1.8 has big implications in the "wars" - Blu-ray Forum

ps3andlovinit · 05-26-2007, 05:53 PM

Been thinking a bit about what the 1.8 update means in regards to both 360 and HD-DVD wars. This update may have the biggest most lasting impact on everyone involved in the next gen "wars"..some of it's obvious but wanted to get it written down somewhere anyway. Long ... but here is why I think it's a game changer both above and below the surface...

360

One of the points being used against the PS3 is the game quantity (not quality) vs the 360. With this update they have struck a major blow against the 360...

Upscaling Ramifications

1. The PS2 libary is massive and still has more new games being released than any of the next gen consoles.
i) All of a sudden upgrading sooner to the PS3 just became *significantly* more attractive to existing PS2 users due to upscaling. GOWII upscaled - hell yes. Only on PS3.

ii) PS2 users upgrading to next gen have even less reasons to consider the 360. None really. It has seriously neutralized the only advantage/draw the 360 had over even the PS2 (that's TWO) never mind the PS3. Next gen graphics. The chances of those people now upgrading to the 360 and not the PS3 has gone to about < .1%. And that's before considering the DVD upscaling as well.
New console users deciding are in a slightly different but a remarkably similar place to existing PS2 users. The libary size advantage of the 360 over the PS3 has been seriously damaged with this update.

iii) Now that the graphics advantage/draw is gone the 360 looks even more like a xbox 1.5 with it's DVD technology. Less than 1.5 really to consumers. $500 bucks for what? Only PS3 is really next gen now - plus adding value for exisiting product library.

iv) 360 games are short in comparison to other consoles because they went with DVD for hi-def content. Therefore PS2 games are much better value since they will have now have "good enough" graphics to match the 360 plus much longer gameplay and....360 really hobbled themselves with DVD.

v) PS2 games are cheaper than next gen games as well..and

vi) Yes even the Wii, 360 and PS3 will be effected by point v)...but it's a transition to the PS3 - not the others. Over the medium to long run they lose..would even expect a spike in PS2 software sales as a harbringer of things to come.

viii) It's a wierd psychological barrier - but there are PS2 games I would now go and buy that I wouldn't have previously. Why? Because they now qualify as being next gen enough. IOW they now meet my expectation of what's "allowed" on the next gen PS3 - I don't think I will be alone in thinking that way. The BC was important in our initial decision but the upscaling brings a huge library forward now.

Upscaling Ramifications for developers
Given all the above - If your a developer the Playstation brand and the future PS3 market just took a *huge* boost over this..and your risk just went down significantly in developing for it now and in the future. That will take developer resources away from the other consoles as well.

Any uncertainty about what PS2 users will eventually do has pretty well been put in a coffin and nailed shut. That's another 120 million console market in the making. It's simply too dangerous to ignore after this update. It's pretty well guaranteed to be in that range over the long haul..keep your less capable developers churning out PS2 cames for PS2 AND PS3 consoles - and accelerate your brightest ones to PS3 development - to stake out your claim and reap the benefits or early knowledge. This ludicrous idea of developers giving up an existing 120 million console market in the PS2 for a 6-7 million Wii market is just that - ludicrous. Especially given the PS3 at double the price cuts that Wii market in half again anyways..

It's not just BC anymore - now consumers are also going to get a major graphics boost with their PS2 games - even future games. That is damn sexy for a consumer`instead of being just a utility like BC was. That's a big hook for consumers and devs alike while they transistion to the next gen.

HD-DVD/DVD

One of the points being used against the PS3 was the "I can't upscale my *huge* DVD collection". And it was always huge

. With this update they have struck a major blow against both the 360 and the HD-DVD camp last remaining leg to stand on. Not really much more to say on this other than ...

1. The PS3 does it for BOTH movies AND GAMES (PS1/PS2)
2. It's in software for future upgrades - who knows whats down the road.
3. The audio flexibility over the 360 add-on is clearly superior. Again next gen vs last gen.
4. The "equivalent" PS3 is cheaper than the 360 plus add-on for more capability - all in one sleek box.
5. Also related: 24Hz support, Full RGB, etc. Any videophile claiming it's not a big deal for *those interested* in it is a shill/troll for the HD-DVD add-on camp and anybody that would matter/interested in this feature immediately knows they are. Use it to out them on AVMS.

