Pioneer Kuro vs LED-LCD??

[link_of_hyrule]

Ok, I know you Kuro owners really LOVE your sets, so no biassed opinions please ...

I'm thinking to replace my LCD. The blacks are ok, but HATE the black crush I see when trying to attain these deep black levels. Seems to be a trade-off. (why can't the black levels be specific and isolated to what is supposed to be black instead of making the entire picture black??)

I keep hearing how these Kuro sets are the best of the best and produce deep deep blacks - I have yet to see this. I've been in so many stores and seen so many displays and the LCD displays always look to be sharper, better contrast and have deeper blacks (although with some crushing). The plasma sets look "fuzzier", darker (over-all picture, not the blacks), more dull, and less sharp...black just so-so.

Can someone please tell me why Kuro plasma is supposed to be on top in ratings? How come I'm not seeing what eerybody else is?

Big investment - want to make the right choice.

[funnymanbing]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

Ok, I know you Kuro owners really LOVE your sets, so no biassed opinions please ...

I'm thinking to replace my LCD. The blacks are ok, but HATE the black crush I see when trying to attain these deep black levels. Seems to be a trade-off. (why can't the black levels be specific and isolated to what is supposed to be black instead of making the entire picture black??)

I keep hearing how these Kuro sets are the best of the best and produce deep deep blacks - I have yet to see this. I've been in so many stores and seen so many displays and the LCD displays always look to be sharper, better contrast and have deeper blacks (although with some crushing). The plasma sets look "fuzzier", darker (over-all picture, not the blacks), more dull, and less sharp...black just so-so.

Can someone please tell me why Kuro plasma is supposed to be on top in ratings? How come I'm not seeing what eerybody else is?

Big investment - want to make the right choice.

You can't really base a tv's picture off of store models. You don't know what settings they have their tv's set to, or what cables they're using. In the end though, if LCD's look better to you, just stick to LCD. I will take my Pio any day of the week though.

[saprano]

Bring the set home and decide. stores never have the tv set up right. of course LCD's will look better under all those bright lights.

Take a look at some of these pictures in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920011

[ShockWave]

Never saw this thread before thanks saprano!

[wafi]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

Ok, I know you Kuro owners really LOVE your sets, so no biassed opinions please ...

I'm thinking to replace my LCD. The blacks are ok, but HATE the black crush I see when trying to attain these deep black levels. Seems to be a trade-off. (why can't the black levels be specific and isolated to what is supposed to be black instead of making the entire picture black??)

I keep hearing how these Kuro sets are the best of the best and produce deep deep blacks - I have yet to see this. I've been in so many stores and seen so many displays and the LCD displays always look to be sharper, better contrast and have deeper blacks (although with some crushing). The plasma sets look "fuzzier", darker (over-all picture, not the blacks), more dull, and less sharp...black just so-so.

Can someone please tell me why Kuro plasma is supposed to be on top in ratings? How come I'm not seeing what eerybody else is?

Big investment - want to make the right choice.

I think the pic attached should reveal everything! Not to mention answer your question lol! Nuthin biased just Engadget's 2 cents.

[My_Two_Cents]

You also need to understand that a bright, sharp picture is NOT neccessarily an accurate picture. What you see in a showroom is also NOT what you see at home. Go to a dedicated HT store and view the different models in the proper environment (and set-up properly). The new LED LCDs are good, but they aren't at the level of a Kuro. The Kuro has yet to loose in a professional shoot-out against any current set on the market. Obviously, there is a reason why it is hailed as the best display currently available.

You ask for opinions, you got em, but you really need to properly audition the sets for yourself. Some folks just like the brighter picture of an LCD along with the motion-enhancement crap (IMO). There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you make an informed decision.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

You also need to understand that a bright, sharp picture is NOT neccessarily an accurate picture. What you see in a showroom is also NOT what you see at home. Go to a dedicated HT store and view the different models in the proper environment (and set-up properly). The new LED LCDs are good, but they aren't at the level of a Kuro. The Kuro has yet to loose in a professional shoot-out against any current set on the market. Obviously, there is a reason why it is hailed as the best display currently available.

