Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[NL197]

Turning back to the Q&A nature of the thread, is there any word on what new extras will be on the CSI season 1 Blu-ray out May 12?

[Jeff Kleist]

I've seen the film, and I have been watching TOS for 16 years, so probably not as long as some of you, but even with the spoiler Mr. Kleist put out the story works, s

It doesn't matter if it works. It's being called Star Trek so it has to exist in the larger community. There is no vacuum

I'm a pretty big fan and I wasn't aware of any "you can't see a Tholian" rule.

It was a running gag on DS9, and pretty sure it was on TOS as well. They never showed the Tholian, but discussed him often "I had dinner with the Tholian ambassador" etc etc. It was like the Furlings in SG-1, it was an unwritten rule among the staff that you'd never see them. Of course, then everyone who cared about that rule split

If what you mean that the Gorn didn't look like a cheesy man-in-a-suit then they succeeded brilliantly.

It bore almost no resemblence to the creature in TOS. Make it more realistic sure. Bad CG creature that looks completely differentv and just as bad in its own way, no

Absolutely valid point on Voyager's squandered potential. I love the Videans as well, and was sorry to see them go, and sorrier they didn't harvest Kes and Neelix, slowly

Turning back to the Q&A nature of the thread, is there any word on what new extras will be on the CSI season 1 Blu-ray out May 12?

They haven't listed any yet, but I'll let you know when it shows up

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by NL197

I loved the first season, and loved most of seasons 2 and 3.
Ron Moore temporarily joined the show in season 6 after DS9 ended, only he never fit in there because of Braga and Joe Menosky. He also raised a critical point most people don't realize:

When the show was being developed, the creators were sticking to a continuity that would force the writers to be creative with the ongoing journey home. That's why the first episode stranded them without a full crew, limited supplies of food, energy, weapons and shuttles.

While the food idea was maintained for a while with Neelix serving as a chef, and they introduced the idea of some sort of credits for replicated food, they continuously hit the reset button on most other areas, like endless weapon supplies and shuttles, a larger crew than originally shown, and a spotless ship every episode despite the massive battles and non-conflict-based damage they suffered.

They betrayed those original ideas by pressing that reset too many times.

I stuck with Voyager until the bitter end (which was equal to washing dishes - had to do it but didn't like it at all) and I felt they made their biggest mistake by having them "get home" in the last episode, because it robbed them the opportunity to really explore life after the Delta Quadrant, living in a post-Dominion War federation.

-The remaining Maquis-turned-Starfleet officers...what would have happened to them after getting back? How would they adjust? Everyone they knew was wiped out by the Dominion. Would Starfleet give them all a pass for being a part of the Voyager crew?

-How would Seven of Nine adjust to being home on Earth? Would she attempt to find her living relatives if there were any left? What about any potential bias against her for being a reformed Borg?

-Janeway left behind a husband who eventually moved on without her...what about that?

-Wildman's husband was on Deep Space Nine - did he survive all those battles there? Will he see his daughter?

-Will the Doctor be considered a technological breakthrough because of how evolved he became and live as a "real" person?

-What would become of Tom and B'Elanna? Leave the service and raise a family or something?

-Would Harry finally get promoted and maybe get a chance to rip off Quark?

-What about the surviving Equinox crew? Or the Borg children that stayed aboard?

My point is, I did care about those characters, and it was a damn shame that they didn't bring them back earlier because they could have done so much and gave a lot more meaning to the series after being away for so long. Instead it was "and in the end, they got home....that's it"

But that's all over and done with anyway.

I agree about the reset button. It was used WAYYYY too often. Thats what made DS9 so great is that they made DAMN sure the reset button could never be used, because it was a space station and they couldnt leave the problems at Warp 9.

Overall I liked Voyager and felt that it had more good moments than bad moments, but the Cazon SUCKED.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

It was a running gag on DS9, and pretty sure it was on TOS as well. They never showed the Tholian, but discussed him often "I had dinner with the Tholian ambassador" etc etc. It was like the Furlings in SG-1, it was an unwritten rule among the staff that you'd never see them. Of course, then everyone who cared about that rule split

That wasn't the Tholians, it was the Breen that was the running joke on DS9, to the point that Weyoun once remarked that they didn't need those suits.