Multimedia Server/Streaming

Again one of the points being used against the PS3 was the "I can't access my *huge* PC media collection". And it was always huge

. With this update they have struck a major blow against both the 360 (and the Wii to a certain degree). Not really much more to say on this..except the 360 has no bullets left in the chamber.

Global Remote play over the PSP

Competition has nothing like it. Not even close or on the horizon. Now people can access all that *huge* quantity of media they were previously talking/crowing the PS3 couldn't and one ups it to being mobile. That's way more than the competition can claim. Where are the PS3 haters now? Sony just expanded it way Beyond something as limiting as console to PC in the same room of a house that the competition is stuck with.

And not just media stored on the PS3 but also on those PC media servers connected to it as well.

At half the price of an iPod and access to all your media at home, games (including multiplayer), browsing/feeds - I will have very little use for my iPod anymore. Need a shuffle for going to the gym but that was the case with an iPod as well.

This was a major friggin update...and it was only point release

. Caught all of us off guard didn't it...including the competition? You think? Maybe that 2.0 leak was intentional to throw them off? Maybe marking it as point release was intentional? Maybe Sony isn't as stupid/lost as some so called "experts" want people to believe. Maybe they have a plan...

And I wonder what they mean about full body gameplay when talking about the new Eye camera...nah..crazy.. just like they didn't/couldn't ever upscale because the hardware wasn't capable. Dummies. Remember that one?

Couldn't/wouldn't act as a real media server because they would have to play nice with PC's and that evil "proprietary" Sony would never do that..only MS would give you that choice - remember that one as well?

dialog_gvf · 05-26-2007, 06:07 PM

Great post. Also consider the general ramifications.

Microsoft has been delaying just getting the HD DVD audio working properly on the XBox 360 (the latest excuse being the "cost" of a release). Yet, here comes Sony with the MOAR (the mother of all releases

).

"I wonder if X could be done on the PS/3" has to be assumed by people more and more to be "yes", with time. Sony is delivering.

e.g. The FUD: "Maybe PiP won't be possible on the PS/3". Yeah, right.

And by contrast Microsoft has a new hardware release (Elite) and still can't supply HD audio.

PS/3: It's premium priced for a REASON. Didn't your parents teach you that you get what you pay for?

Gary

Scorxpion · 05-26-2007, 06:18 PM

Great Post ,,,,Very good conclusion of 1.8

MSG2007 · 05-26-2007, 07:31 PM

I have both systems and since I got my PS3, I don't even consider the 360 anymore. It is just collecting dust.

Kinmui · 05-26-2007, 08:06 PM

Great post! PS3 is the only entertainment hub I need in my home theatre, and it is great. I agree it will come out on top in a few years when its games library builds up, because it is without a doubt the best machine of the 3.

XBOX 360, to put bluntly, is an half-ass next generation console, and it works more like a PC than a game console. MS just doesn't get it, I switched from being PC to PS for gaming, because I am sick and tired of all the freaking updates and new components I have to buy every year for my PC, and there are always games which won't be compatible with my current config, or my PC is never fast enough to play the latest and greatest. I don't have any of those woes with playstation, and thank god I never will.

Wii is a different animal altogether. I don't even consider it a next generation console, it's more like a toy you put in the family room for everyone to enjoy. I praise them for the innovation though.

And DVD upscaling is great, I used Spider-Man 2 (Superbit DVD) for comparisons, and the details are much sharper and brighter comparing to my existing high-end Sony DVD player (connected to my HDTV via Monster THX Ultra component cables)...

I nearly want to upgrade my HDTV (max 1080i) to FullHD just for my PS3...

Rustmonsteru · 05-26-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSG2007

I have both systems and since I got my PS3, I don't even consider the 360 anymore. It is just collecting dust.

Ditto! My 360 is fodder for the dust mites

. My only isssue with the PS3 is I wish that when I hit stop during a movie I would'nt have to start the movie over again; most dvd players pick up where you left off if you hit stop even after you turn it off (thanks Denon). Granted, I understand why they default to the PS3 menu, but it would be nice if they found a way around that. Big praise for the 1.8 update nonetheless.

jorg · 05-26-2007, 11:16 PM

wow great post agein sonhy should start putting somthing on there boxes that says the upscalling

Stef Nighthawk · 05-27-2007, 05:46 PM

They should already put "PS3 compatible (FW 1.x)" stickers on the PS2 gameboxes.

whippersnapper · 05-27-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stef Nighthawk

They should already put "PS3 compatible (FW 1.x)" stickers on the PS2 gameboxes.