You ask for opinions, you got em, but you really need to properly audition the sets for yourself. Some folks just like the brighter picture of an LCD along with the motion-enhancement crap (IMO). There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you make an informed decision.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

+1, perfectly said, especially the part about the motion enhancement crap

[Rblu-Dblu]

I'm buying a new pioneer in the next couple weeks. I was at best buy just looking (not buying there). The salesman was trying hard to sell me the new samsung LED lcd tv. He was even going down in price on it and wouldnt budge on the kuro. The LED looked great in the store, but to compare they had the elite 151 hooked up to an analog source. I almost wanted to tell him off.

[Porfie]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

Ok, I know you Kuro owners really LOVE your sets, so no biassed opinions please ...

I'm thinking to replace my LCD. The blacks are ok, but HATE the black crush I see when trying to attain these deep black levels. Seems to be a trade-off. (why can't the black levels be specific and isolated to what is supposed to be black instead of making the entire picture black??)

I keep hearing how these Kuro sets are the best of the best and produce deep deep blacks - I have yet to see this. I've been in so many stores and seen so many displays and the LCD displays always look to be sharper, better contrast and have deeper blacks (although with some crushing). The plasma sets look "fuzzier", darker (over-all picture, not the blacks), more dull, and less sharp...black just so-so.

Can someone please tell me why Kuro plasma is supposed to be on top in ratings? How come I'm not seeing what eerybody else is?

Big investment - want to make the right choice.

I hear you. I went through a similar situation before I got my Pioneer 111fd. When I went to Ultimate Electronics with a friend and told him thats the TV that all HDTVS are measured against. He looked at it and said it doesnt look much different than the SONYS and it seems to reflect a lot of light. I then took him to see the SONY XBR8 which I was also considering, and he could see the overhead lights reflecting on that as well though not as much because of the LCD panel. It was all because the lights just took away from what the Pioneer TV was capable of, not to mention the settings they had it on was the pure mode, which is a great setting but in a electronic store it just made the picture look plain jane and washed out. I was upgrading from a SONY XBR3 which I loved but like you hated the black crush and hated the foggyness effect even on the (LED LCD screens) like the XBR8 that lost color and black unless you were sitting directly in front of it. I took a risk and purchased the Pioneer and I have absolutly NO regrets. When you adjust the settings to YOUR liking thats when this TV just stands out. The pure mode on the Pioneer is as close to reference quality according to videophiles, but im not impressed with that. I like my shows to pop out a bit more like an LCD, but yet not loose the blackness. Thats where this TV sold me! I like the optimum mode which seems to work best to what I like since it automatically adjusts to the rooms lighting. I find this setting to be more inline with the pop you get from LCDS, but with the best blacks you have ever seen and you can see this from any angle without getting that annoying foggy affect of LCDS. Thats my honest opinion. Pioneer to me was better than a Sony XBR8 and Im a huge Sony fanboy, but seeing is believeing and the KURO is the best.

[link_of_hyrule]

Excellent excellent feedback. Thanks so much. Think I might be sold.

[Porfie]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

Excellent excellent feedback. Thanks so much. Think I might be sold.

Your welcome! Get one very soon cause they are going quick and I noticed the prices are starting to increase because there getting harder to find. Let us know what you ultimatly get and enjoy!

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by Rblu-Dblu

I'm buying a new pioneer in the next couple weeks. I was at best buy just looking (not buying there). The salesman was trying hard to sell me the new samsung LED lcd tv. He was even going down in price on it and wouldnt budge on the kuro. The LED looked great in the store, but to compare they had the elite 151 hooked up to an analog source. I almost wanted to tell him off.

Depending on the price he may not have any more to take off of the pioneer. They are dropped pretty cheap right now. By the way whats wrong with buying it at Best Buy. If the price is the lowest you can find, there is nothing wrong with it. Plus if you have any problems within 30 days you have an easy way to return it. People are so against Best Buy because of prices, but there are some benefits to paying a little more sometimes to get the convenience of having the store handy if you need something.

