7200 has an excellent bass management section. I have eliminated the Pioneer after being told I am forced to use a high bass xover of 100. I was also told that the Sony is probably the best bet in that case. My question: Do I have to use the bass management section of the player and not my processor? Being new to BR players, that was a bit of a surprise since none of my previous DVD players required that. It also makes spending a lot of money on a new processor seem wasteful. Speaking of a new processor: that would have HDMI obviously. If that were the case, would I still be locked into the blu-ray player's bass management?

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by brick head

Hello,
This is my first post here. I'm in the process of making a decision to buy my first blu-ray player. I've considered the Panny BD55, Sony S550, Sammy 2500 and the Pioneer 51FD. I'll be using the analog outs for 7.1 into an HK 7200. The 7200 has an excellent bass management section. I have eliminated the Pioneer after being told I am forced to use a high bass xover of 100. I was also told that the Sony is probably the best bet in that case. My question: Do I have to use the bass management section of the player and not my processor? Being new to BR players, that was a bit of a surprise since none of my previous DVD players required that. It also makes spending a lot of money on a new processor seem wasteful. Am I missing something?

The Pioneer is not unique about requiring bass management in the player. Unless your HK can redigitize the analog inputs, you will have to do bass management and all other forms of digital processing in each of those players instead of your receiver.

That was not an issue with DVD because optical supports DD 5.1 and DTS bitstreams, allowing your receiver to handle the processing. But, optical can't be used for lossless. So, you have to do the decoding and digital processing in the player, prior to the digital-analog conversion. If your receiver has HDMI, then you are back in the digital transmission business and you can do the processing in your AVR.

The Panasonic, Pioneer, and Samsung players all have fixed 100Hz crossovers. Sony hasn't divulged its crossover, but tests by users suggest it is probably 120Hz. Samsung doesn't have output level controls or distance/time settings. Pioneer also doesn't allow for distance controls. The Panasonic probably has the best processing toolset of the group you mentioned, although the Pioneer gets high marks for its DACs. But none of these players can match the digital processing found in most good receivers.

One more note: Your AVR probably can't apply PLIIx to the analog inputs. Most lossless tracks are 5.1. So, with analog, you won't be able to matrix sound for your rear speakers.

[brick head]

BIslander,
Thanks for the reply. I thought I had this all worked out and then I ran across that little bass management tidbit. I recently bought a new processor to replace my HK but I returned it since it didn't really do anything the HK wasn't doing. It had DVI but not HDMI. I may be in the market for another one now.

[Tarheel72]

Most everything BIslander said is accurate. With any of these you will be doing basic bass management in the player if you use analog inputs. I have the HK635 and the Sony 550, which allows me to set distance, size and speaker level for each channel (I use the 5.1 mode, not 7.1) The HK allows me to set speaker levels on the analog input, so I can boost the Sub the necessary amount to adjust for loss of bass, which is always going to be required when you use the analog inputs regardless of the player you use.

Some of your issues will be fixed by setting the speakers to their proper size in the player, either large or small. that will have an overall affect on the sound stage and the discribution of the sub bass frequencies.

As a point of reference, I set the distance with the player menu, set the size according to my speaker manufacturer (Def Tech) and left the levels at all zero in the player. I boosted the sub level in the receiver by 12db and set the other speaker levels to the same settings that my EZSetUp had calculated for other material (I don't think the 7200 has EZSetUp but I assume you have done some audio balancing of the system). My settings seem to work fine. I did boost my center channel a little after watching several movies but that was more personal taste then scientific application.

Buy the one you like from a local dealer who will take returns if you are unsure. I would go with the Sony or the Panasonic first, then the Pioneer. I would avoid the Samsung at all cost, due to multiple issues with build quality and support, not the overall audio or video capabilities of the player.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by brick head

BIslander,
Thanks for the reply. I thought I had this all worked out and then I ran across that little bass management tidbit. I recently bought a new processor to replace my HK but I returned it since it didn't really do anything the HK wasn't doing. It had DVI but not HDMI. I may be in the market for another one now.

brick head - I took a peek at the HK 7200 manual and I believe it says you can digitize the analog inputs and use the receiver's bass management. Take a look at p28 of the manual. It says the 6 CH and 8 CH DVD AUDIO settings convert the analog source to digital so that the HK's bass management can be used. It looks like you don't need a new receiver. Just set speakers to large, distances to equal, and the output levels at 0db.

[musicman1999]

I have the Pioneer and the crossover is set at 120. Using bass management on an analog connection is not the answer, as it puts the signal through an analog-digital-analog conversion and this will adversly affect the sound, my anthem processor does it, and better than most but it still affects the sound. For lossless audio over analogs the bass management needs to be done in player or an outboard analog device.

bill

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by musicman1999

I have the Pioneer and the crossover is set at 120.

Thanks for the correction.

Using bass management on an analog connection is not the answer, as it puts the signal through an analog-digital-analog conversion and this will adversly affect the sound, my anthem processor does it, and better than most but it still affects the sound. For lossless audio over analogs the bass management needs to be done in player or an outboard analog device.

I can't speak from personal experience on the effects of the double conversion. But, from what I have read, there's certainly no consensus that the adverse impact is greater than the benefits to be gained from better bass management and EQ for room correction. In fact, the prevailing opinion appears to be to the contrary - that the benefits of improved processing in many receivers outweighs the adverse effects of the extra AD/DA conversions.