Lots of good suggestions here for the manufacturers/distributors. Loving my PS3 more and more!!

haichuu · 05-27-2007, 06:35 PM

Sony and everyone else needs to get the word out that the PS3 is BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE I work in a game retail store and it is so amazing how uninformed the consumer is even the ones that are pro Playstation brand don't even know 1/2 of the features that the PS3 offers some of the common things I hear are "Well I don't have a Blu Ray TV so I wouldn't even be able to use 1" or "Well the Blu Ray doesn't matter on the PS3 cuz I can pick up a 360 elite and have Blu Ray on that for cheaper" or "Why would I get that I can't even play DVD's in it" or "Well the 360 is BC while the PS3 sucks and won't play their old games" I mean really ridiculous statements like this are all too common and if it's happening at my store then it's happening all over... ppl really need to inform ppl about PS3 and dispel some of the more ridiculous rumors surrounding it... (also ppl need to take their PS3 online if nothing other to get these version updates, since the time 1.8 has come out I have asked every customer who even looks at my PS3 section if they had a PS3 and if they have taken it online to get the new update and I was 0/8... well 1/9 if you include me)

stockstar1138 · 05-27-2007, 06:44 PM

i hear you. i always hear people complain (especially on fb), about stuff. they say sony should fix this, and im just like THEY HAVE DO THE DAMN UPDATES! oh and the one i hate the most is, "The online sucks," have they ever been in an online 40 man deathmatch on resistance, with absoultely no lag. NOPE. but 8 player laggy GeoW is just phenonminal.

Basically, it comes down to the fact the deep down the kids want a ps3, but simply can't afford it so they make up FUD on why they wouldn't want one.

Nismobeach · 05-28-2007, 02:29 AM

There are a lot of good points here. IMO, I think Sony needs to do a better job of marketing all of the features of the PS3 to the public better.

My best friend just expressed interest in purchasing one, and like others he was unaware that the PS3 was backwards compatible with PS2 games (among other things). He also seems to think that like previous gen consoles the PS3 will get old after messing around with it for an hour.