The only time you saw or heard about the Tholians on TOS was "The Tholian Web". TNG made a reference that Riker's father was injured in a conflict with them. Nemesis had the Tholian Ambassador reference, by Senator Tau'lara, as she leaves the device behind at the start of the film.

Originally Posted by merrick97

I agree about the reset button. It was used WAYYYY too often. Thats what made DS9 so great is that they made DAMN sure the reset button could never be used, because it was a space station and they couldnt leave the problems at Warp 9.

Overall I liked Voyager and felt that it had more good moments than bad moments, but the Cazon SUCKED.

Kazon.

DS9 hit the reset button a couple times, things were status quo all to often in the first couple seasons. When they introduced the Dominion is when things started getting shaken up.

[Jeff Kleist]

That wasn't the Tholians, it was the Breen that was the running joke on DS9, to the point that Weyoun once remarked that they didn't need those suits.

Tholians were as well. Trust me, unwritten rule for virtually the entire run. A big part of it was of course that they couldn't afford a Tholian The Breen were more of a mystery than a joke, other than the "what are they actually saying" thing

DS9 hit the reset button a couple times, things were status quo all to often in the first couple seasons. When they introduced the Dominion is when things started getting shaken up.

Rick Berman is the king of the reset button, when he stopped caring about DS9 and left active supervisory duties to go do Voyager, he packed it up and took it with him, leaving much better showrunners behind. They stopped using it, except for the episode where O'Brian's 20 year prison sentence in his mind became all better

[NL197]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

They haven't listed any yet, but I'll let you know when it shows up

Thank you sir. I'm itching to see that very big AR mistake of the DVD get corrected with the BD and then some....hoping for a few retrospective looks at how the show started 9 years ago, and the supposed extended pilot.


This was the biggest running gag on DS9:



and how he never stops talking.

[Jeff Kleist]

And Captain Boday's transparent skull

Let's face it, they had a lot of them, part of what made the show so rich

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Tholians were as well. Trust me, unwritten rule for virtually the entire run. A big part of it was of course that they couldn't afford a Tholian The Breen were more of a mystery than a joke, other than the "what are they actually saying" thing

Nope!

This is a Breen:

The Breen were first seen onscreen in the Deep Space Nine "Indiscretion", a 1996 fourth season Deep Space Nine episode, in which they were depicted as running a mining facility from which Gul Dukat and Major Kira rescued Dukat's daughter, Tora Ziyal. According to DS9 writer/producer Robert Hewitt Wolfe, after having previously been treated as red herrings since their first mention on Next Generation, and as a running joke by the production staff because "they were these people who were out there who were dangerous but were never really responsible for any of the trouble going on", they would finally be used as the villains in an episode. Their true appearance would be concealed beneath masks, according to writer/producer Ira Steven Behr, because "I wasn't really in the mood to come up with a new alien race. So I said, 'Let's not see them. Let's just put them in costume because they normally live in the cold.'"

I've seen every DS9 at least 4 times BTW. Really.

They've mentioned the Tholians a few times on DS9, but never as a joke.

The Tholians in Enterprise actually are the same as they appeared on TOS, except there's no bluescreen spill and you see their legs:

TOS:


ENT:

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

The Brownie camera was invented by George Eastman, and was one of the first ways photography got into the hands of the common person. The first Brownie cameras were cheap cameras that came pre-loaded with film, and you mailed them back to Eastman Kodak for developing. Brownie cameras and others like them can be used as light exposure meters to help get a film look.

There is also a modern patent (~ 2001-2003) for Brownie film, which is a type of film that is "wound about a spool such that a leader covers outside. A filmstrip has first and second lateral side portions. Upon manufacturing the filmstrip, film information is printed as latent images in the first lateral side portion. The first lateral side portion comes to upper side of the filmstrip when the filmstrip is pulled from the spool to leftward, viewed from a base surface side of the filmstrip. A data exposure head of the camera imprints photographic information as individual printing patterns." Not sure if that's anything to do with the other meaning.

