DBZ movies review question

[Kyo28]

I have a question for the reviewers regarding the various DBZ movie reviews. I have been (and still am) a fan of Dragon Ball since it first aired back in 1986 and I must say, the scores attributed by the reviewers have me baffled. I certainly don't want to criticize and think the reviews are indeed very helpful and informative but one particular point has me puzzled:

The Audio score.

I see that for the audio, most movies get rated a 3.5/5. What really surprises me is how a Blu-ray release in this day and age, with the main (original) audio track in Dolby Mono (that's right, it's not even stereo!) can get rated 3.5/5?

Granted, there are also additional DTS HD MA audio tracks in English (one with the original score, one with a US score), but I thought the original audio track of a movie should be the one that weighs in the strongest when giving out points. Look at it this way:
Let's say there's a Lord of the Rings release, with a Spanish DTS HD MA 7.1 track with all the bells and whistles, but the English audio track is a mere DD Mono track. I seriously doubt any reviewer would give such a release a 3.5 audio mark. Just because the original langauge is not English doesn't take away from the fact the audio of the main, original language is lackluster (and I'm still being kind with the word lackluster).

It seems to me like they just copy-pasted the audio track from the Japanese movie DVD's:
http://www.toei-video.co.jp/DVD/sp21/dragonball.html
Granted, the source material doesn't give them much to work with, but one would think they would at least put some effort in to giving the audio a bit of a spacial effect, even if it's just adding stereo effects to some sound effects.

I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much or some might think I'm too much of a 'purist' for taking the original audio track as the main point of reference, but I can't help but feel they dropped the ball in the audio department.

Again, certainly not trying to criticize the reviewers. You guys do an excellent job. I just wanted to know how in such cases the marks are attributed and if the same would be valid had the original language been English and offered a DD Mono track.

[jw]

That would be Dustin, I am not sure how much time he spends on the forums however you can shoot him a PM and I am sure he will reply
https://forum.blu-ray.com/member.php?u=42134

(I dont want you to think he ignored ya)

[kenobi3]

i alos have a question, is the DBZ movies region free?

[kndy]

The Dragon Ball Z films with the English dub tend to have good directional when it comes to audio and so, many of the later DBZ films sound really good. But I can't say so much about the Japanese track.

I grew up watching the DBZ stuff from Japan and like yourself, I would love to have better audio versions but this is not solely just DBZ but for many titles.

Not sure about the reviewer on blu-ray.com but even when I did my reviews for the DBZ film blu-rays, I put more stock into the English versions because I know that for many anime releases non-Bandai related, they are not going to restore the audio for older anime.

With that being said, as a guy who has been reviewing anime since 1993, you know as well that the Japanese sub vs. dub debate has been ongoing for many years. When we reviewed VHS and LD's back then, we knew that many of the people who viewed anime at the time watched it in Japanese. Even back during the old anime con years of clubs and early years of anime cons, we'd watch and review the Japanese-only (no sub) version.

But times have changed, those who do purchase anime like watching their anime via English dubs. While those who appreciate the original Japanese language version are more apt to downloading fan subs or watching the official industry releases (like the "Naruto Shippuuden" on hulu and now "One Piece").

Second, where Bandai in Japan had spent a good amount of money with the work they did on the Akira Blu-ray release, a lot of the anime industry and what they license put their efforts into the dub release. And if you're going to invest that much into an anime, you got to make sure people are buying it. Where "Akira" is appreciated by non-hardcore anime fans, as you probably know, the anime industry is not exactly doing that well right now. Even in Japan, where Blu-ray sales are low, would investing in re-recording the films be worth the investment?

But I can understand your position. I would love to have classic anime digitally remastered with great picture quality and audio quality. Heck, I'm hoping at Anime Expo we will hear some exciting announcements of classic anime like MS Gundam (the UC films) released on Blu. But because they are quite old, I'm not expect them to bring back all the anime voice talent like they did with the Gunbuster film.

Nor do I expect too much of an audio upgrade with the original Japanese tracks from classic anime but I do expect a bit more for the English audio version which the anime companies in the US have a bit more control.

[SlmShdy1]

I, for one, choose to watch DBZ with the original Japanese track because I want a proper translation. I can't speak or understand Japanese so I read the subs (from what I've read, FUNimation hired an excellent translator to correct some of the older subs). I can deal with the poor audio as long as I'm getting a proper translation. I see your point about the audio score but how good can a mono track really get? Maybe the reviewer is keeping that in mind.