05-26-2007, 05:53 PM	#1
ps3andlovinit Blu-ray Guru Member since:Feb 2007	1.8 has big implications in the "wars" Been thinking a bit about what the 1.8 update means in regards to both 360 and HD-DVD wars. This update may have the biggest most lasting impact on everyone involved in the next gen "wars"..some of it's obvious but wanted to get it written down somewhere anyway. Long ... but here is why I think it's a game changer both above and below the surface... 360 One of the points being used against the PS3 is the game quantity (not quality) vs the 360. With this update they have struck a major blow against the 360... Upscaling Ramifications 1. The PS2 libary is massive and still has more new games being released than any of the next gen consoles. i) All of a sudden upgrading sooner to the PS3 just became significantly more attractive to existing PS2 users due to upscaling. GOWII upscaled - hell yes. Only on PS3. ii) PS2 users upgrading to next gen have even less reasons to consider the 360. None really. It has seriously neutralized the only advantage/draw the 360 had over even the PS2 (that's TWO) never mind the PS3. Next gen graphics. The chances of those people now upgrading to the 360 and not the PS3 has gone to about < .1%. And that's before considering the DVD upscaling as well. New console users deciding are in a slightly different but a remarkably similar place to existing PS2 users. The libary size advantage of the 360 over the PS3 has been seriously damaged with this update. iii) Now that the graphics advantage/draw is gone the 360 looks even more like a xbox 1.5 with it's DVD technology. Less than 1.5 really to consumers. $500 bucks for what? Only PS3 is really next gen now - plus adding value for exisiting product library. iv) 360 games are short in comparison to other consoles because they went with DVD for hi-def content. Therefore PS2 games are much better value since they will have now have "good enough" graphics to match the 360 plus much longer gameplay and....360 really hobbled themselves with DVD. v) PS2 games are cheaper than next gen games as well..and vi) Yes even the Wii, 360 and PS3 will be effected by point v)...but it's a transition to the PS3 - not the others. Over the medium to long run they lose..would even expect a spike in PS2 software sales as a harbringer of things to come. viii) It's a wierd psychological barrier - but there are PS2 games I would now go and buy that I wouldn't have previously. Why? Because they now qualify as being next gen enough. IOW they now meet my expectation of what's "allowed" on the next gen PS3 - I don't think I will be alone in thinking that way. The BC was important in our initial decision but the upscaling brings a huge library forward now. Upscaling Ramifications for developers Given all the above - If your a developer the Playstation brand and the future PS3 market just took a huge boost over this..and your risk just went down significantly in developing for it now and in the future. That will take developer resources away from the other consoles as well. Any uncertainty about what PS2 users will eventually do has pretty well been put in a coffin and nailed shut. That's another 120 million console market in the making. It's simply too dangerous to ignore after this update. It's pretty well guaranteed to be in that range over the long haul..keep your less capable developers churning out PS2 cames for PS2 AND PS3 consoles - and accelerate your brightest ones to PS3 development - to stake out your claim and reap the benefits or early knowledge. This ludicrous idea of developers giving up an existing 120 million console market in the PS2 for a 6-7 million Wii market is just that - ludicrous. Especially given the PS3 at double the price cuts that Wii market in half again anyways.. It's not just BC anymore - now consumers are also going to get a major graphics boost with their PS2 games - even future games. That is damn sexy for a consumer`instead of being just a utility like BC was. That's a big hook for consumers and devs alike while they transistion to the next gen. HD-DVD/DVD One of the points being used against the PS3 was the "I can't upscale my huge DVD collection". And it was always huge . With this update they have struck a major blow against both the 360 and the HD-DVD camp last remaining leg to stand on. Not really much more to say on this other than ... 1. The PS3 does it for BOTH movies AND GAMES (PS1/PS2) 2. It's in software for future upgrades - who knows whats down the road. 3. The audio flexibility over the 360 add-on is clearly superior. Again next gen vs last gen. 4. The "equivalent" PS3 is cheaper than the 360 plus add-on for more capability - all in one sleek box. 5. Also related: 24Hz support, Full RGB, etc. Any videophile claiming it's not a big deal for those interested in it is a shill/troll for the HD-DVD add-on camp and anybody that would matter/interested in this feature immediately knows they are. Use it to out them on AVMS. Multimedia Server/Streaming Again one of the points being used against the PS3 was the "I can't access my huge PC media collection". And it was always huge . With this update they have struck a major blow against both the 360 (and the Wii to a certain degree). Not really much more to say on this..except the 360 has no bullets left in the chamber. Global Remote play over the PSP Competition has nothing like it. Not even close or on the horizon. Now people can access all that huge quantity of media they were previously talking/crowing the PS3 couldn't and one ups it to being mobile. That's way more than the competition can claim. Where are the PS3 haters now? Sony just expanded it way Beyond something as limiting as console to PC in the same room of a house that the competition is stuck with. And not just media stored on the PS3 but also on those PC media servers connected to it as well. At half the price of an iPod and access to all your media at home, games (including multiplayer), browsing/feeds - I will have very little use for my iPod anymore. Need a shuffle for going to the gym but that was the case with an iPod as well. This was a major friggin update...and it was only point release . Caught all of us off guard didn't it...including the competition? You think? Maybe that 2.0 leak was intentional to throw them off? Maybe marking it as point release was intentional? Maybe Sony isn't as stupid/lost as some so called "experts" want people to believe. Maybe they have a plan... And I wonder what they mean about full body gameplay when talking about the new Eye camera...nah..crazy.. just like they didn't/couldn't ever upscale because the hardware wasn't capable. Dummies. Remember that one? Couldn't/wouldn't act as a real media server because they would have to play nice with PC's and that evil "proprietary" Sony would never do that..only MS would give you that choice - remember that one as well?