[Rblu-Dblu]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

Depending on the price he may not have any more to take off of the pioneer. They are dropped pretty cheap right now. By the way whats wrong with buying it at Best Buy. If the price is the lowest you can find, there is nothing wrong with it. Plus if you have any problems within 30 days you have an easy way to return it. People are so against Best Buy because of prices, but there are some benefits to paying a little more sometimes to get the convenience of having the store handy if you need something.

I wouldnt mind if it was only a little more. But we're talking about $1000 more.

[sokrman14]

That is quite a bit, see if they'll price match, doesnt hurt to ask. If it is a reputable company that is an authorized retailer, they should match it. That really is up to the manager though.

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

Ok, I know you Kuro owners really LOVE your sets, so no biassed opinions please ...

I'm thinking to replace my LCD. The blacks are ok, but HATE the black crush I see when trying to attain these deep black levels. Seems to be a trade-off. (why can't the black levels be specific and isolated to what is supposed to be black instead of making the entire picture black??)

I keep hearing how these Kuro sets are the best of the best and produce deep deep blacks - I have yet to see this. I've been in so many stores and seen so many displays and the LCD displays always look to be sharper, better contrast and have deeper blacks (although with some crushing). The plasma sets look "fuzzier", darker (over-all picture, not the blacks), more dull, and less sharp...black just so-so.

Can someone please tell me why Kuro plasma is supposed to be on top in ratings? How come I'm not seeing what eerybody else is?

Big investment - want to make the right choice.

There are a lot of televisions out there, but your plasmas have a better nature color. Yes the Kuros are nice and I love mine. Hell the Panasonic G10 is an excellent plasma too. I will say this about the LED, it will be the next phase of television before the OLEDs come out. People love the Pioneer and I rarely hear of any problems with that set. It all depends on what you like, but there is always trial and error!

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by Blove23

There are a lot of televisions out there, but your plasmas have a better nature color. Yes the Kuros are nice and I love mine. Hell the Panasonic G10 is an excellent plasma too. I will say this about the LED, it will be the next phase of television before the OLEDs come out. People love the Pioneer and I rarely hear of any problems with that set. It all depends on what you like, but there is always trial and error!

I agree that it will be the next phase of television, that still doesnt mean it will be the best thing out. Plasma will continue to provide the best picture, even though LCD has been and will continue to dominate it.

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

Excellent excellent feedback. Thanks so much. Think I might be sold.

Pioneer 5020 - 1999
Pioneer Pro-111 - 2499
Pioneer 6020 - 4849
Pioneer Pro- 151 -4999

Those where the prices at Best Buy as of 4-11-09 to 4-15-09. Keep your eyes open because prices keep jumping up and down!

[link_of_hyrule]

For you Pioneer owners out there...much difference between the 5020/6020 models and the Elite models? Would like the 60", but price is a factor, and don't want to compromise quality (and not sure if can afford Elite).

[sokrman14]

I can honestly say I can tell the difference between an elite and a regular pioneer. The Elites utilize their best panels, hand picked electronics, and have more features for the professional installer including more calibration options.

[fuwa]

I was at a Best Buy in the bay area and finally got to see the XBR 8 displaying blu-rays that I have watched numerous times with my daughter on the Kuro Elite. The movies playing were Pirates of the Caribbean and King Kong.

The Sony picture jumps out at you and catchs your attention more than anything else in the room including Kuros and Panasonics. After observing the tvs for awhile it appears to me like I am watching a live performance of Pirates Of The Caribbean on the Sony. It just looks like a live video whereas the Kuro gives me a cinematic effect like I see in a movie theater.

To me the Sony picture was very good although I would have turned it down a bit. I believe it just comes down to if you want a bright video effect or a more natural cinematic picture. Both are excellent TVs.

I prefer the natural pure colors of the Kuro and it is bright enough for me in the pure setting.

I owned a Sony Bravia and I encountered issues with viewing angles, motion in dark scenes (ghosting), greyish blacks, and the backlight changing brightness during the end credits. Surely the new Sony LED is better than what I had. All I know is that with the Kuro Elite I have now, I don't question myself anymore if I have the right TV.