The term (“brownie”) essentially pays homage to the old George Eastman still camera of that period which you have duly described in your first paragraph above but, beyond that, the similarity ends.

In other words, if someone on the set yells out to “Go get a brownie”, they are not referring to the fact that somebody should requisition a Kodak brownie camera (or a certain type of film, for that matter) for the shoot.

Sorry to break the current Trek vibe, carry on.

P.S.
To the person that PM'ed me his answer as to what C-47's are, no, I was
not referring to the aircraft seen at the beginning of the second episode of Band Of Brothers.

You can actually pick up a handful of them on the cheap at Wal*Mart or some such place I reckon.

[Jeff Kleist]

as I said Peter, there are many running gags throughout the series. They still weren't going to show a Tholian

[Batman1980]

I actually like DS9 SO MUCH that if I were going to put a ST show in my top 10, that would be the one. I'm actually waiting to see how much the series will cost on Blu-Ray before I decide whether or not to get it on DVD.

[Jeff Kleist]

Buy it on DVD. You've got a very long wait, that I'd put at 80/20 is closer to 10 years if ever (and I'd put it on 60/40 or better on the never). That is unless they get a new TV channel sugar daddy to pay for it (unlikely, the only shows worth anything in repeats are TOS (already done) and TNG.

I'll be first in line with pompoms if I'm wrong, But the DVD sales numbers on TNG and TOS are the only ones that justify it. Enterprise may eventually hit Blu simply by virtue of them already having HD post done on it and they just have to throw the tapes in the encoder.

When they remaster something like Babylon 5, or even a movie, they almost always have to start from scratch on the FX work. Why? Because the software on the render farm literally changes from week to week, and even something you did 2 months back may not render correctly because of a tweak made to the engine. The time spent finding what's broken and what's not is in many way just as expensive as a do-over.

The good thing is that the film-based elements that were shot, ships at warp, beauty shots of DS9 and such can easily be scanned and/or recreated in HD. Phaser hits, transporters, all need to be redone, matte paintings re-scanned (who knows after the auction/purge of the archive how many of these are still around?)

I'd love for someone to show up with $50 million to put DS9 in HD. I'd really love an IMAX redo of those last 3-4 episodes Mmmmm, Defiant battling in 8k...................

[Batman1980]

Well thanks for the heads-up, still not in a hurry to get it yet, $300+ is a lot to invest, especially for a show on DVD.

[Jeff Kleist]

Well, if you love it, just start picking up a season a month. It was really cool for me actually, right before my local UHF station lost the DS9 license they showed the entire show, straight through, all original edits with no cuts at 4AM every weekday morning. So over the course of about 8 months I watched an episode a day. It was pretty special to have that slow progression

Since then I got the DVDs and I run them through about once a year. Totally worth the investment. If you play your cards right you can get them as low as $40 a season

[NL197]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Since then I got the DVDs and I run them through about once a year. Totally worth the investment. If you play your cards right you can get them as low as $40 a season

I'm about halfway through season 6. Took a break from it to immerse myself in some Lorne-centric ANGEL episodes as tribute to the recently passed Andy Hallett.

I paid about $400 Canadian for the DS9 complete series boxset, which I bought in early 2006.

The only drawback to having that is I missed out on those exclusive bonus discs. I wish I could see them, but not much I can do about that.

At the time, the individual sets were still around a shockingly high $120 or so per season, so I certainly don't envy those who paid over $1200 or so per Trek series.....OUCH.

With the $400 price tag, I worked it out to roughly equal my 5 ANGEL boxsets with two additional Buffy sets added ( to equal 7 seasons of DS9) that I bought as they were released.

About those, I've seen both ANGEL and Buffy in single DVD-sized transparent cases now at Walmart, yet another refinement after the silmcase reissues. I'm still stuck with the same bulky digipaks. Great artwork, but damn inconvenient.