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05-26-2007, 06:07 PM	#2
dialog_gvf Moderator Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Toronto Blu-ray collection:320	Great post. Also consider the general ramifications. Microsoft has been delaying just getting the HD DVD audio working properly on the XBox 360 (the latest excuse being the "cost" of a release). Yet, here comes Sony with the MOAR (the mother of all releases ). "I wonder if X could be done on the PS/3" has to be assumed by people more and more to be "yes", with time. Sony is delivering. e.g. The FUD: "Maybe PiP won't be possible on the PS/3". Yeah, right. And by contrast Microsoft has a new hardware release (Elite) and still can't supply HD audio. PS/3: It's premium priced for a REASON. Didn't your parents teach you that you get what you pay for? Gary

05-26-2007, 06:18 PM	#3
Scorxpion Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Middle East,Lebanon Blu-ray collection:57	Great Post ,,,,Very good conclusion of 1.8

05-26-2007, 07:31 PM	#4
MSG2007 Junior Member Member since:Mar 2007	I have both systems and since I got my PS3, I don't even consider the 360 anymore. It is just collecting dust.

05-26-2007, 08:06 PM	#5
Kinmui Junior Member Member since:Apr 2007 Location:Edmonton, Canada	Great post! PS3 is the only entertainment hub I need in my home theatre, and it is great. I agree it will come out on top in a few years when its games library builds up, because it is without a doubt the best machine of the 3. XBOX 360, to put bluntly, is an half-ass next generation console, and it works more like a PC than a game console. MS just doesn't get it, I switched from being PC to PS for gaming, because I am sick and tired of all the freaking updates and new components I have to buy every year for my PC, and there are always games which won't be compatible with my current config, or my PC is never fast enough to play the latest and greatest. I don't have any of those woes with playstation, and thank god I never will. Wii is a different animal altogether. I don't even consider it a next generation console, it's more like a toy you put in the family room for everyone to enjoy. I praise them for the innovation though. And DVD upscaling is great, I used Spider-Man 2 (Superbit DVD) for comparisons, and the details are much sharper and brighter comparing to my existing high-end Sony DVD player (connected to my HDTV via Monster THX Ultra component cables)... I nearly want to upgrade my HDTV (max 1080i) to FullHD just for my PS3...

05-26-2007, 11:16 PM	#7
jorg Power Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:2	wow great post agein sonhy should start putting somthing on there boxes that says the upscalling

05-27-2007, 05:46 PM	#8
Stef Nighthawk Member Member since:Mar 2006	They should already put "PS3 compatible (FW 1.x)" stickers on the PS2 gameboxes.

05-27-2007, 06:35 PM	#10
haichuu Member Member since:Apr 2007	Sony and everyone else needs to get the word out that the PS3 *is BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE* I work in a game retail store and it is so amazing how uninformed the consumer is even the ones that are pro Playstation brand don't even know 1/2 of the features that the PS3 offers some of the common things I hear are "Well I don't have a Blu Ray TV so I wouldn't even be able to use 1" or "Well the Blu Ray doesn't matter on the PS3 cuz I can pick up a 360 elite and have Blu Ray on that for cheaper" or "Why would I get that I can't even play DVD's in it" or "Well the 360 is BC while the PS3 sucks and won't play their old games" I mean really ridiculous statements like this are all too common and if it's happening at my store then it's happening all over... ppl really need to inform ppl about PS3 and dispel some of the more ridiculous rumors surrounding it... (also ppl need to take their PS3 online if nothing other to get these version updates, since the time 1.8 has come out I have asked every customer who even looks at my PS3 section if they had a PS3 and if they have taken it online to get the new update and I was 0/8... well 1/9 if you include me)

05-27-2007, 06:44 PM	#11
stockstar1138 Banned Member since:Apr 2007	i hear you. i always hear people complain (especially on fb), about stuff. they say sony should fix this, and im just like THEY HAVE DO THE DAMN UPDATES! oh and the one i hate the most is, "The online sucks," have they ever been in an online 40 man deathmatch on resistance, with absoultely no lag. NOPE. but 8 player laggy GeoW is just phenonminal. Basically, it comes down to the fact the deep down the kids want a ps3, but simply can't afford it so they make up FUD on why they wouldn't want one.

05-28-2007, 02:29 AM	#12
Nismobeach Senior Member Member since:Dec 2006	There are a lot of good points here. IMO, I think Sony needs to do a better job of marketing all of the features of the PS3 to the public better. My best friend just expressed interest in purchasing one, and like others he was unaware that the PS3 was backwards compatible with PS2 games (among other things). He also seems to think that like previous gen consoles the PS3 will get old after messing around with it for an hour.

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