[Kyo28]

Originally Posted by kndy

The Dragon Ball Z films with the English dub tend to have good directional when it comes to audio and so, many of the later DBZ films sound really good. But I can't say so much about the Japanese track.

I grew up watching the DBZ stuff from Japan and like yourself, I would love to have better audio versions but this is not solely just DBZ but for many titles.

Not sure about the reviewer on blu-ray.com but even when I did my reviews for the DBZ film blu-rays, I put more stock into the English versions because I know that for many anime releases non-Bandai related, they are not going to restore the audio for older anime.

With that being said, as a guy who has been reviewing anime since 1993, you know as well that the Japanese sub vs. dub debate has been ongoing for many years. When we reviewed VHS and LD's back then, we knew that many of the people who viewed anime at the time watched it in Japanese. Even back during the old anime con years of clubs and early years of anime cons, we'd watch and review the Japanese-only (no sub) version.

But times have changed, those who do purchase anime like watching their anime via English dubs. While those who appreciate the original Japanese language version are more apt to downloading fan subs or watching the official industry releases (like the "Naruto Shippuuden" on hulu and now "One Piece").

Second, where Bandai in Japan had spent a good amount of money with the work they did on the Akira Blu-ray release, a lot of the anime industry and what they license put their efforts into the dub release. And if you're going to invest that much into an anime, you got to make sure people are buying it. Where "Akira" is appreciated by non-hardcore anime fans, as you probably know, the anime industry is not exactly doing that well right now. Even in Japan, where Blu-ray sales are low, would investing in re-recording the films be worth the investment?

But I can understand your position. I would love to have classic anime digitally remastered with great picture quality and audio quality. Heck, I'm hoping at Anime Expo we will hear some exciting announcements of classic anime like MS Gundam (the UC films) released on Blu. But because they are quite old, I'm not expect them to bring back all the anime voice talent like they did with the Gunbuster film.

Nor do I expect too much of an audio upgrade with the original Japanese tracks from classic anime but I do expect a bit more for the English audio version which the anime companies in the US have a bit more control.

Thanks. This made for an interesting read and you make some very good points, especially from the economic side of things.

Sigh, I guess I should get used to being a minority in watching anime in it's original language. In fact, in the DVD days, I never bought US releases, just Japanese releases. Now that I have a region A BD player, I thought I might as well buy US releases of Anime, as they are cheaper than their Japanese counterparts (not to mention some aren't released in Japan yet, like the DBZ movies).

To my dismay, I came to the hard realization that:
1) US releases tend to completely neglect the Japanese audio tracks
2) title screens, openings and endings are often edited (removal of Japanese text and replaced with US text, even in the credits where US voice actors are credited before the Japanese voice actors )

I guess it all comes down to this for me now: either shell out more money for the Japanese release and get it 'as it should be' or save out quite some money but get a handicapped US version.

For the DBZ movies I'm really sitting on the fence as I'm sure later down the road (perhaps a lot later), we'll see a more expensive Japanese release of these movies, especially if Dragon Ball Kai gets good viewer ratings. Question is if they'll invest in a better Japanese audio track or not as well as extra's or manual cleaning up of the images.

Decisions, decisions ...

[shaft4]

Originally Posted by Kyo28

I have a question for the reviewers regarding the various DBZ movie reviews. I have been (and still am) a fan of Dragon Ball since it first aired back in 1986 and I must say, the scores attributed by the reviewers have me baffled. I certainly don't want to criticize and think the reviews are indeed very helpful and informative but one particular point has me puzzled:

The Audio score.

I see that for the audio, most movies get rated a 3.5/5. What really surprises me is how a Blu-ray release in this day and age, with the main (original) audio track in Dolby Mono (that's right, it's not even stereo!) can get rated 3.5/5?

Granted, there are also additional DTS HD MA audio tracks in English (one with the original score, one with a US score), but I thought the original audio track of a movie should be the one that weighs in the strongest when giving out points. Look at it this way:
Let's say there's a Lord of the Rings release, with a Spanish DTS HD MA 7.1 track with all the bells and whistles, but the English audio track is a mere DD Mono track. I seriously doubt any reviewer would give such a release a 3.5 audio mark. Just because the original langauge is not English doesn't take away from the fact the audio of the main, original language is lackluster (and I'm still being kind with the word lackluster).