So having my two all-time favorite series on DVD (ANGEL and DS9) means that anything else is just icing on the cake.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The good thing is that the film-based elements that were shot, ships at warp, beauty shots of DS9 and such can easily be scanned and/or recreated in HD. Phaser hits, transporters, all need to be redone, matte paintings re-scanned (who knows after the auction/purge of the archive how many of these are still around?)

I'd love for someone to show up with $50 million to put DS9 in HD. I'd really love an IMAX redo of those last 3-4 episodes Mmmmm, Defiant battling in 8k...................

After the first couple episodes of the 6th season, DS9 went pretty much entirely CG for VFX work. Those exciting battles from episodes like Sacrifice of Angels and Tears of the Prophets (as well as the finale) would all need to be re-rendered. Trivia: much of the crew went on to the VFX crew of the new BSG.

You would also need to re-edit the shows, since all editing was done (as was TNG and VOY) on digital video. The shows themselves were shot with 35MM Panavision cameras. Who knows if all that raw footage still exists?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Nope!

This is a Breen:

Plus the Breen are likely a joke refrence to Boushh from Return of the Jedi.

[Jeff Kleist]

After the first couple episodes of the 6th season, DS9 went pretty much entirely CG for VFX work. Those exciting battles from episodes like Sacrifice of Angels and Tears of the Prophets (as well as the finale) would all need to be re-rendered. Trivia: much of the crew went on to the VFX crew of the new BSG.

NEW FX yes, but they still had all the stock shots and plates, that's what I was referring to

You would also need to re-edit the shows, since all editing was done (as was TNG and VOY) on digital video. The shows themselves were shot with 35MM Panavision cameras. Who knows if all that raw footage still exists?

As far as I know they have it, they purged the prop/set closet, not that stuff

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

When they remaster something like Babylon 5, or even a movie, they almost always have to start from scratch on the FX work. Why? Because the software on the render farm literally changes from week to week, and even something you did 2 months back may not render correctly because of a tweak made to the engine. The time spent finding what's broken and what's not is in many way just as expensive as a do-over.

I really wish I could find some good blackmail material on the right people to get this done. My DVD's are almost painful to watch.

[scrumptious]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Buy it on DVD. You've got a very long wait, that I'd put at 80/20 is closer to 10 years if ever (and I'd put it on 60/40 or better on the never). That is unless they get a new TV channel sugar daddy to pay for it (unlikely, the only shows worth anything in repeats are TOS (already done) and TNG.

I'll be first in line with pompoms if I'm wrong, But the DVD sales numbers on TNG and TOS are the only ones that justify it. Enterprise may eventually hit Blu simply by virtue of them already having HD post done on it and they just have to throw the tapes in the encoder.

When they remaster something like Babylon 5, or even a movie, they almost always have to start from scratch on the FX work. Why? Because the software on the render farm literally changes from week to week, and even something you did 2 months back may not render correctly because of a tweak made to the engine. The time spent finding what's broken and what's not is in many way just as expensive as a do-over.

The good thing is that the film-based elements that were shot, ships at warp, beauty shots of DS9 and such can easily be scanned and/or recreated in HD. Phaser hits, transporters, all need to be redone, matte paintings re-scanned (who knows after the auction/purge of the archive how many of these are still around?)

I'd love for someone to show up with $50 million to put DS9 in HD. I'd really love an IMAX redo of those last 3-4 episodes Mmmmm, Defiant battling in 8k...................

I wonder if in 10 years, technology will advance making it cheaper to do all that stuff that is now costly. I just hope that my favorite shows: Freaks & Geeks, Babylon 5, The Untouchables (not even released on VHS!) still have enough of a fan base in 10 years for it to be profitable to produce it. Maybe the BDA could subsidize it.

Thousands ot tens of thousands of man hours were probably spent on the Babylon 5 Freespace 2 total conversion mod -- all without pay by fans. Why couldn't a company recruit these volunteers to help them with these shows?