It seems to me like they just copy-pasted the audio track from the Japanese movie DVD's:
http://www.toei-video.co.jp/DVD/sp21/dragonball.html
Granted, the source material doesn't give them much to work with, but one would think they would at least put some effort in to giving the audio a bit of a spacial effect, even if it's just adding stereo effects to some sound effects.

I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much or some might think I'm too much of a 'purist' for taking the original audio track as the main point of reference, but I can't help but feel they dropped the ball in the audio department.

Again, certainly not trying to criticize the reviewers. You guys do an excellent job. I just wanted to know how in such cases the marks are attributed and if the same would be valid had the original language been English and offered a DD Mono track.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Regarding the reviews I've done on the DBZ titles, I can fully appreciate your concerns. Anytime I'm given a choice, I watch foreign language films (including anime) in the native language. In the case of DBZ titles, Funimation has chosen to only release a mono version of the original track, but decided to put a nice level of effort into the English dubbed versions. Each viewer will have a different preference in the audio options, so I try to review the highest quality track in-depth, as well as mention the merits of the lesser quality tracks (which happen to be the original language on these titles).

I agree with your assessment of the lackluster Japanese track on the DBZ titles, and I'd recommend you avoid these releases if the English dub isn't your cup of tea. DBZ is a series I've only seen in English, so I tend to make an exception to my native-language preference where the DBZ Blu-ray titles are concerned. If Funimation was releasing these titles in their current form for a Japanese release, I'd second your Lord of the Rings example. But since these are US release titles, I don't feel it would be appropriate restrict the review solely to the merits of the Japanese track.

I hope you continue to provide feedback anytime you see something in my reviews that your concerned with, and all of us appreciate your kind words regarding the reviews on the site.

Dustin

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by kenobi3

i alos have a question, is the DBZ movies region free?

Nope only Region A to America, Canada, Japan, and anything else in the Region A area.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Kyo28

Thanks. This made for an interesting read and you make some very good points, especially from the economic side of things.

Sigh, I guess I should get used to being a minority in watching anime in it's original language. In fact, in the DVD days, I never bought US releases, just Japanese releases. Now that I have a region A BD player, I thought I might as well buy US releases of Anime, as they are cheaper than their Japanese counterparts (not to mention some aren't released in Japan yet, like the DBZ movies).

To my dismay, I came to the hard realization that:
1) US releases tend to completely neglect the Japanese audio tracks
2) title screens, openings and endings are often edited (removal of Japanese text and replaced with US text, even in the credits where US voice actors are credited before the Japanese voice actors )

I guess it all comes down to this for me now: either shell out more money for the Japanese release and get it 'as it should be' or save out quite some money but get a handicapped US version.

For the DBZ movies I'm really sitting on the fence as I'm sure later down the road (perhaps a lot later), we'll see a more expensive Japanese release of these movies, especially if Dragon Ball Kai gets good viewer ratings. Question is if they'll invest in a better Japanese audio track or not as well as extra's or manual cleaning up of the images.

Decisions, decisions ...

Well then you would like Geneon because on some of my dvds from Geneon they have the English credits at the very end of the closing song for the actors, and sometimes they even put the Japanese credits only and then on the Main Menu section they sometimes either put them there with the translation in text only9(no video) or there are times when they have the Japanese credits covering the whole opening and closing songs and then after each episode ends they will have the translation credits video. Like I have Clannad on dvd with 12 episodes on a 2 disc set which is from a company called Sentai(really ADV Films) and you would like the fact that since ADV's company lost a lot of their licenses and so which means they don't have much money right now. So, when they brought over Clannad to America they didn't even have money to dub it at all since Clannad is a 48 episode series which is 2 seasons plus there's even a movie. Plus, Clannad has the Japanese credits for both opening and closing songs and then a translation English credits on what that Japanese means so which means the original credits were never tampered with.

As for DBZ you got to realize because of Cartoon Network's Toonami block a lot of Americans watched the whole DBZ series in English dub including the 20+ reruns. Toonami is what got a lot of Americans into English dub voice acting on anime because once you have seen Toonami every single night like I did when I was a kid you just get used to the English voice acting. But thing is Funimation probably realizes that most Americans probably realize that. Also there is also the fact that the DBZ Blu-rays not only contain 1 English dub track in DolbyTrueHD audio but 2.